VandelayIndustries
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Posts posted by VandelayIndustries
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Than we agree. It is bad. And nothing you described is something kind of crazy indepth pvp. What u described shows that majority of guns are useless. And you can also pair different guns and get Close enough on ranges. Just aim at getting to a point of your closest one. Nothing you described sounds remotely fun, as shown by the lack of interest.
The reality is there needs to be legit negatives when you chose something. One thing we have shouted since alpha days is a power management. We should not be able to put 300 breaks, 12 engines, 12 guns, adjusters, dsats, rez nodes, shields, and be able to Power it all. There should be thought in how we manage our power out put. That along with different core speeds and core bonuses we at least be a start. The other problems being no ewar and terrible radar system but NQ always reminds us they are small indie studio so who knows if the game will even be around by the time they can tackle those issues.
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What NQ could also do if they are gonna stick with "cores" forever is have different types of cores per size. Ones that have different power grid, different bonuses. But not like their current tiers where it just goes to exotic. Ones u need to make choices on. One that makes u faster, but lowers your shields an resistances. One that let's you use an extra set of guns, but at the cost of speed. Stuff of that nature. The more choices we have the better. Especially when those choices come with big negatives. Between those lines is where you can find the gameplay.
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1 minute ago, W1zard said:
well, cross-section, which defines hit-probability is stopping you from increasing your acceleration.
Also fuel-consumption, engine and fuel mass which increasing your warp cost.
My point is every ship in the game is the same. If u can get a certain acceleration, then I can too. There is no magic to building.
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30 minutes ago, W1zard said:
There IS already a basic RPS mechanics, called shield resistances vs ammo type. Have you calculated how much more damage a fleet would do if they balance their ships with cannons/missiles instead of using only two types of ammo?
But yes, I agree this can be addressed more.
And this prove my point even further. I'n EvE you have to make these choices AHEAD of time not on the fly. That's bad gameplay, because people are already doing that. You can use 1 alt and 2 weapons and hit all dmg types completely rending your opponents choices moot on what his resistances is. That is NQ not knowing shit about making a game.
They think "oh if u have to choose and can adjust then that's gameplay right guys!!" Not thinking it doesn't take a genius to figure out, hey maybe I should shoot as many different dmg types ass possibe.
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18 minutes ago, W1zard said:
You are trying to imply one game experience to other which have other mechanics. In CS:GO every player can move with same speed and acceleration, that's not the case with DU.
You can have a ship with much higher acceleration than your opponent to be able to get in close range for more damage.
That's also not true, we use cannons, and successfuly cored few Legion laser ships, without losing any of our ships.
And we use cannons because they have much higher in CLOSE range btw (So no, we don't choose sniper rifles).
They already told in latest QnA that this will be changed.
There IS already a basic RPS mechanics, called shield resistances vs ammo type. Have you calculated how much more damage a fleet would do if they balance their ships with cannons/missiles instead of using only two types of ammo?
But yes, I agree this can be addressed more.
Basically the PvP in this game is not fine, I would not called it even "acceptable", but not because of points you have raised here.Your examples are outliers. Every ship goes 30k. If you accelerate slower than someone else literally nothing is stopping you from increasing your acceleration. Nothing. My points stand, and sure other weapons can be used but range matters, a lot. And cannons only got buffed a few days ago. But so what, that goes back to my original point, condtantly shuffling around stats will never "fix pvp" because it lacks depth.
Oh fucking wow. You cored a ship with cannons after they buffed them. Let me guess, with a L core too.
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2 minutes ago, Endstar said:
We have asked NQ to consider this:
Release with a new system. All new accounts will only spawn in that system.
All existing accounts are stuck in Heilous until a stargate is crafted. Make the craft time long like in the 90-180 day area.
This gives new players a clean start without veteran interference. It gives existing players an option without a wipe where they cannot snowball over new players. By the time the stargate is crafted enough time has taken place to allow new players to grow without interference.
Lastly it will add subs for NQ as some of you will not wait you will just sub a new toon to see and start in that system until the gate is open.
Sort of a middle ground between wiping and not wiping.
Player base is too small for a new system at this point imo. I personally think the solar system is too big, too many tiles. Feel its better to see if NQ can actually make a profit POST release, then use a new solar system as a good content patch a year or 2 later.
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lets also be real here. With the always low player base we have had, and even fewer liking pvp. It was often hard to get crews together. Like in theory its great, and the times u can organize is fun. But it could be a huge bitch, and often times was way too punishing for people of small groups of 2-5 that wanted to play. Not saying i have the answer when it comes to multi crew, but it always sounds better on paper usually.
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42 minutes ago, W1zard said:
So with all recent updates multicrew is literally gone from DU. You can totally handle all ship by yourself even in tough pvp scenario, and it benefits you to have multiple ships, than flying a big one ship.
1. Combat engineer role:With all damage increase and addition of shields and CCS it's now not needed to repair ship while shield is active and almost impossible after that.
2. Multigunner ships:
Again with shields it's now more profitable in total HP amount to have seperate shields rather than having one big ship with many people on board.
Here is my few thoughs how these can be reintroduced to DU without big changes.
1. Make shield absorb only part of damage (e.g. 80-90%).
This way, despite having a shield active you will still need a combat engineer to fix your elements while in active combat, and not being impossible to do so (like with current damage L weapon will oneshot every element)
2. Make a dedicated engineer role.
Indroduce a new seat and interface for a new role that can do some old and possibly some new things.
Here is some ideas what that role could be:
2.1 Analyzing and changing shield resisntaces only from that new seat. (You can still fly by yourself with default resistacnes, but it will benefit you to have dedicated person on board)
2.2 Very basic power managment with three options: Weapons, Shields, Engines. (Make it same like resistences, so you can have a default even layout, but one can be lowerd to increase others). And make it available only through this new seat and interface.
2.3 Long-range radar available only in this new seat. (Like 3 or 4 s.u. detection range).
With adding benefit of other roles on board it will be more valuable to have multiple gunners on same ship, because if you want to separate them on other ships, you would need extra engineers there, and that will make it not really viable.
I get what you are saying, but with GeForce now ill use my alts in those seats.
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16 minutes ago, Zarcata said:
I would not have created my account and my children's if we had known there was going to be an economic wipe.
You said it yourself right there. lol. They knew less people would sub and play if they were open and honest. This is the company we are dealing with.
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44 minutes ago, Sevian said:
So when a tile becomes "abandoned" because they owner has a life and doesn't want to constantly pay un-needed land taxes for a space game: they still have 2 weeks to take all their crap back even though someone else claimed the tile?
So I claim an abandoned tile, pay the 500k, then pay 1mil for the next week taxes, and the midnight before the second week is here: they come and take all their stuff.
How in the world is that fair or fun or even logical? I claim the tile, I own what is on it. Have the devs or "project managers" never played a game before?
Its their dumb idea of "we gave them multiple chances to keep their stuff!!" When in realtiy just make it a solid month after taxes before its abandon, and first come first serve on who claims the tile.
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NovaQuark. Its plain and simple. Not saying the actual devs that write lines of code, but whoever puts out designs, decides on which ideas get tracking, and is in charge of those is the problem. Whoever that is, or people it is needs to go. Until then it wont get better. Those people have a complete lack of understanding on games and gameplay. And mechanics involved. Here is a good exhibit.
For one they basically just been tweaking numbers instead of actually developing anything, and only recently got shields. But look at that Statement. "shotguns" of dual universe. Thats all great and all. But have they wondered why people use shotguns in other games, such as counter strike, dayz, [insert any shooter]? TERRAIN AND BUILIDINGS BLOCKS LINE OF SIGHT AND BULLETS. That is a fundamental design in those games. Areas are designed with close quarter combat in mind. Same way some areas more open so snipers can have advantage. Now imagine you load up a CS:GO match, and instead of buildings you see only a flat land, and your LOS is the whole map and can see other players. Are you gonna choose a shotgun or sniper rifle? You have to work with your game, and the game rules you have. Now imagine in that same CS:GO match, you have a sniper rifle that does 5% of damage per shot. But a SCAR with an ACOG does 3% damage. but he can get 3 shots off in the same time as the sniper rifle. And the SCAR can shoot as far as the sniper rifle. For anyone who pvps knows what im talking about. Thats why everyone switched to lasers. DMG + range was all that mattered.
ALL cores go the same speed. Thats not gameplay. I need some sort of reason to choose 1 ship/style whatever over something else. Otherwise there is no gameplay. Look at eve. Such variery not only in size of ships, but what certain ships can do in those sizes. And if you are good in 1 area, then you are bad in another. You HAVE to force choices. Thats why the free building doesnt work in open world pvp. Sure for safe zone hauling its whatever, but still leads to all haulers basically being the same thing but not as much impact cause its not pvp. Until NQ realizes this, the pvp in this game never stands a chance. Its a game there needs to be rock/paper/scissors. There needs to be hard choices in what to use, how to use it.
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6 minutes ago, Zeddrick said:
Without full chair boosts, which take well over a month to train, PvP ships will be seriously gimped. While the groups with existing talent pools will be able to get competitive PvP ships right away. Similarly with industry someone with all-5 industrial skills can sell at a 30% profit and still be selling at a price which would mean new players are making a loss! It would completely imbalance the game!
It is true that organised groups will spread out training and get back quicker, but guess what? New players are just as useful to that effort as older ones. With a talent wipe smart orgs will want to attract new players and involve them in the skill training effort either to get boosts faster or just to have more options in case people quit. Without it everyone will want existing players but new players are just a drag on time and resources and will only be useful if they can be convinced to grind and give the proceeds to their org.I'm just playing devils advocate on this subject I don't care either way. But the reality is, some people have been paying sub since day 1, and if u wipe they at least want something and talents would be the easiest for NQ. And NQ is known for always going path of least resistance.
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2 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:
I dont think conflict can become the main driver for this game.
At least not the current system and definitely not just PVP
The current system provides very little choices for the player.
There is a simple rule to make a good pvp ship.
There is a simple sequence of talents to give buffs to the ship..
After the ship is design and the talents are learned, there is little to nothing a player can do to win a fight. There are no tactics involved no choices.
The pilot may aim the ship but there ia only 1 proper way to aim the ship. No choice.
The gunners could be replaced by computer macros with 20 lines of code.
This simplistic system provides no variety of solutions, only one.
This then translates on highly predictable outcomes.
Predictable outcomes equals predictable winners and predictable losers.
The winners being expected players with mighty orgs supporting them.
The losers being the new players.
Not only will this drive new players away. But even the experienced players will find this way of winning battles, based on meta designs, fixed talents and the infinite repetition of clicks, a boring and uninteresting mechanic.
This I will agree with. There is way more unpredictability in EvE that's why people get hooked on its pvp. You can go your whole lifetime eve career without having the exact same fight.
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1 minute ago, Kobayashi said:
Please define 'everyone'.......
I dont play like that, I know LOADS of people in game, I have bought my ore from the start, I go to racing nights and casinos. I made all my money from selling mainly T1 stuff, both on the market but also via shopping locations. I just wish NQ made it far easier for me to do so. I wish NQ never helped people fix ship but instead promoted player made services.
The people I play with, one has literally only ever mined about 200kl of ore since alpha, and instead he sells ships, which means he spends loads of time talking to loads of people in the community on Discord. He has made BILLIONS that way. The interesting thing is, the majority of people I know who are 'happy' with the game, play the way we do. Dont get me wrong, there is still a long way to go.Just because some people don't doesn't mean anything. The game allows you to be a jack of all trades even with out alts. That's not civilization. So what if u don't claim 20 tiles, I can claim 20 or more solo. Take EvE for example, that is way closer than DU had ever been and probably will be. Majority do not build in that game. A few build a couple things. It takes literal years for a builder to get the skills, BPs, knowledge etc to build majority of stuff in the game.
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14 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:
Interesting video but also goes to highlights the massive differences in people priorities. I would HATE survival elements to be added to the game, or NPCs and have zero issues with the lack of physics or the nebula (I actually prefer it). The thing that really annoys me is the lack of community based elements in game, players markets, the ability to advertise locations and services etc. I should be able to search for race tracks, entertainment venues, security and rescue services within the game interface. That is what I would have focused on to build 'a civilisation' improving the way players and orgs could interact with each other. The stuff you want, means zero to me, infact would make the game worse. The fact that you have been telling NQ what you want since alpha, does not make you right, it is your opinion.
Also the lack of territory warfare gets my goat, not because I want to attack people but because i want the risk of being attacked. Oh and energy, that balances the whole game.
Actually, if they added territory warfare, energy, player markets and some sort of player directory, I would be a very happy bunny. Not sure that is happening by launch though.You can say it all you want but this game isn't a civilization building game when everyone had 20 of their own tiles and makes majority of stuff themselves. Civilizations come about because you need people. A doctor doesn't moonlight as a cab driver on the side.
Just like NQ can call this beta all they want, per industry standards game is Alpha. I can call the earth flat, doesn't make it true.
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1 minute ago, enjeyy said:
Great video, sHuRuLuNi, many things on point, especially the most needed pve/pvp mix, the inability of players to provide such content themselves and the detrimental skill system. One thing though, please leave out survival mechanics like the constant need for food and water. Enviromental hazards by all means, like the need for a proper underwater or space equpment, but not the constant need for grind. This turns fast into a chore, take the water in Last Oasis for example. Such survival mechanics have their place in the respective genre, but are not so different from the current tax system, forcing players to focus on something else than what they actually feel like doing.
I agree, eating and drinking can be tedious. Also ask yourself, what gameplay does that add? Now enviromental, that fits i think with the game already, and can add actual gameplay that can be fun and add some challenges. Not every planet, but some more hostile ones can need certain suits that your avatar can buy/equip. We already have recyclers, so adding in oxygen to suits could be a thing if done right. We just need something that gives more meaning to our avatars, where they arent invincible. When we never die its just boring and no risk. And even if a planet isnt a pvp planet, it if has some enviromental challenges to overcome, that can be a good group effort to take on those challenges for the rewards that it could bring with rich unique ores, or gases, or whatever.
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1 hour ago, Knight-Sevy said:
If you want a wipe you must also request a talent reset.
I may have expressed myself badly. But resetting to 0 is really NO talent point in your talent tree.
Doing a wipe won't do any good without it.
My organization will have from day 1 all the talents of industry. The only need will be to grind ore and sell it massively to the bot in order to buy the schematics and build the factories. I give us a few days / week to find an almost identical production capacity on vital items.Of course from the first day we will have pilots with maximum talents for all our trips.
Not to mention that we will have all of our very high level PvP skills available as well.
A wipe to give a chance to people who wish to take the belateau along the way is a big joke.
I get what you are saying, but a wipe with keeping talents and BP is what most people would be ok with. As they have paid. Sadly its NQ's fault for backing themselves into this corner, but it seemed they were close to broke thats why they went to beta (alpha) and charged a sub before they should have. But the reality is, people did gain billions on exploits. Even if your org can recoup super fast because of your talents and knowledge, it is seen as "legit" by the greater community and NQ. So people dont have an issue with that. And even with a full reset of talents, a bigger organized org that has beta and alpha knowledge, plus alts, will get to 90% of where they were anyway in like 3 months. The way the talent system is most lvl 5 skills only give u taht extra 5 %. Its not like EvE where u actually need certain lvl 5 ships to even SIT in a ship, let alone all the other skills to fly it properly. So keeping talent points on a wipe wont be as bad as you say at all imo.
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31 minutes ago, sHuRuLuNi said:
Sure, but what he is saying is that they actually are an organized lobby who DOESN'T CARE about the game. They only want to destroy stuff - so they bombard the Developers and push them to add more and more PVP features, but once the developer does this - they leave and go to the next game.
So, the point is: they do not care about any other feature of the game and they do not care that by pushing their agenda they are actually destroying the game for everyone else.Sure but ive been around DU for 3+ years, and i care about the game, and ive bombarded the devs with wanting more and more pvp. So...how much influence do you think they have? Vast majority of people who i played with in DU wanted more pvp. Let them think that they make a difference with their 12 dudes who probably circle jerk in their own discord. Doesn't effect actual development.
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23 minutes ago, sHuRuLuNi said:
This comment from this lad speaks for itself I guess ...
When you really look at it, this comment has no substance other than trying to appear like they are unique or something. 90% of gamers move from game to game. Some for pvp, some for single player, some because their friends are playing a game, anything. Not many people play ONE game and do so for year straight, or many years. If anyone does they are in the vast minority. Even people who have a main game like when I played eve religiously, I still occasionally player other games.
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17 minutes ago, FryingDoom said:
My largest worry is the people who are paying a monthly subscription. Now If they were to do a wipe that kept Talent Points and BPs then I think that would be fine. There money was not wasted.
My other question is the DACs I believe they were called (Monthly subscription). I would hope we get to use them when we choose and not have them automatically chewed up whether we like it or not.Since its suppose to be a tradeable item, they should never be automatically used. At least thats how plex in EvE works and its been stated many many times DAC is the equivalent of plex. Its an inventory item you can put on the market, or then "redeem". All tho they would need some updates on the UI to show when your sub runs, and such. NQ is pretty bad at UI stuff so we will see.
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1 hour ago, Jake Arver said:
Some will hate it, most who say they will leave won't and many who put the game on the back brunrner will come back and give the game another shot.
This is the reality, majority who say they will quit on a wipe wont actually quit. Some will, but they will be a minority. And the publicity for NQ to get more content and even TW in then advertise a clean slate for release has way more upside for them to make money, and try to plan a future. May or may not be a good future depending on their upcoming patches, but a wipe probably gives them the best chance.
- Novean-32184 and Squidrew_
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its a start, lets see what we get. Hopefully this time they dont get the intern who normally just gets coffee to make the skybox.
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13 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:
I agree that a wipe with BP and accrues talentpoint back in the pool wil lhappen yes..
I think NQ woudl like to do that prior to the update that brings in Territory warfare as that would also remove safezones on outer planets. Combines with all the changes leading up to that, and what Id say is a fair assumption this woudl be one of the last big patches before "release", a wipe at that point woudl make sense in many ways.
Seems to me. Like i said, if they are against a wipe 99%, it only benefits them to take a hard stance on NO WIPE. but if they are gonna wipe, it benefits them to wait til last minute to announce. Just the way it is.
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3 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:
(removed the first answer in this post as it is not relevant)
While the wording is careful as always, I believe that the call to wipe has been made internally, the "intense discussion" may be a PR spin or about the when. But I'm even more convinced that we'll see a wipe before release now..
And I would agree it wil be needed once NQ has completed most of the work during "Balpha" and actually moved to Beta (which they wil label as "release")
The wipe is coming. But you keep all your BP and your talent points total will be in a pool to distribute again. NQ gains NOTHING by telling us they will wipe except like a month before release. If they were 99% sure no wipe, they would gladly say it. So logical deduction points to a "partial" wipe at release. Economy reset basically means everything but BP and talent points. Which im fine with, we should keep our talent points, thats our reward for beta testing and paying.
The reason pvp sucks in DU
in General Discussions
Posted
There is a reason people want S cores and such to have a legit role in pvp. They are cheaper and more accessible. I know people in EvE that are 10+ year pvp vets, and they mostly fly frigs and interceptors and they are damn fucking good at it and being tackle, or anti tackle in roaming gangs. NQ needs to address this asap imo. S cores need a real legit role that is vital in pvp.