[“Marketplace Heist” Response]

If a player is robbed - this is allowed, since this is a problem in RDMS, If a market is robbed - these are exploits, and a ban, double play does not lead to a good end

[Unknown people took the base]

OK, I’m resigned to the fact that this is a gameplay, the moderators can close the topic.

[Unknown people took the base]

17 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

I'd remove the NQ response as it is a breach of EULA/TOS to do so and may have consequences.

 

 

If the answer was specific, I would agree with you, but there is no answer in the answer, I did not receive anything, which of the legates committed this, when, no details)

[“Marketplace Heist” Response]

 

An answer came from support check it out

[Unknown people took the base]

17 minutes ago, Elrood said:

Hundreds? Lol, how the hell did you get that number?
Nonetheless I see you are burned out and just want to leave at that moment - and its easier if you assume NQ is at fault. Well - thank you for information that they are actually looking at the tickets : ) That's one useful thing I can take away from it. 

I highlighted the problem in the discord, a lot of people faced this, and wrote to me that they have a similar situation, some of them wrote in support, some did not write, but the answer is always the same, I did not burn out, I really like the game but I don't feel safe, cheaters are NQ's problem

[Unknown people took the base]

2 minutes ago, Elrood said:

You don't need treachery. Maybe someone made a mistake at some point - which was than noticed by unrelated players. Like "i can't build", "ok, i will switch it for a moment to public" or something similar. Easy enough if are not used to consider ops-sec every time. 

You can assume anything, there was no response with specific names and people, so it didn't happen, no one will convince me until I find out the details of the incident, I'm not the only one you want to say hundreds of players give up their bases, this is nonsense, there is a vulnerability that NQ can't fix

I don't want to play this anymore, as I wanted to hear the wrong answer

[Unknown people took the base]

2 minutes ago, Samlow said:

Can you share with us then the same details as you shared with NQ? Else its tough to think otherwise 

I think this will hardly help you, I provided screenshots of the robbers, logs from the client, and a description of the situation, this will not help you understand anything, you need to analyze server information and logs, which NQ apparently does not have

[Unknown people took the base]

12 minutes ago, Samlow said:

Sooo.. One of your long time friends betrayed you? 

The chance of this is about the same if a bear came into your house now, treachery is out of the question, we have been playing with these people for more than 6 years, we are all investing in the game equally, as well as people of other nationalities have taken apart the base, a lot of factors that completely eliminate intention to do this, if this was an accident, then I would like to know who did when and what, while there is no such information, I believe that this was not.

[Unknown people took the base]

The answer came, I think it is not answered and the GM works, as any use of exploit you can justify this answer, I have not heard the details, where exactly is the problem, which player has granted access, I believe that access is provided to the core was not, in General, I'm completely disappointed, I will try to convey the maximum count of people this "competent" answer, 

here is the answer

Hello ONIXXX,

Thank you for reporting this, however in this case after a prolonged investigation I can confirm that this was not an exploit.
Without going into the details of the investigation, which I cannot do. I would like to advise you to be careful when giving the rank of Legate to a player.
I know this is not the news you were hoping for, but I cannot compensate you for the losses under the circumstances found in the investigation.

Further clarification on our stance towards exploits, can be found at this forum post.

We do however greatly value these reports and would like to encourage you to report other issues, bug and exploits you discover. And provided that we deem no excessive intentional abuse is discovered before or after the report, no punitive measure will be applied as a result of reporting.

If you have any further issues or questions, please do not hesitate to reach out to us.
And I sincerely hope you recover from this event.

Kind regards,
NQ-Deckard


All until, in such a project I no longer want to play, I think it would be appropriate to write who when and what did what brought to this situation, and not throw out a General answer that is suitable in any situation, compare the reaction to my situation and the reaction to market 15, and in both cases it is not clear what these people are guided by....

[Unknown people took the base]

1 hour ago, blazemonger said:

 

I have been waiting for over 4 weeks for an initial response on a ticket I logged for an incident where our containers were emptied while the base was properly locked down.

 

So I'd say, get in line /s

And what was your response?

[“Marketplace Heist” Response]

4 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

The market was publicly editable.  This is not a disputed statement. There were multiple people who reported being able to go into build mode. They had reported it on Discord to several NQ- members. 

 

Some people had the sense to walk away from it - other did not. 

 

I don't disagree that walking away was the smart move - but I stand by stance that a construct that allows the entry into build mode is free game. Regardless of whose construct it is.

 

RDMS settings are stored inside the structure, if someone reconfigured it using hacking or illegal methods, then the B button will be available to everyone, not only to the one who committed the hack, this is not an excuse, you should not be completely sure that this is 100% not the correct RDMS setting, most likely an exploit was applied that changed the rights, after which the B button became available to everyone

[“Marketplace Heist” Response]

3 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

So is misconfigured RDMS an exploit or user error?

Or is it only user error when we do it? But an exploit when devs do it? 

 

If Scoopy bypassed RDMS permissions, he absolutely should have been banned. 

 

He didn't.

 

RDMS was set to allow public access.

 

Why that was the case is not relevant.

 

There is no scenario where pressing B to access a publicly configured structure is an exploit.

Why do you have such confidence? after all, you can reconfigure RDMS using illegal methods, and get the B button by criminal means, is this possible? Yes, are you sure that the B button was received by an incorrect RDMS setting? no

[Unknown people took the base]

19 minutes ago, Aranol said:

so you see the name of the player who take you base ?

Yes, all names, logs, and additional information are provided in the ticket

[Unknown people took the base]

2 minutes ago, Aranol said:

@ONIXXX you have also lot of player that accitentaly abandon there construct, or don't understant what impact it will have to abandon a construct. so even if you are realy the victim of a bug, your request is merge with hundreds of request of players that just failed and yell for bug to have refound

look how many players make request because they crash a ship, fail a transaction....

 

personnaly after 2 year of testing, I've never see a way to stole someone base, exept if you give wrong permission to the wrong guy

with RDMS was all right, there was no failure, we were attached to the container that was inside this structure and were engaged in digging, on the minimap the building was orange, after which we lost the linked containers, we went up to the top and saw that the structure was being disassembled, and what RDMS error are we talking about? if the vulnerability is explicitly used

[“Marketplace Heist” Response]

11 minutes ago, vertex said:

Or I'd get another hand full of mates telling me that NQ is a half-... need to rephrase this to comply with forum etiquette, so let's say: that NQ is afraid of players getting mad at them and therefore doesn't issue hard enough sanctions. There is a good amount of ppl who welcome finally seeing NQ taking serious action - and I'm one of them.

 

For me NQ has just reinforced my trust because I can smell change in the wind that previously was just way too calm and forgiving with warnings and announcements repeated over and over but without any real consequences.

 

Huh, I just realize I need to head back to the OP and hit that round button with the heart symbol on it  

 

I disagree - they would've come out as the team that you can screw over if you get the chance and thereby work against everything we do here day after day.

 

Now that sounds interesting - yeah, they could still do something like that. Still, I think punishment for those "legendary bank robbers" is correct and if it's a lifelong sentence - fine

 

@Darrkwolf okay, EVE then. I'm pretty sure that CCP was a well established company and had a solid game running at the time they fixed that exploit you mentioned within a few hours. Tho even if not it doesn't change the fact that exploiting an obvious error in the game is a bannable offense.

 

This hasn't been weeks. But that's just counting peas and in my opinion is irrelevant to the topic at hand. Sure there are bigger issues at play - a lot of them, I think, actually. But all that does for me is make me even more sympathetic and makes me want to hand them some cookies and coffee or a pizza. In my opinion DU development is taking leaps since release of beta. A week ago I couldn't set my industry up on sanctuary because of performance issues - yesterday it was just as smooth as Jago.

 

I can see progress and that changes everything for me. If it doesn't do the same for you, I guess we can still agree to disagree? Because I don't think that we will hit common ground on the evaluation of these issues and their implications.

The problem is not that strict or hard, the problem is that this method was stolen by the player base, there is no compensation and adequate explanation, incorrect configuration of RDMS is nonsense, it is permissible, but not in these cases(with the rights all in order) , the problem is that it may happen tomorrow, day after tomorrow, whenever, we don't see feedback, not feel safe, to develop further in the game, there is no motivation.

[“Marketplace Heist” Response]

There is a negative wave on the forum, there is an image adjustment in the opposite direction, this is followed by a drop in sales, a decrease in revenue, subscriptions already purchased will not be renewed, programmers ' income will have to be reduced due to a shortage, and only then will tickets be processed but it will be too late, the most valuable time for us is time, if they do not want to respect it, then we will not respect the developers, we do business for NQ and not they for us, I would not like to see this as manipulation, this is a fact, NQ do not understand that we form the image, the market, and their task is to write code and respond to requests during, they preferred only to write code

[Unknown people took the base]

1 hour ago, Korban23 said:

As I understand it, ALIOT is a safe zone where I can not be afraid of losing anything from the actions of other players (not members of my organization), even if I have one static core and a container on it. It's just that it's not clear now whether there is any sense in hiding the static core or not. The problem is really serious.

5.2. You must refrain from engaging in any behaviour that could harm NOVAQUARK’s image and/or reputation, that could harm one or more other Users or have a negative impact on their gaming experience, or that is detrimental to the proper functioning of the Game.

Source https://www.dualuniverse.game/legal/eula

[Unknown people took the base]

1 hour ago, Palad1n said:

Did your org or someone in the org have ownership of the hex tile your L core factory was on? If so, who all had the rights to make changes to ownership?

 

Do you personally know all members of your org? 

 

Were all members of your org present at the time this was taking place? 

 

This is the first I have heard of any outsider being able to take over someone's factory without having some sort of permission, such as if someone was accidently marked as open use to everyone, it's easy to accidentally make the core accessible to everyone instead. 

 

Lots of questions I know, but you give very little factual info so I thought I would ask them. 

There was nothing wrong with the rights and this is not the first case of core hijacking

[“Marketplace Heist” Response]

6 minutes ago, DarkHorizon said:

I've read this thread from top to bottom now (ending at this point, whose to say what's happened in the time I've taken to write this), while my take is nothing special and has been said several times already, I'll offer it anyways:
 

I'm inclined to agree with this statement particularly.

 

Was it in bad taste, I agree, it was. I don't think anyone would disagree with you on that point.

 

The decision to leap straight to a permanent ban has me taken aback. I haven't seen anything personally, but I've heard plenty of reports about people's entire bases being stolen out from under them, even live right in front of them.

 

This blight went on for nary a time before NovaQuark finally gave us some guidance on the subject. People stealing your construct due to misconfigured RDMS is on the construct owner, and that such theft would not result in any action on behalf of NovaQuark.

 

Okay, I can understand pinning the blame on the player tester for misunderstanding the system or handing out permission willy nilly, or even setting perms to 'all', which now has a window advising players testers of the potential hazard. This, to me, is reasonable. The player tester needs to clean up their act and take it as a learning moment no matter how bitter the pill is to swallow.

 

I can even understand NovaQuarks position relating to interference with the game test. One of the marketplaces on Alioth was destroyed, and some player's testers orders were interrupted.

 

What I fail to understand here, is how NovaQuark can tell players testers who had their constructs "stolen" from them on account of faulty RDMS be given no action, only to turn around and permanently ban players testers for taking advantage of faulty RDMS on NovaQuarks own constructs.

 

It was also laid out a few days ago to that theft as a result of bad RDMS will not be actioned on by NovaQuark.

 

Did people's orders at the marketplace get interrupted, yes. 

Did a marketplace get destroyed by some players testers, yes. 

Did stuff get stolen and sold for profit, yes. 

Did some people get inconvenienced, yes.

 

Guess what:

Come atmospheric PVP and player-run markets, this kind of activity will be a daily fact of life which we'd all best get used to it.

 

Maybe for laughs, they even wrote out "Plz don't ban" in voxels when the crime was finally done. All right, perhaps it wasn't a new person that stumbled upon this but someone with experience that knew what they were doing, and the profit-seeking crime is premeditated. Instead of a seven-day ban, make it a thirty day one.

 

Sure, the beta experience got sullied, I agree. And while it was an NQ marketplace that got the wipe, it's not like it's the only marketplace on Alioth.

 

While I do agree the destruction was overboard, I think the response to this from NovaQuark was equally so. I believe NQ should take this as a learning experience, the players testers too, but more so NovaQuark. The players testers learned that no one is immune from bad RDMS, and NovaQuark probably learned a thing or two about marketplaces that should come in handy for the future feature of player-run marketplaces.

 

Dare I say we should celebrate this moment in Beta as "Hey remember that one time in Beta where a bunch of people tore apart a marketplace?" and we can all laugh around our campfire years after release...

 

Instead, what are we watching? A two-tiered justice system; rules for thee but not for me. I don't like it, not one bit.

 

Don't get me wrong, I still think something should be done in the end, but I think the justice served here outweighs the crime. Meanwhile, the justice other testers are seeking for the constructs that got stolen from them is being delayed if not denied entirely. If that was the case, we'd have a month-long backlog by now (to clarify, on that issue alone on top of everything we already have) sadly, NovaQuark is in no way treating equal actions with equal outcomes and consequences as far as this particular topic of theft goes. If we're being honest with ourselves, then scoopers, dupers, and exploiters would have already gotten the boot before this event even happened. No great Quanta reset, no publicly nerfing the ice cream scoops, just bans.

 

The fact that this scenario played out the way it did, it makes me question what is safe. If I'm questioning what is safe, that doesn't exactly make me want to test anything out of fear that I might end up in the same fate. Maybe the only winning move is not to play test?

 

In most circumstances, I can see and understand in NQ's favor on crime and punishment, but this is not one of those times. Sorry to say, but you do not have my support in this, and I've also been given some things to think about as a result of this. I don't think this topic has met its end, which is what I'm waiting for before I come to my definite conclusion. Know that I'm still just a user like anyone else commenting on this thread. I can't sway NQ's opinion in any manner, and that is not my intent with this post.

 

You have my thoughts and I'm curious to see what the future holds.

 

Oh, and I'm not joining anyone's protest or movement on any communication medium. I'm simply offering my opinion on the matter which is what these forums have allowed me to do.

All those who talk about incorrectly configured rights, for some reason do not think that there is a method of hacking RDMS, for example, the rights were configured correctly and the attackers forged these rights, this can be? is this considered an exploit?

[“Marketplace Heist” Response]

1 minute ago, Mordgier said:

You keep calling it an exploit.

 

Pressing B isn't an exploit.

This is a typical phrase of those who exploit vulnerabilities, that the B button was available, so that it would become available, you need to apply additional illegal actions

[“Marketplace Heist” Response]

and I will support the developers, since my database worth 500,000,000 was disassembled and stolen in the same way, here is a link to the topic, I created a ticket, but there is no feedback yet, I ask you to sort it out soon and compensate me for the lost time, at least in the amount of what I lost, here is a link to the topic
 

Ticket #35558

[Unknown people took the base]

4 minutes ago, Samlow said:

Its just a bad analogy all round.

A game is not a house. A persistent world is never finished nor bug/exploit free. 
Its their move to put consequences for ignoring the out of game rules about it. 

In b4 "shouldnt have claimed a tile, its pvp game"

This is all similar to the lyrics, the result so far is that there is a problem in the game, and I'm in the red for 500,000,000, and lost a month of the game, now start all over again? very good tactic, get free for which I still have to pay, would return me immediately quantas, I would not create this theme, play and test this game further, and so I now have no desire to play and pay further rent as I lost everything I had

[Suggestions for making mining more interesting]

To increase interest, this should not mean to complicate the process several times, since this is a tedious and not interesting process, if you add dangers to it, then the percentage of players will leave the project altogether, since this game is not about digging but about space

[Unknown people took the base]

Want as the author of a topic to answer the question above, about unknown people, unknown meant that I don't know, all the screenshots and the logs provided in the ticket data a complete and detailed explanations, names and corporations who are doing this are already known, I hope soon action will be taken, we even left the player who robbed us and tried obhyasnit that the core was abandoned, but it's all lies, I had an active link to the design container, and then the link disappeared, and I saw these people, that is, the link is gone not just because they did something to the core.

P.S If in the next few days I shall see no response on the ticket and the refund quantas, I will write an article about the gameplay, and I will regret that I bought the subscription to the game, I spent a whole month to earn it, and what the people in 1 hour everything is taken away, Yes, I understand that this is a beta test, but it should not be like a full reset, I'm not willing to risk, so I don't do PVP, but even that did not help me, now the motivation to play it plummeted,,,