Novean-32184

I am wondering if this behaviour is intended. It seems to me it is easily exploitable as it essentially allows an entire org to mine on tile they are not paying taxes for anyway. As I also understand that the L/h value is now limitless, the question there remains what is 10 people start mining for the same ore, do they each get that rate or is the rate set per tile, that I have actually not yet tested. whichever way that answer falls, there is either an exploit or a potential "soft PVP" or griefing potential there.

I think he got exactly what I was meaning to say but does not see the fact a third party can now access someone's tile for mining without the tile owner knowing as aproblem or at least as intended. He did not ask for me to display the rights set at all. My point I guess is that whoever operates a mining unit needs to have mining rights set, linking that to the construct owner the unit is on is not correct.

Sure @W1zard .. Owner of the tile is Peter Paul has rights to use mining units on Peter's tiles and for him to be able to do that he needs to also have rights to deploy static cores on the tile Frank has rights to use Paul's constructs and access elements on them Paul places a static construct with mining units on a tile owned by Peter Frank can now use the mining units to collect ore on Peter's tile without Peter even knowing it. The ability to mine is linked to the owner of the construct the unit is on, not to whoever operates the mining unit. I can't imagine this is intentional but woudl be interesting to know, This also implies that entire orgs can fairly easily gain access to any tiles one of their members have access to on a personal level I mentioned in another thread that this should be as easy to solve in RDMS as the person accessing the mining unit needs to have the "Mine Territory" right for the territory the construct holding the mining unit is on. The "use mining unit" right is actually entirely unneeded.

Peter is friends with Paul. They exchanged rights to mine on each other's tiles. Frank is friends with Paul but does not know Peter. Frank has exchanged access righte to constructs with Paul as they are in the same org and now can mine on Peter's tiles as well Working as intended?

The voxel blob issue would have never been solved, it was not solved in Landmark and plagued DU up to the point of birngin in the meching april last yeear. The point was that doing so to me inidicated that NQ was both willing and able to move beyond their "we'd like to do it like this" and go for "we can make it work like this" instead. Had that process been more prevalient and ingrained in their design process, DU woudl probably be a very different game today. NQ has shown a few times they could make and accept a change form their original plan but it took them a very long time to get thath, wasting that time in the process. To me, the biggest hurdle is that NQ still thinks they can make the game work based around "we build the systems, players will build the content" combined with a very short term focus on goals and planning. If NQ does not change course and starts changing the core of the game to accomodate more PVE content which in turn might well have an angle/entry for PVP as well AND make that content valuable for other systems and mechanics in the game regardless of who brings this value in, the game wil never come to life. If there is nothing to gain, nothing to contest and nothing to see conflicts emerge over, there is no reason for communities and society to exist. At hte same time, if combat is the only option in a game to resolve conflict then the same applies.

You seem to think you can spin this as a "no wipe" statement by taking a single sentence out of context.. The statement actually makes it clear that for NQ a wipe is an option, like it alwasy has been. What NQ has always said is that they will try and avoid a wipe if possible but will wipe if they have to, and the full quote you posted says the exact same thing. I also do not know from when this quote is but it can't be recent as NQ has been quite open about having the wipe firmly on the table and the working choses really implies that a wipe is going to happen, it is the when which is stil being debated. You and several others love to try and spin "no plans for a wipe" as meaning "no wipe" and at the same time try and make "if NQ sees no other option" as "there is always other options". Neither is the case. NQ has made one mention of a "final wipe" prior to beta but has since very clearly rolled that back to "no current plans, but we will if it is needed" There are very direct and valid arguments to be made for circumstances currently in game which really only can be corrected with a wipe There is a good indication that NQ has made the decision for a wipe closer to release some time again, possibly even at or shortly after beta started, and has based how they responded to the fall out of exploiits and other (player) actions or unforeseen side effects of changes on that internal knowledge

While this is mostly the press release (which is a real shitty piece of writing to be honest). Pulling a comment about a wipe out of it to suit your narrative while you ignore what is a few lines down: "Players can expect this pricing model to carry on after the game’s launch in 2021" Should kind of tell you how much value this piece really has after everything that happened. This was written under the smokescreen JC dropped around the "beta" and his continuing dellusion of unrealistic timeframes for progress and release. As it stands this piece is outdated and made obsolete by more recent statements and commenst by NQ leadership which directly contradicts most of it. Point is, I'm certain there will be a wipe, it wil be close to "release". Apparently @NQ-Sesch said on Discord that NQ plans to have a stetement around it sometime January next year. That in itself makes me fear the worst in that NQ may plan to do one, maybe two more big patches and then wipe and just drop the "release". Exactly, just a reminder that NQ never planned for a "public beta" until they announced it April last year. Development was supposed to remain backers access only up until release JC really screwed the pooch big time with his stubborn personal reality bubble.

Thanks for making my point for me This statement clearly keeps a wipe of any kind on the table, does not make any promises about what may or may not be retained. At best it sets the expectation of a "best effort" by NQ to reduce impact if they can.

Not understanding a partial wipe is realistically needed for the game to be able to survive past launch is simply naive.

The "no red flags" comment by JC was the point where I knew the project had gone off the cliff and he lost control of it. Another one was the dismissive way in which he put his "of course we'll fix the bugs". It just really exposed he was well out of his depth and would not be able to recover from the many blunders he stacked up basically from the initial mention of the "beta" in April last year. It was such a joy for us Alpha backers to finally see some massive progress in the game with voxel meshing, it changed the way the game felt and looked. It was really the first major step which showed progress. I recall the first time coming out of the first tutorial building after voxel meshing was in place and see the whole district rendered in as it was supposed to be, not as a blob of material. It was for me a moment where I got the feeling NQ might just be able to pull this off. But that feeling never was re-enforced or returned after that as it was really too late already as everything was built on pretence and hiding from the reality of not being able to secure more funding, so the whole thing was one massive downhill slide into the abyss for him and he came very close to pulling the entire company and the game down with him. JC was kicked out for good reason. His vision for the game was great, his lack of ability to adjust and mould it to fit what was technically feasible and his failure to find funding beyond the first layer of his network, caused him to lose his company and his dream in the end.

That will not happen just like a full wipe will not happen. People trying to argue against a wipe really need to stop holding on to the non-existent commitment from NQ of a no wipe promise or even a "if all else fails" scenario. NQ has not once said there wil not be another wipe NQ has at several times mentioned there might be another wipe prior to release All NQ has said is that there were no plans for a wipe AT THAT TIME You lot really need to stop talking yourself into believing NQ made any commitments they never did. And some of you are so stubborn in clinging to these completely fabricated expectations you actually believe them to be true. The argument that "you would lose everything" is simply not true. You'd keep blueprints and it would be highly unlikely that talent points accrued would not be refunded to the pool. If you start in a wiped universe with tens of millions of talent points and a backpack full of blueprints you will have a _massive_ advantage over those that come in fresh, if you at the same time group up and work together to rebuild even more so. Now, if you want to argue that NQ would need to have some tools in place to make it easier to rebuild in a new situation where you may not have access to all the raw material or industry to rebuild, I certainly will agree that that is a fair point. As an example, I could see there would need to be an option to replace one voxel material for another when you rebuild from a blueprint and have the ability to exclude elements from a rebuild you do not have the need for or do not have the materials for. I would not prefer to see "magic blueprints" as they would allow much of the reasons for a wipe, such as remaining gains from exploits, to be recovered and the same goes for schematics, on a wipe these need to not be retained. The two are not linked. Obviously on a wipe, you lose what is on Sanctuary.

It's not. I understand nq wants to build in a fair opportunity for players to taek their stuff off of a tile they lost but at the same time, this leaves the gamle here entirely wit hthe person taking ownership. It would have been MUCH better if you claim an abandonneed tile with a 2 week timer to pay the initial taxes. You'd be down the cost of placing the TU but not pay taxes until the time expires for the previous owner to come and collect their stuff.. Pretty much like an eviction notice.

The reason is simple, combined with the mining unit calibration, it will require aanyone who has even the slightest interest of playing to login very frequently and be active. NQ needs the statistics to show the game is viable if they ever have a chance of getting the funding they need to keep the lights on.

100% this. Conflict is something that should grow out of circumstance and then it should never just have one single solution in combat.

It would require a complete rewrite of the entire game core. The whole concept of DU was designed around the notion that "millions of players" would come and build. To accommodate the chance of that working, the core design eliminated all the things that make a MMO.. well.. a MMO... It removed all the things which would make DU tick as a game, and it was spun as "we're doing things differently". DU literally is just a box with sand, that is all it is, and unless NQ finds the resources to go back and redo pretty much the entire thing that is all it will ever be. The big thing was that NQ said that they would bring the tools and give us the systems to then build the game, they never did. All that has happened and is still happening is they are cutting out more and more to be able to initially keep the performance up and now keep the cost at a level they can afford to pay.. until they can't. DU will need many tens of thousands of players to pay subscriptions to stay afloat, problem is the game really has nothing that would allow that to happen, The momentum for the game to attract the players who will build out gameplay for other players simply is not there.

Excellent points made in a solid, wel presented video, some are a bit over amplified but valid nonetheless. @NQ-Abu and @NQ-Sesch should really be sat down and watch it. The problem is that from NQ's perspective you "just do not understand".. /s The part about the PVE content which in turn becomes a PVP opportunity where the reward from the PVE content is valuable and serves a purpose in the game overall. That is what sets a game like EVE so far apart from its competition since _everything_ in EVE has a meaning, a purpose and value, it may not be much in some cases, but it does. Everything in EVE matters in one way or another, _that_ is why EVE is still such a varied game appealing to many different player types nearly TWENTY years after it was released. The total lack of it in DU is why the game really is boring and pointless. Oh, it's also why EVE, as a F2P game, brings in about €5M in revenue each month.. Just to put that out there.. Players understand and see the value in spending their money on the game, even when a LOT of them never actually do and pay their way with in game currency entirely. I think basic survival mechanics would be fun, but I think not a requirement. I absolutely agree that immersive and engaging PVE content will be a requirement for DU to even stand a chance. The Talent system in DU is pretty much a half-baked copy from EVE but there, it goes hand in hand with using your ships fitting, the availability of boosters and drugs and most importantly gaining actual EXPERIENCE playing which will make the learned skill meaningful. In EVE, you can compensate to as good degree for not having skills by using modified/faction modules which are more expensive but will offer some benefits otherwise available through skills. Industry in DU uses schematics but for the game, schematics really have no purpose but being a money sink. In EVE, basic tier 1 blueprints (which is what they are called there) can be bought yes, but you can also find them in the game, you can research them, improve them, boost them, invent better versions, and sell copies of your modified versions for others to use. I do not want to turn this into a "make DU more like EVE" argument as that is not the point. The point is that NQ clearly draws "inspiration" from EVE but so far has failed to both understand and capture the essence of what they are going for. I asked this question in the Q&A: The answer that came back, really just shows NQ has no actual clue about where such a question come from and just gives a pretty stock answer The answer shows that NQ has no eyes on the discussions going on in the forums (or if they do, the message is not transmitted internally), does not understand what is driving us to ask these questions nor do they show any interest in actually engaging with it. It's just a bland, boring and lifeless response. Which unfortunately aligns pretty closely to the state of the game

I'm sorry, but if it looks like a trollpost and smells like a trollpost, it probbaly is .. a trollpost.. I woudl not actually give it the attention it's getting.

As mentioned a partial wipe would be expected to let you keep blueprints and the accrued talent points, which really represent the time you "paid for" woudl be returned to the pool. Also, I do not see how "And it gives an unfair advantage to those that deal in BP" makes sense with regards to blueprints as @RugesV mentions. You get a consumable blueprint for your existing constructs and you keep your core blueprints unaltered. That means if you bought a ship before, you get to spawn a new one provided you have all the materials needed.

I certainly think that if NQ gets their business in order and delivers a good series of updates in 2022, doing a wipe shortly before moving to "release" really is just a good business decision all around as it wil erase all of the pain for the false start JC caused with his panic moves last year. Some will hate it, most who say they will leave won't and many who put the game on the back burnrner will come back and give the game another shot. I do think that the wipe will need to come with the end of beta key access though, so that would put it very close to "release". NQ could then also offer a "pre-release" sub which will run for say a month prior to release. All sorts of options for them there but the first hting they need to do is get the ship sailing again and away from the cliffs they are at now.

@Scavenger I'd say the question of whether aprtial wipe will come is pretty much 100% what is still up for debate is when it will happen. We may get an idea once the 2022 road map drops as I do expect NQ intents to "release" the game second half 2022, probably Q4

?

Problem with that idea, while good, is that NQ never bothered to bring in the mechanics and tools eeded to make such things work. NPCs would be good for the game, they could be mission givers and could be at scattered POI where you can get some interesting items. Problem here is that the game core does not accomodate this at all and NQ in designing the game never considered NPCs as being part of it as they thought that players would do it al lthemselves and come in the hundreds of thousands as soon as NQ opened the doors..

Who said that? NQ sure never did Software development stages are not legal terms They are generally accepted industry standards though

@VandelayIndustries I agree that a wipe with BP and accrues talentpoint back in the pool wil lhappen yes.. I think NQ woudl like to do that prior to the update that brings in Territory warfare as that would also remove safezones on outer planets. Combines with all the changes leading up to that, and what Id say is a fair assumption this woudl be one of the last big patches before "release", a wipe at that point woudl make sense in many ways.

(removed the first answer in this post as it is not relevant) While the wording is careful as always, I believe that the call to wipe has been made internally, the "intense discussion" may be a PR spin or about the when. But I'm even more convinced that we'll see a wipe before release now.. And I would agree it wil be needed once NQ has completed most of the work during "Balpha" and actually moved to Beta (which they wil label as "release")