GryphTG
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Posts posted by GryphTG
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3 minutes ago, blazemonger said:
We can't say anything regarding the technical behind the scenes or optimizations being done for DU as no one knows if it was and frankly, with so much still being shoved around in the game over the next year or so, I do not see how doing so makes a lot of sense at this time, especially when much of what is yet to come will completely negate anything you measure or do now to "fix" anything.
Also, there is no LOD levels in DU yet that we know of (there is no element data in the library for LOD levels that I have seen), elements are drawn in or not (and yes, at short ranges .. to short IMO). That is a matter that has been discussed many times here and on Discord for quite some time. A major change in how voxel data is drawn gave us a huge performance boost a little before beta started but that is mostly NDA so can't really discuss that much. NQ has updated several models and there certainly is a noticeable difference in how they draw compared to older models so they certainly are working on this and we do see (slight performance improvements due to it.
Meanwhile what you describe is also known and shown to (in part and) in many cases be related to hardware (configuration) and in some cases was resolved/improved by making adjustments. But as you clearly are not interested in actually trying to see to what extent that might change things for you I guess there's no real point on discussing that.
Right.
For the last time. Nobodys setup will dictate perf logging. This can only be done on the machine running the PERF. Whilst it is beyond obvious that end user equipment impacts the overall experience, the question isn't and never has been about that, for the same reason I questioned why you aren't questioning 50 frames on your setup in light of other voxel based platforms benchmarking well. It's how teh application is setup to make use of your gear.
The question, for clarity is about performance logging. This is done locally and as part of development. Our gear won't ever impact this I'm afraid. It's going to have been done on a machine at NQ.
On the point of NDA. It's quite clear this is also a pick and choose issue for NQ.
in terms of LOD, you're finding the thread, but it may be of benefit to advise that there are LOD handling processes in place already. Which is a major part of my gripe - look at the ground in flight. that's an adjusted level of detail. Rocks and grass are no longer rendered based on distance from the ground.
Look, I'm not trying to be offensive here (and I'm more than happy to upset half the planet, it's the internet and we've all got thick skin or we wouldn't bother using the forum), but you're not correct. Sorry pal, but you're not grasping the concept of performance logging at all.Re: discord - I'd rather sh*t in my hands and clap than engage with that level of salt. It's beyond toxic.
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15 minutes ago, Penwith said:
Then submitting a ticket is your best route to find an answer to your question. Good luck with that.
Here, at least, we can only go on what we have experienced or what we have heard regarding what others have experienced as I rather doubt you're going to get a developer to jump in with a response.
Indeed. I can see the point you want to make, however in the opening post I expressed that a public response was desired.
What I would say however in relation to your second paragraph though:do you feel that on a community forum set up by the developer, with announcements from the developer that this acceptable? I think it's fair enough that the community does its best to answer its own questions, but if the developer uses the boards as a communication tool ( devlogs, announcements, yadda yadda) that a lack of engagement on other pertinent questions (not just my disatisfaction) that shows any regard?
The reason I say this is because it does, were someone to take an objective view, paint a picture of a business that has misrepresented a product, has taken payment from a variety of sources and is cherry picking its engagement with consumers when faced with questions of a technical nature.
Whether by intent or simply hesitation to respond to criticism, non-engagment does, can, will and has led to arbitration. I refer to previous precedent when a kick starter development house was the recipient of class action processes and regulatory attention for failing to deliver less.
Now, that's not my intent here. NQ has something really promising, but they're looking at potential to tank the project they have worked very hard on, taken huge risks for and on which the wellbeing of thier staff rests.
That's something that needs to be addressed whilst the community is small, because the larger the fanbase, the larger the risk of somebody raising what is potentially, merry heck. -
51 minutes ago, Penwith said:
Blazemonger and I disagree here, a lot, but he is also very passionate about wanting this game to succeed and to be great. I happen to agree with his stance in this instance (a shocker, I know).
Help us to help you.
Unless you really do not want help and just want to rant.
Again, refer to other comments. It's generally considered constructive to weigh in on a technical issue with technical discourse, not aspersions on technical ability and a rig pimp. Constructive discourse is and has in this topic, been responded to with constructive discourse.
if you want to have a discussion, then weigh in with something regarding performance profiling and I'm happy to discuss.
I don't want help, I want to have a discussion about what, if any, performance profiling was done. -
I'm enjoying it for the most part. Lack of content isn't an issue given it's a beta but I will draw parallels with other betas on that front. That said, it's player driven and my group and I are fully immersed in our current project.
My main gripe is technical standards and things that simply make no sense. Batching, draw calls... connection and to a lesser extent replication it's obvious the gun was jumped in a lot of respects.
The economy is another. NQ are definitely taking cues, but would do well to hire an economist if they haven't already or better support the one they do have as they're currently repeating the mistakes made by CCP and others in terms of the decision making. -
Just now, blazemonger said:
The given you do not seem to realize that he game is primarily CPU bound and is hardly optimized at this stage as the game is really not ready for that yet.. well.. 'nuf said I guess.. That you joined 10 days ago and have your opinion ready as yo have is also quite the indicator.
You're not willing to tell us your hardware spec. You pick and choose a single piece of data out of context and build your objection around it where your objection pretty much is meaningless would be another. I've been around here for about 4 years, while many here have colliding and opposite style and opinions, most have a passion for what NQ is trying to so and understand what they are trying to achieve is big and complex as well as really not done before. I have helped a good number of people get the game up and running and improve performance, can provide references if you like but you already have you mind made up regardless so what's the point right?
While you may be absolutely right regarding the performance i'd say that what you are describing, even in the current state of the game, is know to be often related to hardware and thus I asked the question. You seem to be more interested in ranting and than actually getting answers here. If you want to have a technical discussion with NQ, log a ticket. Posting here invites discussion with/amongst community members and will mostly likely not yield any direct comments on this from NQ. But as you are fairly new here I guess you do not yet have this experience.
Ok mate.
I'll continue the discussion with those people while you catch up. It's nothing to be ashamed of, but I can imagine it might get affect your credibility if you're speculating, which I understand might be a point of embarrasment, so I'll do my best not to add to it. -
15 minutes ago, GraXXoR said:
On my machine, NovaX base is just about visible 6km from Sanctuary MP3. That’s even after cleaning the cache. So even at 1500kph I get at least 10 seconds advanced visibility.
it could be purposefully made out of small voxels to spawn in late and crash interlopers. Apparently someone placed a mesh of tiny voxels near MP6 for the express purpose of causing carnage. (Or so I heard).
This is my concern, distance is great, however the order in which things are called seems at best... disordered. Good practice is to call draws from the origin outwards with low headroom set pieces and LODs being loaded in relatively early to give a complete scene on top of which the rest is drawn
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7 minutes ago, blazemonger said:
This here kind of invalidates your attempt to come across as knowing your/the business.
Besides the number being wrong (investment and crowdfunding is/was about 24M or in in total) that money is long gone. Consider that NQ started work end of 2014, as of early last year has two studios, about 100 staff, an expensive AWS cluster and back end servers to pay for on a monthly basis. I can only guess but I am pretty sure money is extremely tight at NQ as an best case scenario. Their last cash injection was last year July at €11M
The game is obviously far from in a beta state and frankly I would be hesitant to label it Alpha seeing how many major (at release) features, game loops and mechanics are not even conceptualized yet, let alone work on hem has started...
I'm not sure why some have such short draw distances, I see constructs from quite far away, certainly further that you describe. It makes me wonder what hardware you run on.
My setup: 3700X/RTX2080/32GB 3200/NVMe storage running at 1440p and I run at or around 50-60FPS most of the time which IMO is pretty decent at this stage.
Care to share CPU/GPU/Memory and storage medium for cache as well as monitor res?
Also, mostly to accommodate Pre Zen2 AMD CPUs, NQ included an option to reduce the cores used for voxel calculations for good reason as AVX handling is really not great on those CPUs. Can't say this applies for you but if so, just try and set that core count lower and see if that improves things.
Given your previous post history I'm more than happy to wait on a response with some actual meat on the bone rather than wild speculation as to my technical ability.
Whether my informtion is accurate in terms of funds raised does not change the fact that funds were raised, at which point given the knowledge you imply you have, you'd likely agree, regardless of local regulation that the overarching basis for any commercial transaction is delivery on stated promises, based on - wait for it - the advertisement of the product.
As stated, it's a PERF query - I'm looking at instructions to the GPU, in what order, and as it's PERF it would need to be based on thier equipment as I'm not running PERF - if you're not techniclly minded, thats okay, but rig wars doesn't really come into it, so if you'd kindly remove your appendge from off the table and reseat it, that would be superb.You don't employ me in any capacity and you're not my publisher, so your assertion of techical ability really, honestly doesn't matter. In the slightest. To anyone.
If you would like to have a discussion, I've provided a link to some guidance on PERF for you - I've linked to Epic Games, as they have the most accessible documention on performance profiling. It's really friendly and should give you the insight you'd need if you wanted to hold a conversation based on technical ability. There are others, but this is really good 101.
https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/TestingAndOptimization/PerformanceAndProfiling/GPU/index.html
I'd grab a glass of milk and a cookie as it's a long read and you might get peckish.
This to be honest is a suggestion only for your personal development, i've seen your previous comments on here and I don't really value your opinions. The fact that a 2080 only manages 50-60 frames , given your setup should have been your first indicator that there's a profiling issue, given its benchmark in other voxel based applications.
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So every day for the last 5, I crash to desktop on login. Every day the form to submit a bug report comes up and I fill it in.
Today, I log in, I crash. I log in, I crash. I log in and my connection is blocked by admin. I crash.
I fire it up again - dual is already running.
Task manager, close, again - dual is already running.
When I can actually get on I need to move some some bits around. So I fly. In the next few hexes, I see towers, so I adjust course. There is nothing in my current hex apart from a tower on my right side, but there a significant amount of space. It's slow to draw as usual, but that's fine. I've got room and I know that there's at least something to avoid on my right. Only there isn't, because at around 150 or so metres in front of me, another tower has been drawn in.
Now, I have to be objective here for a second. Is it a pain that there's allsorts of whackadoodle builds everywhere? Yes. Is it their right to build those? Also, yes.Would it be nice to see them? YES.
So in few words @NQ - draw calls. Either you ran PERF on the draw calls and decided that this level of performance was acceptable for a charged Beta, or you didn't run PERF (which frankly you know as well as I do, you should have done in Alpha)
I'd like to invite you to comment on the connection issues, the rampant lag and your approach to PERF - I don't need fine details but the spread of Frames per second and m/s to render (because lets not compare apples and oranges) would be good to know, especially if you feel the amount of PERF testing was justifiable prior to release.
I say this because there are now several adverts online that are in no way reflective of the product that do not disclose this. The most notable being what is evidently a scripted flight through mountains, at speed, with jink and with smooth frame progression.
The reason I say this is that as developer, I am a little pissed off that I'm legally obligated to ensure any advertising of my product is technically accurate and reflective of a product at the point of sale. If it isn't, I need to make that abundantly clear in my advertising.
Meanwhile NQ is sitting on 11 milion in funds raised and a live subscription model raising more income.
That is not only wrong, but it's offensive to others in the industry who are taking great pains to ensure they are compliant.
I'd like the community to be able to see the response, but more importantly, I'd like the response to a very straightforward question to be something that's easily visible, were it to be used as the crux of a regulatory complaint.- OrionSteed and Emptiness
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Hey folks - trying to get my head around the root cause of "pending operation" whilst mining and what factors influence it.
If someone @NQ wants to weigh in and advise, that'd be pretty cool.
I can't tell if it's a serverside issue or a client side issue. Is it lag, my rig failing to process fast enough, the server failing to process fast enough? A mix?
Trying to see what I can do to minimise it but at the moment I'm working of nothing but speculation I'm afraid.
Is this a joke?
in General Discussions
Posted
I present to you this carrot.
This is a carrot.
Now, several times, it has been inferred that what I actually presented was a potato.
I can assure you that a carrot was presented to one and all. Several people were successfuly able to recognise that it was in fact a carrot.
At the first instance of potato confusion, i presented a handy guide - a 101 to identify what a carrot is and what it means. SInce then, said carrot has repeatedly been referred to as a potato.
Performance logging = carrot - Performance issues = potato.
The order in which instructions are carried out, and the degree = carrot - The speed at which an end user can execute said instructions based on their hardware = potato.
My point = Carrot - The inference of 2 individuals as to what my point is = Potato
You don't have to like carrots - nobody asked you to, but I can assure of this:
This here carrot I showed you sure as f**k ain't a friggin potato.
As a simpler example:
Right now, if you walked in front of an automatic door, logic would dictate that the door should open for you. At present what's actually happening is that, the door opens, but only after several windows have opened and a desk lamp somewhere on 3rd has turned on. Nothing on my end is going to affect the door, the only thing affecting the door is the decisions made on how the door should operate when the door was placed.
What I am looking to discuss is whether or not anyone looked at the door when it was installed, tested it's function, watched the windows open and shut, watched the light blink on and off on 3rd before the door finally opened and decided that they were OK with how that functioned and that it would be okay to charge people for use of the door.
That in turn would lead to discussion on why decide to charge for the door, when there are other free doors that just open and shut. What drove the decision to charge for a door that doesn't operate in a sensible manner? Was cashflow a pressing issue. Because if cashflow is a pressing issue at the point of putting a door in and you've still got a house to build, well - that's a bit of a concern isn't it.
Furthermore, if said door was 6 years on from its initial funding round and over 21 million has been raised across several rounds of funding for said doors, you'd be inclined to ask where the f**k the money went and why the f**k the windows are opening at random because that could be fixed for free.
I only say this because the door I made opens and closes. I took great pains to ensure it does and when I advertise, I will be taking further pains to ensure that what I offer is what I made when it comes to asking people to part with money. If it's not quite done when I ask for that money, that's fine - but I'll be required to disclose in my advertising that teh advert is not reflective of the current product. 90% of my development has been ensuring sh*t is kosher.
It's a beta. I don't care that it isn;t finished - per my commentary elsewhere.
I do care about dishonesty and a lack of transparency in the industry I want to be a part of, because it makes it so much more difficult for everyone in that industry when somebody knowingly sh*ts the bed.
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To be honest, I think you're willfully ignorant - especially as others haven't had the difficulty grasping what you two haven't . The fact that I've unsubbed doesn't really impact any of the points I made.The appointment of more community staff and still no comment either way on the vast majority of technical topics is of relevance to me. If you want to pay, good for you, enjoy. Nobody is trying to ruin your fun. I'll be back at a later point once it's polished. It's not the first time anyone's joined a beta and decided - "nah".
There's 41 other voxel based projects that are live right now, there's several single server MMO's, there's several betas throughout this year alone that were released without charge with more content that didn't advertise what they weren't and there's far more community engagement from other developers.