Hades

Any reputation system will have to be player made, that’s the beauty of a player driven game. Perhaps you personally could found an institution for such a thing? And then you could potentially use privileges to allow/disallow people from using market terminals you own, and the like. By terminals you own, I mean organizations who abide by your reputation system. Effectively making the safezone useless for them except for temporary respite. Of course it’s likely people will have a safe market hub for all, as more demand is more profit. Have to love players driven games. No watered down experience here, we get the full tap

Looks like the discoverable zones will not be on planet surfaces in the current plan. They will be found on some moons, and the arkship of course This plan just came out a few days ago on the devblog

An all encompassing organization can lead to some of the best experiences in these kinds of games. You end up linking in arms with people you’d never expect. Good luck rhino

All of the above.

Considering they’ve had the same mindset for over two years now, I’d say it’s pretty likely that the game will be more or less as defined in the update and the Kickstarter. NQ knows what game they want to build, and I’m 100% behind it. If you’re not, that’s okay... that’s how development usually works out. I wanted to love face of mankind fall of the dominion, but there were a good amount of changes I did not support. However, my vision wasn’t being created... it was the devs. Turned out being fun for the year or so it lasted. You can still enjoy DU, you’ll just have to be careful about it. An important thing to note is that currency is always safe.

Very true, I always assumed loans would be done by a seedy character who will chop your arm off if you miss a payment. If it all, that is Would be nice if a reputable person created a bank to make it a bit... less harsh

Aren’t banks kind of a moot point considering currency doesn’t drop on death? I always wanted banks to be a thing, as it introduces bank heists and the like, but the fact that you retain currency on death takes away the need for a bank. It also means you don’t have to put much thought into how much currency you bring on a new venture. Which is all well and good, it’s also a nice safety feature knowing your currency is always safe.

No, I actually do (kind of remember that) but I don’t think it was an answer to what you call “gankers and griefers”. I took it to mean that if organizations can’t provide stability, they’ll try and figure something out. Not by direct interference but implementing systems (territory control units with certain privileges or something) to help provide stability and get things moving. Anyway, I suppose it’s interpretation. Once again, something that will hopefully be clarified by the blog coming up. If NQ gets involved because a few gankers are rampant, we will have a dull game indeed. I’ll wait for the blog and make a decision after that.

Fair, I’ve told myself to leave this thread multitudes of times. Much will be clarified in the devblog, I just hope it matches the vision of the Kickstarter and subsequent videos/blogs. And I imagine it will, NQ hasn’t bent their will to loud voices yet (mine included).

I’d argue that if NQ said explicitly that something is going to be in game, arguing about it is pointless or invalid. Buzzwords? Buzzwords, lmao. Someone hasn’t watched any of the Kickstarter videos, devblogs, or read the Kickstarter page. Come on now. If it’s a buzzword, it was created by NQ. Thankfully a devblog will be coming out soon on the issue. Hopefully that will dispel some of this misinformation you have. This is all correct. Mind pointing me in that direction? I’m thinking you either took something out of context, or NQ misspoke. All of the videos, blogs, and discussions point in the opposite direction.

Honestly just seems like DU isn’t right for you. NQ has been upfront from the start, DU is going to be hard. Especially if you don’t have a major organization to protect you. You can run into conflict, if that turns you off... DU isn’t right for you unfortunately. Really not sure how you missed that, it’s all over the place. DU is not going to be easy... and that both excites and frightens me (in a good way). Normally I’m not a big org player, so I’m excited to find a place in DU, keeping on the down low of course

The less emergent part rears it's head when you realize hostile takeover is practically impossible. If it takes an entire fleets ammo supply to destroy a few ships, you're not going to be taking over a city. In order to receive tangible effects on whether or not PvP occurs you need to have extremes. Take an arena game for example. Say the staked bid to enter was 1,000 (but it takes around 10 minutes to farm 10,000). If they upped the bid to 1,500... the same amount of people will probably enter the arena. If you move the stake to 100,000... far fewer will join. Similarly, let's take Face of Mankind for example (this was a game I was active in). It is important to note that I was part of the Colinization and Mining Guild for the majority of my gameplay. This means I created armor, ammo, weapons etc. Now, there were markets with high security where everyone who was in good standing with LED (the player ran law enforcement agency) were able to trade. This basically means you didn't run around killing and stealing. At these markets I would have to sell at market price. However, on the outer reaches (uncontrolled by LED) I could sell ammo for double if not triple the amount as on Brooklyn or NYC. These rogue players did not have an issue spending a little more for ammo, as it truly was minuscule in the end. Was it a nuisance for these players? Maybe... but I can tell you it would be more of a nuisance in DU for new players than for vets who are into thieving. In FOM, at least the new players had an option of buying market price at a high sec area... DU doesn't have that option. Well, I suppose it could... if the players implemented such a system.

It really does impact emergent gameplay. Ammo isn’t going to be expensive to create, that would cause an uproar both from people now... and months after launch new players will be wondering why they could create such a beautiful ship but can’t defend it, since ammo is so expensive. I can actually picture it now... poor chap created his ship but a mob of thug rats are punching the juice out of his ship. It’s a shame he can’t just shoot them all.

I’d argue the PvP is going to be far more cut throat in the early days. It will also be much more imperative that organizations have the protection they need to build cities, institutions, and order. Not sure how that’s insulting, but I’m sorry if I offended. Perhaps I should have just said “you’re throwing things out and hoping they stick” and “you are entirely biased from your fear of PvP”. You can (and probably will) encounter PvP outside of safezones. You are entirely in the hands of other players, and the defenses (and skill) you employ. I might have personal bias, but I’m not really a PvPer, so I’m not sure where that would come from. I just happen to know what I backed. Yes, it really is. You have to build in order to have a ship... in order to PvP. Of course you have the option of just buying a ship... but you also just have the option of buying protection from mercs. It’s LITERALLY the same thing. Those options are only there if you don’t want to go to a safe zone. Not really sure what you’re arguing, you could also just leave your base (outside of a safe zone) in the complete open. That’s your prerogative. Just like a pvper has the option of building a box, attaching an engine... and maybe a laser to it.

No, it’s definitely not landmark in space... and thank all for that... or we’d have a dead game in a year. Landmark did building really well, but there wasn’t enough of a game there. They realized this and tried implementing PvE combat and mobs IIRC? Didn’t work obviously. They also tried implementing non-emergent PvP arenas or something as well right? DU isn’t just building, and that’s what many must realize. If you keep saying it’s Landmark in space, people will believe it. And that’s a misrepresentation of the game.

@Felonu That’s pretty interesting because NQ has a pretty straightforward definition of Player driven and emergent gameplay. Literally 4th bullet point of the Kickstarter. This isn’t even considering the videos and other avenues of communication they have given on the topic. “Emergent gameplay: economy, trade, territories, politics and warfare are all player-driven. Both PvP and non-PvP will be possible.” Notice that they explicitly mention PvP and non-PvP as both being player driven. This is solidified in dev diaries and blogs if you sift through them.

I think super understands that the game’s core is emergent and player driven. Which means there won’t be some arbitrary feature in place to make combat more difficult than building. If you want something protected, you have to protect it. Whether through your means, or riding off the coat tails of others. Now something might be more difficult to destroy because it’s player driven. Such as someone wedging a base in between a canyon or something. This isn’t landmark in space, and I do think some people think it is... which is a problem, and it will be rectified quickly upon release haha. It won’t take hours to destroy a standard single seater ship, it won’t be more costly to make bullets than it is to make a ship. And there certainly won’t be a NQ built punishment system in place. Defenses are going to be costly, weaponry is going to be costly. If it’s any other way, we have a dull game on our hands and it goes against the vision brought out in Kickstarter videos

Building isn’t the end all be all either, that’s the point. It’s a sandbox MMO. If they change that direction, I honestly want out. Player driven is the end all be all of the game, that’s been clear from the start.

I told myself I was done with this thread, but it honestly seems like some of you don’t know what you backed. Player directed is the end all be all of DU. Imagine being able to build a prison, agreed upon by the larger corporations. Now sure, a purp could hop on an alt.. but when that one ends in prison? They’ll have to wait about 24 hours or whatever is agreed upon. Player. Driven.

Twitch based? Popular? Not necessarily. Many people PREFER tab target and similar styled games. NQ never planned on implementing twitch features, so I’m not sure how they could have been sacrificed? Combat usually comes later in a sandbox game, it’s just how the development works. You create the world, and then you create the gameplay features of the world. Even Camelot unchained (the epitome of a PvP MMO) implemented voxel building before combat. Seems like you’re just throwing things out and hoping they stick. It also seems like you’re using a shortsighted view. Simply from your fear of PvP and conflict. So let’s get a few things straight. A city owner (organization, coalition whatever) wants to keep their city limits and the outer reaches safe. Why? If traders are downed coming to your city every time, they’ll stop coming. If they stop coming, your city tanks. Now, you’d probably want to pay a security corp to protect these entrances to your planet/city. If a distress signal goes off, the paid protection (or internal) attempts to intercept. Every time an alt is killed, that’s resources drained. Player driven, that’s what DU is... and that’s what DU will always be. This worked in Face of Mankind, EVE doesn’t really have a comparison afaik... as trade is done in high sec areas? Can’t remember. PvP is not possible in safe zones. PvP is possible outside of safezones. What this entails is dictated by the players, that is NQs vision. If they go back on that, it’s no longer the project put forth by the Kickstarter. I’d personally want a refund, as it’s not what I backed. This is what I backed: “Emergent gameplay is one of the key aspects of Dual Universe. In Dual Universe "emergent gameplay" means that the players are given the power to create and direct the story, major events, and content of the game universe. All of the mechanics in Dual Universe are specifically designing to give the players as much freedom as possible, which produces a game world that is entirely run and managed by the players and their choices.” NQ has alluded that the beginning stages of DU is going to be TOUGH. There’s no groundwork laid out, organizations will attempt to build stability and others will want that stability for themselves. This is going to be increasingly tough for the single/small group player as there’s no protection outside of safezones. That’s not going to change.

DU is a sandbox MMO, not a building MMO, and most definitely not a MMO where building is some primary aspect whether implicit or not.

There will also be safezones you can find throughout the universe, rare of course.

At this point: we’ll just see. PvP won’t be a ridiculous hard venture, nor will it cost more than defenses. Building has always been the major capital resource sink and always will be. Conflict will be the major asset resource sink. At this point: Seems like people are taking small snippets and misconstruing it to feed their own agenda. Myself included.

The mindset of the playerbase worries me too. It seems to me like they want NQ to do stuff for them, when NQ has been pretty upfront from the very beginning that this is a player driven game. Bunch of mindless ganking going on? Hire mercs or create an organization that patrols these ganking hot zones and take care of it. I like the fact that you highlighted safezones and the fact that they don’t plan on hindering PvP outside of safezones. That’s precisely how it should be.

Pledges are offline until they add new packs. There’s no date for when that will be yet. Upgrading Kickstarter pledges is never going to come back afaik. Remains to be seen if we will be able to upgrade to the new packs.