Valkyrie

NQ: See our ideas for Industry and discuss
 
Players post largest ever 'NO DON'T DO IT'
 
NQ: Thanks for your feedback, screw you were doing it anyway.
 
'Cancel Subscription'

"God forbid anyone from making progress without having to go through some sort of paywall"
 
So here's the thing, me and the guys are a small org that go on trips, mine everything we need and manufacture our own items
We didn't hang around the market areas nor buy any essentials cause honestly trading doesn't concern us.
So why NQ out of the blue is forcing us to be traders in order to do basic industry stuff?
You want a living , breathing economy like EVE but you have to understand that unlike that game our income sources are quite limited.
There are no PVE related missions/elements so our only gateway to make quanta is essentially through the market.
Basically you are forcing a playstyle on us that we don't really want to follow here...

this is going to confer another massive advantage to the big orgs that have been running their giga factories non stop.  You're making it impossible for single players and small orgs to progress.  If it becomes so tedious to do anything alone, I'll just move on to another game.  That will be 4 paying accounts gone. 
 
A change like this requires a wipe or you remove any semblance of parity from the game.  warp beacons are now completely out of reach for small orgs.  

Without a wipe, the players/orgs with billions of quanta already will not even notice these changes while the average single player and small org will be hamstrung.  I'm not in favor of this change and will probably stop playing if it goes the way I think it will.  

I feel like the first thing you should try is to remove the market bots and see what happens to the economy naturally...  then make adjustments.  This kind of wholesale change to the way the game works without wiping will just give the dominant orgs even more advantage. 

Right.  I regret so much now that my built out static cores are not on Alioth.  But on the other hand I did that because game performance is unplayable at the major markets.  It's a painful single digit FPS shuffle to a terminal, sell stuff, grab my stuff and get out.  I did it maybe every few weeks because it sucks.  Now it's required far more often?  I don't' see this helping secondary markets getting going.  Less producers, less inventory, less outlets.  I'm not sure I want to play this game in that state.

So what I am getting from this update is: 
-Punishment for playing on my own
-Less ways to make quanta
-Much higher prices in the market
 
When do we get to play the 'game' part of the mining slave simulator? 

So what I am getting from this update is: 
-Punishment for playing on my own
-Less ways to make quanta
-Much higher prices in the market
 
When do we get to play the 'game' part of the mining slave simulator? 

Amendment to lore 
RRRingggg – My phone wakes me up 
“Kulkija speaking” 
“Hi Aphelia here” 
Kulkija: “Hi wow nice to hear..” 
Aphelia : “Listen man – We have decided that you are too small player to fill the needs of our glorious markets economy” 
Kulkija: “hmmphh!” 
Aphelia : “Since you are using our industrial units, we will disable them remotely in a couple of days”
“You may by a license to use them from us, but as a solo player you won't be able to afford it” 
Kulkija: “Whaaat..” 
Aphelia: “Why don’t you go to do something else,, whatever, just GTFO from our industrial sandbox” 

So basically we're getting a copy of how industry works in EVE. To build anything, you need a schematic plus the required materials/components to produce the final outcome.
 
Problem here will be that those who exploited early mis-judgement and loopholes made by NQ will start mass refining T4/T5 if not already done and gain a massive and virtually insurmountable advantage over anyone else.
 
By themselves, these changes are not actually bad, but as I feared and as I did mention in my post on this, the corner NQ painted themselves in regarding a wipe will not cause a culture where those that benefitted form NQ's mistakes will be able to take a massive advantage. In general, these changes in the existing state of the game will lock out anyone but the biggest orgs with stockpiles of (high tier) ore.
 
A wipe is needed and may become unavoidable to not let the game slip into a "have and have not" culture IMO.

Please don't do this. It literally sucks.

Hi NQ
 
Nobody can dispute making everything in megafactories was too easy, linear, and out of balance. But there are so many issues with your approach to fix it.
 
 
PROBLEM 1) You are putting yourselves in quite a position with treating the game as a beta and non-beta whenever it works. On one hand, with the promise of keeping our wealth into the release, we're expected to treat the game as it's an actual launch to compete with other players and organizations. But then there is no support, mechanics can change dramatically, etc. You're also putting at least a 6-months gap between those who could exploit the unbalanced mechanics early and accumulate wealth, and those who couldn't.
 
SOLUTION: I don't really have a solution to this. Perhaps the best way to operate right now is to announce a full wipe at the end of beta if you can financially handle it.
 
 
PROBLEM 2) This update leaked to lots of people for several weeks. The knowledge put those people further ahead.
 
SOLUTION: Either enforce your NDA, or do not disclose (economically sensitive) details of how you'll change things.
 
 
PROBLEM 3)  Completely unhelpful talents just to unlock elements are a bad idea. Eve Online learned this lesson over the years and they are doing away with artificial prerequisites to start playing the game. Industry is one of the rare domains where talents actually GREATLY matter. Most production will eventually become unviable overtime without respective talents. It's bad analysis if you thought the lack of talents was an issue.
 
SOLUTION: If you want to wall element usage behind talents, you should do so behind the existing talents. This way at least people get a benefit alongside element access. A sense of actual progression and no waste of days of training.
 
 
PROBLEM 4) I am quite worried whether the game actually has enough quanta supply recipes for sufficient production.
 
SOLUTION: The game needs isk faucets besides the honeycomb NPC order businesses. I have low-cost proposals for that in the idea box.
 
 
PROBLEM 5) Machine-based recipes create lots of issues. It'll be quite tedious to teach the recipes to every single element and to keep tabs on them even in non-megafactories. Moreover, how will our investments be saved? I hope (but am not certain) the recipes will be saved under "dynamic properties" of a machine. But then we won't be able to deploy the same factory from a blueprint. It'll be impossible to move factories. So you're not only investing in the machine, but also in the location of the factory. That'll have even greater repercussions with territory warfare. 
 
SOLUTION: You should have at least made the recipes character-based. Given that you don't tolerate account sharing and ban those who do, this would still achieve specialization, yet make it way less tedious.
 
 
PROBLEM 6) Cost is an artificial and unsustainable way to motivate people to specialize. Once people accumulate enough capital, megafactories will begin popping again. Then those who can afford them will be miles ahead of others.
 
SOLUTION: To achieve truly sustainable differentiation and specialization, there needs to be differentiation in the ways the source materials are acquired. Ore is equally available to every individual. It should take organizational level effort to access some building materials; it should take outside-the-box intelligently developed systems to access others. Moreover, it should make more sense to make one product somewhere and to make another elsewhere (geographically).