VandelayIndustries
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Posts posted by VandelayIndustries
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51 minutes ago, Physics said:
Very good post. I hope NQ is able to route out the cause for the machines stopping and find a solution to stop this because the time consumed by players to check and reset will be extremely tedious.
As tedious as checking 20 Mining units all the time? I kid I kid!!
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45 minutes ago, Anopheles said:
As it should be. If the game is to be a representation of a dynamic universe, things need to be able to change. If I fail to play, the world should roll over me.
and the hq system is fine - if confined to actually playing players.
Agrees. If you own a citadel and stop playing the fuel runs out. Goes into low power mode. Then after that goes into abandoned and all can be lost, even in highsec. Only real safety is NPC stations. And Sanctuary is the NPC station of DU.
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2 hours ago, virtualburn said:
I really appreciate this post and although you explain quite well how to make a living selling T1 Ore on Alioth, you also highlight everything that is wrong with the current game mechanic. What about those of us that came to this game to design and build and now live on an outer planet? I'm on Jago and this update has killed my gaming entirely. I have spreadsheets, I generally do use them to keep on top of games similar - it's impossible not to. But is this what NQ wants, casual gamers are not going to look at this game at all or they are looking at one-time monthly subs never to be seen again.
I'm still trying to get it to work, I've even invested in Industry as well as mining (60 Mil and counting) after the previous update killed the months I'd put into that - to make Warp Cells as the travel costs eat into any kind of profit I'm likely to make - as obviously Market 6 is the only place people go - utter crap (where are linked markets?) I have access to Chromite/Chromium and Petalite/Lithium - neither of which is selling on the market and the price just keeps getting lower as people try to sell. This week it's gone from 300+ to less then 100.
So, I appreciate you are doing fine but there are plenty of people that are seeing the only option is to head back to Sanctuary OR become a mining zombie on Alioth. Talk about limiting your options. There is no passive play in this game anymore, it's a chore and monotonous mining tasks. It's great you have Alts, but for those that don't options are limited.
I love(d) this game, why is it always punishing me so? Reach for the stars and go broke.
The range of play in the game is so limited and restricted now I can see why my own Org and others have moth-balled and left.This is what happens when you take all T1 off a planet and when you have warp. Looks like its back to alioth/sanctuary for you.
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The 2 su range limitation is ridiculous. And was it even thought out? We have radars and guns that go way past it. Railguns can shoot a good bit past 3 su. Now I don't expect NQ to make some crazy changes that's not how they operate. But they can balance things. One thing is when building a ship. There is no down side to doing something. You just add more if you want. Well bigger engines just perform better, that's no question. It's why you see XL engines even on S core haulers. And if they don't use XLs it's often just for asthetics.
My proposal is if you have a core with even 1 XL engine, you can now be seen at 4su with a space radar. 3su if you have a L and no XLs. And if you have M and below it's the current 2 su. This would add variety and a good give and take for your builds. You want the best engines your gonna be more visible. This opens up railguns as a true range weapon to excel in those instances. Or use smaller engines to reduce ur range if you want to minimize your visibility. When everything is always equal it's no fun and leads to stale gameplay. We should be making choices about our builds that have positives and negatives.
Now some would be able to obviously shoot you and not be see based on their build, I think it would also be a good idea that if that's the case an someone locks you, then in turn it let's you see them back as to be repeatedly shot and not be seen doesn't seem the best. But it gives those a choice when to start and engagement or run. Or when you see someone you might not know if they can see you because without locking them you wouldn't know what engines they have. Opens up a lot more gameplay.
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5 hours ago, Jake Arver said:
Actually, you pretty much can.. Maybe not 1 minute, but you can travel massive distances (way further than in DU) very quickly in EVE
There are several systems in EVE which wil lallow fast travel, including jump drives, Thera and filaments. And Wormholes are actually a pretty good way to get across the entire New Eden system fast, provided you have the right tools and information.
Yes there is thera and wormhole, but that is random. And moving plated battleships is not easy, but yes sometimes get lucky. But lets talk caps. L core in DU is the biggest core, and i know its not a 1to1 comparision, but even with jump fatigue, good luck moving capitals across the map under 8 hours. I know people that when there was probably guaranteed content and ask them to mid their caps 2 cynos., and were like :"too much work too long". Which is a good thing because it stops major force projection. It lets tons of mini battles and skirmishes happen and allows medium sized corps and alliances to have success. Thats not gonna happen if TW opens up in DU as if someone wants to join a fight, they can bring their whole arsenal to every engagement if they want. But ya sure, if you never want this game to take off and let civilizations forms on planets and let people be a bit seperated than ya we can see where this is going, and its not looking good.
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3 minutes ago, Warlander said:
If I cant mine and reliably transport the goods I work hard to aquire and or produce and im paying a premium to do so im not just going to give it away to someone. If they go with no warp or at best a decent disruptor system Ill just say screw it and build rather than play the game which seems like most people do around here. Without warp im not transporting anything since the risk does not match the reward for me based on how long it takes to aquire ore or build the ships vs how easy it is for someone to blow it up in less than 5 mins. Or forcing people to walk.
Like I said, You cant have your cake and eat it too if I buy the cake and you want to smash it in my face and then buy you a new one then force me to walk to the store to get it. No thanks
you said that already and it has no meaning. You cannot teleport anywhere in 30seconds in EvE online. The solar system here is terrible design and warp should be for transporting other solar systems. I already explained how your arguments dont work. You wont be coming and going from outer planets ANYWAY with warp once those safe zones are removed and pvp is there, as you described it wont be worth it. Ok now that we got that out the way we can move on.
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10 minutes ago, Warlander said:
They could have scaled the solar system to match the top speed from the get go but they chose to make the solar system like 10 times larger than it needs to be for whatever reason since it had technical limitations. Thats their design choice not mine we could have had 3-4 solar systems in this game had they made better decisions but they didnt and then added warp to speed it up.
I get you dont like warp but its far from free depending on how much you move. All space games typically have a warp drive or sub light speeds and NQ copied that since they went with fossil fuels and capped themselves at 30knph which leave no room for any real sci-fi elements other than teleport pads, AGG, and Warp. The thing is that just removing it kills PvP further if that is your intent. Personally I would just not care to leave planet after that because I am not just going to hand over hundreds of millions in days, weeks, or months and hours of engineering better performance to PvPers when I have to spend money to avoid it and PvPers dont.
Thats not even mentioning that there isnt even a law system in game that has any form of consiquences for PvPing people in the first place since there is no crime, no stolen cargo, no loss to markets, or any retrobution once you take my ship to a bubble.
You cant have your cake and eat it too if I buy the cake and you want to smash it in my face and then buy you a new one then force me to walk to the store to get it. No thanks.
That makes no sense as you have the safe zone. And while plans change they still intend to do Territory Warfare. So if that goes ahead as planned then you gonna be stuck in the blue circle cause people who can will pvp all the good tiles on the outer planets. And what you gonna do when you warp there but it's a pvp zone and land in the pvp zone? Because that's NQs intention and always had been. And Deckard said TW info is coming soon so looks like that's how it will be. Guess you will be stuck in blue circle or quitting anyway when that patch hits.
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We can even sometime set a little challenge, you get an L core pvp ship. Choose whatever set of weapons u want. I'll make an S core ship. You can choose wherever u want to be camping a planet and I'll let u know exact spot I'll be leaving the safe zone of planet. Once u see me on radar I will try to out run you (anywhere but back into safe zone) and you can only accelerate to 20k speed. See if u can kill me. Can even do it a couple times. If I get off your radar (in pvp zone) I win and it'd counted as successful evasion. If core me, you win. And get the loot!
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18 minutes ago, Warlander said:
The way I see it Demeter pretty much finished off PvP except for larget orgs that have mining opperations on different planets with various people on their own. Even with T1 it takes like a month per box of ore and higher tiers are worse looking at the actual ore market in how much ore is entering the game. You used to be able to go wherever you wanted and mine or set up a base as a local launch pad. Now that ore is just under a month per box base and a lot longer for other ores there is nothing really to trasport and those who do are moving small amounts cheap via warp. I am sure there are still people moving large amounts of ore logistically but they budget for warp cells to keep what they earned as the losses post demeter are a whole lot worsse if you lose a ship than before.
The main issue with turning off the ability to warp is such that to avoid PvP you have to pay high prices and before demeter it used to cost us bare minimum 50 mil in warp cells to do so. PvPers dont have to pay anything to PvP and I could see the case for a warp disrutpor but unless it involves betting warp cells to stop the ship with some kind of spool time for warping for the chance to disrupt them with using warp cells and paying just as much or more than the other ship is using to disrupt them,
Just removing warp will not help the situation. Lowering the speeds on cores when smaller ships naturally go faster and if you need to hunt people down faster there is the option of more engines or adding thrust to your ship to overcome distance before warp or just shadowing someone until you get close enough to fire on them and destroy them is more of an option than just firing when you get into range so your weapons hit.
Its certainly a tricky thing but where you see it being unfair paeople pay a lot of money so its not like they get off scott free. Personally I warp to save time as I dont have all day/night to sit there traveling and just want to get there faster. Maybe you like road trips but I dont.
I like flying my ship, and having purpose. What game is there when u warp everywhere, and everything is the same? Not much of one as you can see. More people flying in space and moving about is a good thing. Sell your ores at the planet you mine them to someone else, many possibilities. What I propose would save the game, as it's dying pretty bad right now. It's stupid you can teleport instantly and all the places you go are the same. That's why warp needs to go and a rework of the solar system is needed when they wipe for release.
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Also, without stacking, you would be forced to haul in a M or L core for this big missions. Now I could patrol in an S core and have better odds to camp and find those mission haulers. But in return M cores with guns would be better for defense at an approaching S core. That's called gameplay when many choices need to be made because 1 ship can't do it all.
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There isn't because 1 every ship does 30k and 2 su range is so small. People would do more pvp if there was some variety and not as costly. That's why L core speed needs to be reduced drastically. And yes 2-6 hours is crazy bad, but 30min to 1 hr on average isn't if there is danger and a better radar, and there is still the safe zone, where madis and thades reside that should be 20-30min trips. Instantly traveling anywhere is bad game design for single shard game. You can't do it in eve and that game has been around for 20 years making a profit. If I have a shield on a S core and go 28.5k and you are L core that goes 20k. More times than not I'm gonna outrun you before you can kill me.
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No warp would create way more markets that's just fact. If you live on Jago and need to buy a couple things, you gonna fly to jita? That in turn opens up gameplay for people wanting to create a nice factory there. There is only upsides to this.
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8 minutes ago, Warlander said:
I know that you think getting rid of Warp will open up PvP but it will also be short lived as there are not enough defenses in PvP so in theory its just hey go get some friends and youll be fine but without factions or whatever it will just drive more people out of the game then adding PvP. After the PvP dries up what are you going to want to strip from the game next to find the next group of unwilling participants?
Without warp I can only be at one place at one time. That matters...a lot. And second changing core speeds does add more for defenses. L cores cannot dominate in pursuits. You have shields, and M and S if they want to evade will be able to run away majority of the time. As your shields keep them up. Second, if im in a S core pvp ship, i have limited range. so once again if i match your speed by do so 1.4 su away. i am SOL as i cannot deal damge to you. That is a major defense. The reason haulers never got away before was because my pvp ship was ALWAYS faster, and if I could see you on radar, I could shoot you and dmg you. Changing core speed changes that meta BIG time. This is fact.
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3 minutes ago, Warlander said:
It me having a sci-fi game without warp pretty much turns it modern day. Its like one of the few sci-fi elements we have left since VR is now useless, teleporters are useless, and after that whats next AGG?
There should be more to do as far as PvP and I get warp stops that from happening especially if you are patroling space looking for someone to fight and every time you target them they bolt and warp.
I think that NQ needs to add PvP cores that if you want weapons on a ship you have to use a PvP core. So that you can potentially still fight people you find in space but with PvP Dynamic Cores you could fight people in the bubbles to have more chance at PvP to occur locally. With PvP Static Cores as defense platforms with auto AA scripted defenses you would have something to fight against in addition to looting whatever you kill.
Slowing max speeds shouldnt matter unless you want to destroy engineering ships in general since no matter what the smaller ships get up to max speed faster naturally due to less weight and you could use a L core to make a small ship if you wanted it.
I think NQ needs to create some kind of disruptor ammo that if you are able to penetrate the shields and aim at their warp drive it should stop them from warping.
But the thing is that there is no real defense in the game even with shields since it adds core stress for whatever reason. Do you remember the time the Enterprise got fired on by Klingons and they shot the shield and disabled the whole Enterprise because the core blew? It didnt happen because it was a sepperate power source and once the shield drops its when things start taking damage.
There are no real defenses in this game other than offense since there are no automatic turrets or anything run by ai to help defend you other than die which is why warp is still in the game since it took years to just get shields and they kinda suck.
There is so much going wrong with PvP in general its not funny.
The problem is the talent system or requiring gunner seats outside of the pilot being able to fire their own weapons or being chased as a frieghter and not having any kind of adaquate defenses in general since before this you needed mining, piloting, then container PDs, and finnaly weapons/ammo requiring like 50-60mil exp to make a freighter have reverse defenses.
At this point piloting is pretty much a solo experience for most people and not having any real weapons unless thats what you did with piloting, radar weapons, ammo, hp, etc is still a path but it takes too long to get into PvP let alone add tons more containers and everything already bogging down freighters from being defensable fortresses rather than battleships does not exist.
Bruh, you have to understand NQ's development speed. It aint gonna happen. We got to modify what we have to make something playable. Warp makes sense when you traveling the galaxy. We arent. If you think the answer is to let pvpers "pull people out of warp" to pvp them...well thats not gonna go over and i dont think NQ has the ability to even develop that. What i propose makes way more sense within NQ's abilities, and it puts people out in space....FLYING. Its a space game I want to fly my space ship. But you never run into people when everyone warps. Or mission runners fly 100 su out of the pipe and your radar range is 2 su and every ship goes 30k. How do i find that person. Even the asteroids are borked because if you dont camp it, then any non pvper just sets a timer in how long it took them to find it, and bugs out before that timer hits. So then my main option is to camp 1 of 200 asteroids hoping someone shows up? Again, bad gameplay. Also they respawn so having wars of MAJOR fights over them also isnt happening. Bad design.
NQ is nearing release, so any ideas about major development....not gonna happen. Look at their tract record. But what can happen is modifications of what they have that can immediately improve the game, and lay some ground work for later development.
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3 hours ago, PleiJades said:
What does "civilization building" actually mean in your opinion and what is the purpose of it in DU?HERE. IT MEANS NO WARP, and it means that the purpose is for people/orgs to own a certain percentage of tiles then get to choose important things about the governing of that planet, or the bonus's that go with it. And people will naturally fight over those coveted bonus's (think of those as resources) and thats what happens in real life civilization. And i cant teleport to Germany from my location, so you shouldnt be able to warp. Your home where u chose to be should have meaning. Nomadic lifestyles should be possible but not really beneficial in certain ways that staking a claim. MAybe you chose to live on Jago because the people that own it also use 90% of their taxes on fleets of ships to protect and kill ANY pirates around that planet, and have networks to facilitate haulers coming in and out. Maybe owning a tile on Jago also gives you crazy good boosts on refining ore, but since you cant just WARP THERE INSTANTLY, maybe living there is the best option if you want that specific bonus. idk, civilization means making choices. Right now i can put a territory tile on every orbital body, or space stations, and get there in a matter of seconds/minute or 2. Terrible,
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...but so does 4hr of AFK slowboating and 2su radar range. Warp doesn't really have a place in a game with 1 solar system. The fact you can be anywhere in the few seconds it takes to warp destroys possibilities for creating real homes, and then civilizations you care about. It also is terrible for pvp as it enables force projection. Imagine in EvE if you could get to any system in the game in 1min. It would become unplayable. Now i dont care one way if they wipe or not, but if they do for release this is their chance to really save the game.
Remove at least 4 planets. Too much redundancy. Now you also bring the planets closer. Keep madis/thades/alioth in safe zone. Bring those planets even a little closer. Make 4-5 other planets around 30min - 1.5hr travel. And maybe 1 far planet at 2 hours from alioth, one of the ice planets.
Improve the radar system. How far you can see, and building options that effect your sight within radar (enables gameplay for haulers evading). Imagine if a radar system could tell if u have XL engines so you can be seen farther. Then L engines have certain range, then M and so on. Giving haulers options like these would be great gameplay in trying to evade or hunt people. Different speeds, different radar ranges. So many possibilities.
Next you deal with the core speed.
L- 20k
M - 25k
S -28.5k
xs - 30k
This gives now purpose to other cores, not only in haulers, but in pvp. Large cores are more of a siege/protection core. Biggest guns, biggest punch, but slower. M and S become your main haulers most likely (or even small runs with xs). S cores now as a hauler provide a super advantage as a blockade runner, and escaping M and L core pvp ships. Of course S cores can also be pvp and chase those ships, but for anyone who has actually intercepted knows that shooting someone going 30k only works so well because rails/lasers can hit at 2su. S guns have a way gimped range, so that leads excellent pilots to evade. Real active gameplay. Shields also enable this because 1 or 2 lucky shots from a L core wont blow your engines or your adjusters.
Having no warp also brings people real choices in where they want to live. Flying thru space can be fun and active with a better radar system. Choosing your ship core can matter, and a balanced fleet can matter more too, giving roles for people, and also lowering the entry cost because S and M cores as faster interceptors work now with their speed bonus. Add in the ability for bonus's and taxes for an org to own a % of a planet and the ability to field fleets of ships of different sizes around their planet and you actually got yourself a space game on your hands. And all without doing to much but changing the planets position after a wipe, and altering cores max speed. And put some love into the radar system. Thats one thing lacking in DU over EvE is, you had to choose where you lived, and then you lived there. And it still lends to the nomad style for people who chose that, and the haulers, and the people exploring for asteroids or other content NQ puts in the pvp zone. So please, if you do chose to wipe NQ, please for the love of god get rid of warp and give your game a chance.
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5 minutes ago, Warlander said:
I had not seen their comment on it but it does make a lot of sense.
It could be possible to spawn or have some kind of warp instance that is a smaller version of the solar system that is like 30kmph but still allows people to chase and hunt other players if you warp out. They could also effectively create additional instance of even smaller versions of space for faster versions of warp than that so at least it counters avoiding PvP by warping if they make an instance with the planets closer together in space with a smaller version of the solar system.
Woa woa woa, are you talking about a bunch of development stuff. We dont do that here.
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5 minutes ago, Warlander said:
There could be lots of different governments or societies players could vote on like piracy, military, trade federations etc.
But still if it is a 6 hour road trip slow boating and Warp was changed to just double normal speed once you hit 30kmph and it just cut down half the time of travel you still would have a 3 hour road trip instead of a 10 second teleport. If the attacking ships warp when you do then they can still chase you down.
Even if NQ at some point came out with Warp 2 it would still take you and hour and a half to do the same thing. Warp3 45, and so on costing a lot more for the speed than now at a premium. Players should always have the ability to chase you down depending on the makeup, parts, and weight or size of cores depending on who is chasing you.
NQ specifically said a long while ago that 30k was mainly chosen as the speed limit due to technical limitations. Thus when going faster and warping you lose all collision and ability to move. You effectively arent there. So when you warp you now remove all "gameplay" during that action. We arent ever going faster than 30k while being able to perform actions.
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3 minutes ago, Warlander said:
with Warping it would have been better if it was like regular space travel just upping the speed limit to 60kmph instead of a teleport so its not instant by any means but I think if it was tuned to get anywhere in the solar system in an hour it would be a decent tool that should act as fuel like space gas.
Still it comes to gamplay and choices. Flying your ship can be fun. But warping removes that, but also gives me 100% safety access to the gameworld in 10 seconds (or whatever it is now since they supposedly slowed warp). That's terrible game design. I should care about my home, and who owns majority of my planet/moon I live on as that's where my taxes go. Maybe they are shady And protected pirate people. Or maybe they use their money for a navy to patrol the space around the planet protecting haulers. I don't know but isn't that the point to LET THE PLAYERS CHOOSE? I'd rather warp removed and a good radar system with active gameplay. If a fight breaks out at jago I know a fleet at feli can't be there in 1 minute to respond. Thus civilization forming, alliances, wars, ya know...GAMEPLAY.
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You would also get more civilization if you couldn't get anywhere in the game world in 10 seconds. Imagine in eve if I could go to any system in 10 seconds. Would completely ruin the game. That's what warp does with a SINGLE solar system. Sure the 4hr travel times are too much but after years of Alpha and beta, you got data to show the game would be better if we removed warp, dropped like 4 of the planets, and the travel times were around 30min - 1.5 hrs. Actual emergent gameplay would form by people needing homes, and adding bonuses and reasons. Not just controlling major portions of a certain ore but collecting taxes to orgs who own planets. Throw in a real meaningful radar system....and wow, sounds like a game I would like to play.
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agreed. they need to start with removing the market. let it be player run where you buy and sell shit.
- Squidrew_ and blundertwink
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Outside the blue circle, where its "suppose to be pvp zone one day" those planets, and even the moons, should come up with a good number about how many territories an org has to own to get bonus's. One big one could be anyone else who isnt in that org, the taxes go to who "owns that planet/moon". or even 50 to alphelia 50% to the org. Whatever works. And it can be something along the lines of min tiles needed for planet 500, and also a over 25% of the total owned. These numbers can be looked at to see what would work and be balanced to achieve. And there could be other bonus's to each planet moon specifically, stuff of industry, applied bonus to advanced+ indy units, higher yield, or whatever. or even powergrid if they go down that route. These would lend more credibility to the game being "player ran".
@NQ Devs can you at least talk to us?
in General Discussions
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For the low price of $600 a month you too can have free tiles!