VandelayIndustries
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Posts posted by VandelayIndustries
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39 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:
In all fairness, part of the problem and part of the reason why certain groups started lobbying NQ to get these safe zones was the ever-present talk of "wait until PVP comes I'll be kicking over all your sand castles"
Now, NQ could have turned around and made it clear that was not going to happen and clarify that the TW mechanics would be favouring defence (as they have done once) and that it would not be a simple matter of walking up and kicking over sandcastles. They could also have then turned the other way and said "We will be bringing in enough options for you to work on making your territory very, very safe and very hard to take over (as they hinted here and there).
Instead, NQ never even tried to set correct expectations for both sides and just turned half the game into a permanent safe zone.
Basic game design choices would have allowed NQ to build a system that provided pretty much an full on safe zone if you want it.
- Have the TU as the centre
- Allow the TU to be "upgraded"
- Tier this in a way that each level extends a "decay and attack free zone" from say 1 S core size to 4 L core size around the TU
- If a tile is fully surrounded by org/same player owned tiles and all of them have a TU upgraded to the highest tier, the centre tile becomes a virtual safe zone in its entirety.
- Such a top tier tile allows players to set rules with regards to use of weapons, set taxes, charge for renting space etc.
Really not hard to come up with and mostly should really not be very costly in dev resources to create. It also builds a strong case for:
- "You want to be safe? You can get there, but you have to organise and work for it"
- "You want combat and take over territory? You can do so, but you have to organise and work for it"
This is very spot on. in eve highsec a player citadel can take up to 14 days to kill it (dunno if that has been tweaked). Thats a long time to prep for defense, call allies, evacuate, etc. And the defenders choose the timezones.
NQ could of done the same, and it could of also used that adjacency bonus if you own tiles touching it increased the days too. So in reality if some org or person owned 50 some tiles, and the inner tiles were its city/base it could take literally a month to chew threw the outer tiles/timers. That right there is not some fly by night pvp gank. That is a declaration of WAR. and that is a good thing. Plenty of time for the defenders to find options. or just win the fight. But instead we have safe zone universe. Unless NQ comes up with something soon the game will probably be put into separate servers like space engineers where you host your own server on your own dime and admin it yourself. At least that way NQ could then turn some sort of profit.
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38 minutes ago, Kurosawa said:
The game was marketed as and open skills games, so ofcause you can do everything, just not at once. This allows the player to try out all aspect of the game to it fullest and chose what ever they want on a given day.
What the OP seems to want is class based game, you know the same old paladin, wizard priest, we can call them miner, pilot and ceo. A system where you get locked in, unless you delete your character and start over.
Open skill systems give the play options to do what they want, in a manner they want. But it is not for all players many prefer the more linear class based route
the open skill system is fine, if you actually have a game. If people have way more options then to do industry, then things usually even themselves out. People find their niche or place in the world. DU is severely lacking in that department so these things seem more of a problem then they are. If a new person can come in, set a few autominers, mine a MOON near alioth. get a xs core with some guns and go shoot some rats, or go do a scan/radar exploration game to get some loot from NPC wreck, you have other ways to progress, earn $$ and then buy stuff you need. Right now the game is so [filtered]ing bare bones, and whats scary to people is "release" seems to be coming sooner rather than later. NQ cant keep letting these 10s of thousands of beta keys keep logging in without paying.
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1 hour ago, Kobayashi said:
It was three things, daily login, sorry but 150k injected daily into approx 10k players is a LOT of quanta, which ever way you look at it, ore sales to bots (which was the main source of generated income), then product sales to bots (which actually only added a small margin markup to ore selling).
The majority of people buying my stuff werent hardcore industry players, they were average Joe's mining a bit and selling ore.
Love the patronising last line..... the old trick of trying to devalue the argument through belittling the other party..... classy10,000 x 150k = 1.5 bil. x 30days is only 45bil. But that is spread out so no it didnt really matter. And as numbers showed a lot of those people quit after 30 days. Huge drops on twitch from streamers too trying out the new game. BOTS from ore and people exploiting selling honeycomb and other things was how quanta was introduced. These are facts.
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Also where do you think all that money you made in early beta come from? It want daily logins that's for sure. It was people mass exploiting the bots. If you can't understand that then I can't help you.
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14 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:
You cant discount the daily login though, as it DOES put money into the game and that money can then be spent on player generated gameloops like market product sales, ship sales etc.
Whilst I agree that a lot of people did either sell ore directly to bots, or make large quantities of products and sell to bots, there were MUCH better margins to be made selling to players. I promise you I made a LOT more selling to players than anyone could have selling to bots with the same quantity of ore.
The biggest reason being that the majority of players didnt realise that people are lazy and didnt fly to the cheapest market, they flew to the closest.That's completely irrelevant as I'm talking of money coming into the game. YOU SELLING ONLY TRANSFERS QUANTA IT DOES NOT CREATE IT. DU doesn't have npcs to attack and took them about a year for missions so at that time the major income of quanta was bots. Thus as we said going against the player run markers we were promised since kickstarter and even alpha.
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You all also forget, the biggest ships that also deal the most dps are the fastest. That right there is one of the biggest problems. There is a reason speed is such a valuable Stat in eve online and ships even warp at slower speeds.
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3 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:
Was specifically talking about 'no way' part, which is false, there were and still are plenty of ways. I am still selling stuff T1 stuff when I log in that I listed 2 months ago......and I still dont sell much or (never sold a single ton of T1 ore)
For the game. There was no way for quanta to come into the game. Until missions came out. There is the daily login but that isn't a gameloop to put quanta in the game.
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2 minutes ago, Wyndle said:
I had finally gotten enough basic industry units to make my own fuels and start tinkering with production of ship parts. The 0.23 patch set me back so far that I still had not recovered before I decided to take a break. Now that Demeter has nuked mining and replaced it with buggy auto-mining chores I'm barely above new player start point and not looking forward to grinding to keep playing.
TBH, I'm most likely to go beta test a different game until NQ gets a clue (or folds).
They think they can keep removing stuff without also adding shit to do. That may and well be fine during an alpha. But they chose to charge people a monthly sub. Kind of backed themselves into a corner and it shows.
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1 minute ago, Maxim Kammerer said:
Yes, you should be able to do that but not as efficient as somebody who is specialized in a single profession. That includes that somebody who spends the same total talent points only into PvP and buys the exotic weapons would have an advantage over you in PvP. This is how it is intended in DU, but I do see two problems:
1. It is quite easy to get decent talents and than spending additional talent points don't make much of a difference anymore. The talents should scale more linear and have more levels.
2. Talent points grow passive only. That makes it too easy to bypass the system with alts. There should at least be a mixture of passive increase and upskill by actual playing in the particular profession.
Again you are right they use eve model without using the T5 as a time gate. So many things can't be done or even sit in ships until T5 skills are trained. In DU you get 80% of the bonus of a skill for 20% time invested. Then some skills it's 26 days for the last 5%. If you aren't gonna hard gate with T5 then it should be way different for skills. Lvl 1-4 should be 2.5% and lvl 5 should be 15% increase. This would separate the people a lot more who master certain skills. And allow at least a little more specialization.
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It works in eve because there is other stuff to do and make money. Majority of people don't craft in eve. A very good portion don't ever mine either. That's because there are NPCs to shoot for loot and money. There is PI. There is exploration and the hacking mini game for loots. There is trading In stations. There is hauling. There is ganking for profit. Now look at DU. That is the problem and why everyone does everything as there is like 2 things to do, mining and industry.
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1 hour ago, Kobayashi said:
Not strictly true, I made a FORTUNE at launch without ever selling to a single bot. I still dont sell any ore at all, most of my money came from being the first player to sell CAT3 on Alioth and then selling T1 products at markets. I have also sold a lot of stuff on other planets, mainly things like containers, T1 industry, territory units etc.
I do agree though that player made selling should be MUCH better supported in game. Simply getting rid of the 'job board' and instead allowing players to place 30 day categorised ads for player made businesses would be a good start, adding details / specific icons to the map over and above the current 'open to players' icons!Yes just because you did tho, didn't mean other people didn't make mass amounts selling to bots.
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6 hours ago, Ninator said:
and there my friend, I am sorry to tell you, you are wrong.
It is all about psychology.
There is a huge difference between
- if you define the base yield at 100% and punish the player when he is not calibrating
versus
- if you calibrate nicely, you are rewarded and get more than 100%.
see the difference ? Its called motivation.
All game loops should be designed to be motivating.
If they are not, the game designer failed.
Hahahahhahaahaha.
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3 minutes ago, Kurosawa said:
There is no aim for it as such, NQ just believe that punishment is something people like so that is what they do.
If they could have made it in to a carrot by allow the MU to function at 100% standard but 150% or higher calibrated.
so then the 150% actually becomes the new 100%. Fudging the numbers to make something look more attractive isnt what is needed.
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1 hour ago, Dyab0lix said:
I didnt even know there was player made shops in DU apart from ship showrooms and fuel at marketplace landing pads. I assume thats another thing you can only really find out of game in discord etc.
Ya NQ really screwed that up. They also released their beta with no way to generate quanta but sell to bots, and in the beginning people were exploiting hard selling things like honeycomb cause the talents gave so much and turned it into huge money maker. We didnt have missions so they went with a market and bots on every single orbital body. Did nq really think each moon would have people selling shit? There wasn't anything to do but run your own factory early beta. NQ can't see past their own nose that's just one of their many problems. But this game in its current form doesn't need to be single shard, as it has no redeemable features that require such a thing. And as shown by NQ they can't afford the servers so every development patch is to reduce server costs.
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On 12/15/2021 at 4:03 AM, Aaron Cain said:
They should have never called this phase a beta with so many game changing alterations, features getting canned, features we would nevernevernever get getting installed, stuff like that.
Its still alpha in everything but the name. Release it now and you will get what you can expect, total cancellation within a year, bankruptcy of a company. On a good point, it was always said that on release backers could get their money back when delivery of game was not what they hoped it would be.
They had to call it beta because charging a sub for an "alpha" wouldn't fly and if it's still alpha then it's subject to wipe and that would cause even more to not want to pay. They [filtered]ed up no doubt, their best solution was go another year of alpha but guessing they didn't have the funds for it. If so then the project was probably always doomed.
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It's almost as if having a
Player run markets in a game the devs say is player driven would be the way to go. If I own tiles I can yeet any players ship if they leave it there too long. If I own a space station I should be able to do the same. Let players control the land and property they own. We don't want/need aphelia. Give us player run markets.
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8 minutes ago, Leniver said:
This is not an active gameplay, it's more building limitation / rules.
Doing that you are pushing for meta ship building, because people will find the best way to build ship.
If you force people to be active in front of his computer then you promote activity, instead of promoting auto-pilot.It'd already meta ship building. XLs best engines for the job for anything that carries actual weight. And NQ doesn't develop active gameplay you know this. Missions, afk. Industry, afk after u set it up. If you are waiting for NQ to develop then you be forever waiting.
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29 minutes ago, Leniver said:
The 2 su limitation is due to the safe zone around planet.
If you increase the radar range you could detect any ship going outside a safe zone.
Radar change can't be just an adjustment of range. If you want to make it interesting you need to create a whole gameplay around the radar.Hunter would run a scanning for long-range target and target need to hide when he get detected.
Something active that can't be done via Lua, to promote active player versus auto-pilote.
That is active gameplay involved because you have to choose how you build your ship. Second, camping a planet should be totally viable. It doesn't stop people from warping. Camping planets would actually provide some conflict and reason to fight.
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They literally stated in a video a long time ago that 30k was the cap because of server limitations. 30k is here to stay.
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The year was 2012. I was in a wormhole alliance in EvE online. The hot topic lately between corp mates was this new game being crowd funded at it was getting a lot of money. One particular guy in my Corp was adamant that Star Citizen would kill EvE when it would be released. Almost 10 years ago to the day. Time flies.
- OrionSteed and Shaman
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13 minutes ago, Thunderblaze said:
If you're in a random section of space thousands of SU out there, it is effectively an "instance"
That's not an instance.
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4 minutes ago, blundertwink said:
Eve is successful at its niche, but it's an old game and clearly ripping elements off piecemeal (e.g. their crappy skills system) isn't great.
How warp affects PvP isn't relevant to me because combat is drastically incomplete as a concept in DU in general. Clearly it needs work in balancing and core pillars of PvP like territory war (which is pretty fundamental to the concept of the game) don't even exist on paper yet as far as we know.
IMO, even 30 minutes of travel time is a lot to ask of gamers in 2021...especially when travel is boring, crawling slowly through an ocean of nothingness. Adding risk to that travel doesn't make it better -- it could make it more boring by forcing people to monitor their ships the whole time.
I agree that AFK-slow boating for 4 hours is beyond stupid -- it's an actual waste of electricity. I'm not some die-hard environmentalist....but it's pretty inane to burn carbon so that people can AFK in a game while their virtual ship flies.
What worked for an MMO that launched in 2003 doesn't work for an MMO that has yet to launch in 2021. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt young gamers have the sort of patience where they can spend an hour (or even 30 minutes) just flying across the void...and MMOs do need young people to survive as a product.
So...there's a billion ways to balance warp without removing it completely.
It still comes down to force projection, NQ has said TW in some capacity Is coming, so they seem to want to continue developing pvp. If anyone can be anywhere instantly that's terrible game design no matter how you slice it. If warp was going between many solar systems then flying to your POI then sure, but as it stands warp an in conjunction the big distances ruin the game. I mean this is a space game all about ships, that are used for everything we should be flying them.
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No instances.
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9 hours ago, Honvik said:
Just wondered on this as I'm not overly for nor against it but in many games items are usually slapped into Escrow if you go inactive and can pull it out again. I'm talking here long term people who quite a while ago. So why are not they not doing it here? Wont the fact people may rejoin only to find everything 'gone' just put them off and therefore hitting your audience ?
Seems a double whammy
They will come back for the wipe. ?
But seriously NQ is figuring it out. People lose their shit in EvE if they don't secure it and it's just fine. And if your goal is hoarding shit then that's on you. I even quit eve completely once but then cake back with brand new characters I made and played again for many more years, because the game was fun to me. And I quickly doing fleet pvp even with new characters. Moving forward NQ just needs to say Sanc is only place that won't lose stuff if that's what they want everything else is subject to being lost whether is pvp or inactivity. And who gives a [filtered] about the people who unsubbed 95% will never come back anyway and like I said only thing that matters is if the game loops are fun (that's an entirely different debate). This really isn't an issue at all its just a few neck beards shouting at the wind.
Could this game eventually "kill" Star Citizen?
in General Discussions
Posted
Ya, its just obvious NQ is telling us that the server is their biggest problems. All developments have been to reduce cost to "keep the game afloat" at the cost of REAL development of cool gameplay. So agian, what is the point of this single shard, when everyone is on their own 10 tiles, teleporting thru VR to calibrate, and making the majority of their own products thru industry, selling stuff to bots, and AFK traveling thru space for quanta. Where is the need for single shard universe when NQ isnt even utilizing it in ANY sense. As many pointed out unless you go to market 6 you aint gonna see people, and even then its like 5 people there at a time. just all around terrible.