GallopingTortoise
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Posts posted by GallopingTortoise
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I think that everyone will be complaining about industry as everyone needs to do industry to have something to do. Specialization will only happen if there are other proper avenues of making money and the ability to loose stuff.
I am also not happy with the schematics but mega factories will destroy smaller orgs and outsell them. Perhaps there is a better way? Like Eve where if your factory is setup in null space you get benefits and having a true "risk vs reward"
Another aspect that is bothering me is the availability of higher tier ore and it seems like it is going the same way like Eve where major alliances controlled all the moon mining. They had to change this to balance the game.
Bottom line is that we need something else except industry to make decent money.
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EVE has got the basic's correct but the general PVE that drives a big part of the economy (special drops, BP from rats, bounties and ore mining) is boring as hell.
Copying EVE and implementing it badly is even worse than not have having your own ideas at all as what happened after patch release.
DU needs to invent their own basics, implement those to get all streams implemented that feeds the market and removes currency from the game. After this the market will start to "live" and can then be tweaked to make sure the balance is correct.
Forcing the market upfront is not a good move as you create a runaway train that has no brakes and you are busy building brakes while it is just gaining more and more speed.
Funny how I remember DU was advertise as all content created in game will be player based. I knew back then it was very unlikely fitting that into the rest of the game meta.
If I remember well CCP hired professional economists to help with setting up the market and maintaining it, it does not look like it is done by NQ.
NQ should not copy EVE too much as EVE has re-spawnable resources that DU does not have and is fundamentally a big difference. Work to that strength and not be bound by the limitation of static worlds.
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On 12/9/2020 at 6:43 PM, Fra119 said:
You might say "go mine", but mining have now become the most dangerous thing I could do atm, because as a builder if I crash my M ship now (for whatever reason) there's no way I can go back on my feet in a reasonable amount of time. To my understanding of the upcoming patch I won't be able to (at least not immediately) smelt mid tier ores and craft mid tier scrap (which is essential to repair bigger ships), replacing broken element is a dream because of lack of wealth, and last but not least, fuels?
Will I be forced to go back to my S core 100t ship because, you know, reasons?
That is exactly what is happening in hindsight
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On 12/10/2020 at 8:08 PM, Captain Hills said:
for me the smoking gun is:
a new player will probably play with his first territory Scanner once when all tiles on all planets are already scanned and extracted
they play another deck of cards as anyone being there before them
- and this puts the game in danger for them because its NOT fair ... and they will know that one day
This is very true
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That is the truth GG, sad very sad.
Fix the bugs before you remove the functionality that was implemented as workaround for the bugs or am I missing something here?
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On 12/10/2020 at 2:12 AM, Deintus said:
I understood the general idea of what they were going to try to do, but obviously I didn't understand how much this was going to cost to get my industry running again. I get they want us to use the markets more, however I was hoping that the lag near markets, as well as the clutter of abandoned structures, would have been taken care of before this. More people, even more lag. I'm not rich in RL and this is making the game lag so much near markets it is near unplayable for me now. I can't run out and upgrade my memory or my graphics.
Also, my assembly efficiency is at 40% and the assembly handling at 44%, this makes me feel like it was all for nothing. It would have been nice if we could have had a chance to obtain some schematics or some way to ease the transition. But now, with no money to buy parts, no way to build more (decent) parts, and no way to sell anything for decent profit (I mean come on, Tier1 and Tier2 were already relatively cheap for the hours spent to get them.) Now with everyone trying to sell them to each other and very few people, if anyone at all actually, who has any incentive to BUY it, the markets tanking, I will have to spend hours mining for the price of one medium space engine.
I'm not stupid, I don't expect anyone to care really that I am considering just quitting the game and trying for a refund, I am just venting my frustration over a situation that could have been handled much better IMO. I was really enjoying the game, but since I can't afford the many many hours of mining, and I can't afford upgrading my system to counter the horrible (for me) lag, there is little point to stay much longer if I can't make it work.
I upgraded to a proper solid state drive and added another 16gb and it did not resolve the market issue. This is a server side issue that needs to be addressed.
I also agree with the rest of your post as I setup industry to automatically build tier 1 pilot elements with a screen that shows Ore levels (thanks to a org mate). All that newbies that join needs to do is make sure the ore containers are filled and they can build ships. Nothing fancy but I spend a lot of hours on this and I just don't have the in-game currency to setup a factory to craft 10% of what my nano crafter can do.
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It is sad to see things going this way, especially the feedback from old faces from Alpha, I just can't disagree with how everyone feels about the current state of the game.
Going back to basics and fixing those should be the the main priority.
It looks like NQ really needs money now by charging game time for an alpha release. This seems like a very slippery slope.
Stupid me I was very enthusiastic about Beta and got a lot of my EVE Corp member that stopped playing EVE to join my Org. We even named it the same as the Eve corp and now I am the only active player left.
Will take a break again and see if things improve in a couple of months
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On 12/11/2020 at 3:00 PM, blazemonger said:
NQ is trying to sell an early alpha state development as a released game in beta as a paid for live service game. They are not owning up to their commitment and promises set out starting from kickstarter and continue to water down the game.
They are trying to make things work but due to the way they designed the game are not able to build complete game loops to facilitate that and seem unwilling to make changes to be able to actually do that by introducing PVE content which is needed to make mechanics work and instead think that they can save the game by introducing a Battle Royal mode and a creative sandbox mode.
They think that the mission system is the silver bullet that will solve all problems, they think that by adding a magic "available power" number to tiles they can create power management that is immersive and attractive. They do not consider options and suggestion that actually trigger gameplay for all game play styles and make the game complex, strategic and emergent.
If players find creative ways to play without affecting others, they nerf these options. If players find creative ways to play while impacting others though creating obstacles and risk for others with the same end goal/effect, NQ thinks that's fine and really cool.
They say that the industry changes are what was always intended but they were not ready and the result was that too many player got to "endgame" content (whatever that means) too fast.. Thing is, the changes do not take that endgame content away, it just denies those that did not get there yet for whatever reason the ability to do so while the ones that did will be able to carry on . NQ pretty much is of the opinion that as a solo player or small group you have no problem as you can just pay others whatever they want to ask for by using te markets.
Large orgs can isolate entirely from the in game economy and fend for themselves regardless of the changes because it hardly affects them as they have already stocked up and have so much money they can just blanket buy what other will have to work weeks, if not months for to get to. _THAT_ is what the economy is not starting, the isolationist behavior is not with the "small guy", it is with the big orgs who have build their own infrastructure internally, and did so to some degree by using early exploits, loopholes and possibly insider info, and have zero need or incentive to use or feed markets/the economy outside of dumping surplus at whatever price they desire to set for it and/or use their position to undercut and push out anyone trying to get a piece of the pie.
Yes, it would certainly cause a setback for many who worked hard to build a small business for themselves in game but the only way to correct the stranglehold the big orgs already have on the game will be to wipe and allow everyone to build their dream on even footing after massive changes are introduced which really are the definition of alpha state of development for a game.
To quote myself from Discord;
And yes, I do feel I am being "clear, polite and to the point."
I agree 100% and I am starting to think that the backend infrastructure can't handle the dream concepts. As I mentioned a long time ago to you on Discord the super big orgs will kill the game like in Eve.
Eve have been trying to undo big powerhouse wealth for the last 2 years.
When they implement automated mining in DU they will kill the game for the smaller groups trying to have fun and probably the game too
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On 12/10/2020 at 10:31 PM, echa said:
While I'm sure he's an absolutely brilliant AI engineer, JC is utterly incompetent at game design.
With pvp as broken as it is, there were really only 3 attractions to the game: mining, industry, and building. There's a reason everyone was building their own giga factory. There's simply nothing else to do.
You could mine and sell ore then buy elements or mine and build your own industry. Most everyone opted for building their own industry because it's both easier and a more efficient use of time.
They noticed that markets weren't being used so instead of adding more content to allow players to do something other than mining and industry they simply took away industry. You can't immediately remove 50% of a game's content overnight and expect everyone to be happy. I'm honestly shocked that NQ/JC either didn't anticipate the backlash or simply didn't care.
What do we have now? Mine for ore, sell it, then build stuff. There's literally nothing else in the game. No way to make money besides mining. This patch should have been deployed after implementing additional mechanics for making money. As it stands now, you mine to sell ore (at continuously dropping prices thanks to supply & demand) or you do... nothing.
I'm actually impressed. I haven't seen this kind of incompetence in game design since no man's sky and even that was arguably more fraud and deceit than incompetence.
That is actually very accurate
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On 12/12/2020 at 1:35 AM, Dhara said:
I really liked industry. It was challenging to see how many machines I could get going at once, how far ahead of my queue I could get and so on. I would tweak on it for hours. That fun is now gone and I am to be nerfed down to a refiner and honeycomb maker. So everyone in my org will now have to ask me to make all their honeycomb for them. This is not fun game play. Not ALL of us are here ONLY for the giant PVP battles that JC clearly wants to force us into. He does not seem to want a universe full of diversity of game-play (like in most sandboxes) in any way shape or form. We are ALL to join the three of four giant orgs in the game and become cogs in their machines. I wanted a sandbox where I could help build a civilization, not be a slave for giant orgs that may or may not even want to get to know me as a person at all.
I am still hanging on, but ONLY for the sake of the players in my org. I only have a few left and I love them to death, but I suspect that the ones who don't just outright quit will be forced to join larger orgs if they too want to engage in any PVP at all. I doubt we will be able to build the modest sized transport company I have dreamed of anymore. I dont have time IRL to do all that mining. So, we'll see what happens, but I can tell you this. I am REALLY going to miss playing with my factories.
I must agree 100%
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I got into DU because I was tired of Eve and wanted something new and different, now it seems NQ is just copying EVE without looking at the pitfalls. Learn from EVE's mistakes (They have been trying hard to undo historical mistakes they have made after a lot of people have left the game)
Schematics is not so bad as I get the fact that super factories is an issue however saying that the current way it was implemented is completely killing the game.
They should have just given one schematic of each up to tier 3 for everyone to do basic building and still produce some elements to sell on the market to buy more schematics and steadily build up small factories.
This would still have killed the super factories. Now only Orgs with deep pockets will be making money leaving simple folk out of the game. Basically the rich will get richer.
There are so many other basic issues that needs to be fixed and new player are not just leaving because of content but performance issues.
Anyway my 2 cent's will join back in a couple of months hoping things have changed for the better
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They should have just given one schematic of each up to tier 3 for everyone to do basic building and still produce some elements to sell on the market to buy more schematics and steadily build up small factories.
This would still have killed the super factories. Now on Orgs with deep pockets will be making money leaving simple folk out of the game.
There are so many other basic issues that needs to be fixed and new player are not leaving because of content but bad game performance.
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interesting I like the survival future outlook :-)
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Hi All
extremely flawed unthought out mining system that is bad now and extremely bad for the long run.
in General Discussions
Posted
Shifting resources on tiles makes a lot of sense and it will also keeps the exploration aspect alive and making money off it. I do suspect that the TS will become obsolete.
As mentioned in another post there will be a similar situation like Eve moon mining where it was captured by big alliances basically forever.