[Subscription model: Addressing the elephant in the room]

It could be possible to do what paradox does with their games -- the expansion content is present for everyone but the player can't directly utilize it unless they bought the expansion. A stupid contrived example could be a component building expansion. Players who buy the expansion could design new components, but all players can buy/sell/build/use them.

I don't think that a thing like this would be estimatable in a long run.

 

Asuming that the game will go for very long time, the possible extensions to get the game and the servery running would be pretty big.

 

In the long run it would end that 50% of the game would be free and 50% would be imensly higher in price, given that only a smaller amount of players would need to afford it.

 

Having some strength in doing or making stuff someone else could not would result in some player have a huge advantage on the market against player not buying the expansions. That would mean its pay to win to some extend anyway.

 

I think as stated previously, that pay to play + plex would be best for most of the players. 

The prices would be splitted among all people.

 

10-15€ per month is something most of the people can pay.

And not beeing able to afford that, i'm not sure if spending your time in a game like this would be the best way to use your time tbh.

[Core DU Gameplay]

 

"Territory is closely linked to what we call the right and duty management system, so it’s all about how you will be able to say for a given asset who has the right to use it who has the right to sell it, who has the right to benefit from it.

 

So I won’t go into details, because it would be a bit long, but the idea of a territory is that it’s a land asset. Once you own a territory, which is basically something like a 1km radius area on a planet, you have the right to set the permissions for other people to mine this territory or to start building things on it, like having a house or something built on this territory. You may also set entry rights, who has the right to enter the territory. It’s not set yet whether this will be a strong impossibility for people to enter the territory, or if they will just be flagged as outlaw if they do , if they enter even if they don’t have the right. So this is still in discussion, but the idea of a territory is that you get control of land assets. And to do that, you will be able, you will have to actually plant what is called a territory unit into this tile basically of space on the planet.

 

And if you do that, then you acquire the territory. Of course people can actually take it back from you, you can attack this territory unit, you can hack it, you can take control of the territory if you don’t protect it enough."

 

 

- JC during the GrayStillPlays Interview on August 6th 2016

 

 

Based on that, and more information from the aforementioned interview, it seems that there will be "safe zones" that can be discovered, but otherwise a player controlled territory will be attackable and claimable. 

 

There was a recent interview where JC compared protecting your territory to trying to invade the United States. Wherein the US has built up a massive military infrastructure that would make it extremely difficult for an invader to take over. In a similar aspect, protecting a territory will require resources and money. It will only be as safe as the amount of effort and resources put in to protect it. 

 

So claiming territory doesn't just give you the ability to defend it without any resources or effort, you won't just be able to deny anyone the ability to attack you without first building defenses. 

 

 

 

People should not just get the ability to avoid all PVP just because they want to be builders in the game. You have to remember that this is an MMO where the focus is on community and emergent gameplay. If you want to avoid being attacked, you should join up with a group that is going to defend your territory. You shouldn't just expect to be able to play the game casually without any fear of being attacked, unless of course you opt for living in one of the rare discoverable safe zones. 

 

That's all part of being in a sandbox game. 

 

 

 

In response to Ostris - The procedurally generated universe is absolutely not the core part of the game. This has been stressed in several interviews. They know that they could use "billions of trillions of planets" for marketing, but that's not the point. They are more focused on having planets be full of players and having vibrant active worlds than they are just giving people the ability to have their own planet. 

 

If there's a "most important" piece, it's the networking technology. The whole game has been designed and built from the ground up around the idea of having thousands of players in one single shard world. They want to be able to support all of those players and their large constructions (ships, buildings, etc.) first and foremost. It is the biggest selling point about the game, having a single shard shared game world for thousands of players. If they can't get that one piece working, the rest will fall apart. 

 

 

Again, if you want to avoid PVP you will have to work for it, or opt for living in a small safe zone somewhere. It's an MMO, go find people who are willing to defend you, or join up with a large group that has the capability of defending their territories. 

 

That's not to say you can't be a hermit in the game, but it will be much more difficult for you, and ultimately you probably will end up coming back to civilization to access the markets for food/supplies/whatever. 

 

If people rage quit and stop playing because they were gunned down while carrying a ton of cargo, that's on them for not hiring an escort squadron to defend them. It happens in Eve Online all the time. 

 

It's not that the game is going to force PVP on you, it's that the game is giving you almost limitless options for choosing how to defend your stuff, and if you choose to ignore all of those options then you should suffer the consequences for it.

Thats actually not what he talked about.

 

He stated that PvP won't be avoidable.

What he demanded, was for the pvp to work smoothly. A bad and unbalanced PvP will be something with a hige potential to break the game given that PvP won't be avoidable.

[Core DU Gameplay]

Abut the possibility of any one destroy your buildings, i think they will create some kind of claim rule, where you could claim a bubble of area and only you and your allowed can edit / destroy

 

I don't think that will happen.

 

Read the blog dev blog about teritory.

 

Ther will be the possibility to owe territory and block editing by others. But only via a territory controle unit which will indeed not be to easy to be build, set up and destroyed by others.

[Money, its allways about money.]

Did you read even one post here?

 

Thats one of the two underlying questions her

 

Where does it come from and how does it go.

 

Stated possibilitys where the sbility to convert gold to money directly loosing the gold in the procces.

 

Problem: Big chance of infstation, depending om how high/ low the costs of gold are or how rare gold would be.

(Gold only beeing in example here)

Not talking about the lore issue to undermine it here. But i think that may be fixable.

 

The other way would be the posssibility to turn it back into an ore to use.

 

This is better to some extend because money gets an actual worth by this. Other than just beeing this magical money everyone talks about.

 

This has the folowing problem

Asuming money is not physical because we have accounts to store it. The gold you would need to convert from or back to would needs physical representation.

Turning money back to gold or from gold would be resulting in an loss of worth of the money asuming that the physical representation needs space and especialy protection.

 

A centralised way to store store the momey would not be possible because when i'm at the end of the galaxy turning it back would be a pain in the ass.

Making it even more expencive and the money less worth the far away you are from the ark.

 

 

 

It would need an decentralised version of the thing above, with still lore conform reason in how this works.

 

And gold would be needed to have another use rather than turning it into money.

[Tech Research]

Actually i like the idea, that there could be som blue prints to be found by exploration. Maybe seeing an old technology lying around. Analysing it may bring you a blueprint to use on your own.

 

This could varry from a handle of a gun with certain stats to so big stuff like star gate technology.

[Money, its allways about money.]

ISK sinks in eve online are small enough that they have basically no impact on the economy though. And since everything in DU is player made inflation is not much of a problem.

 

Edit: wrong qoute, NQ has confirmed though that there will be an ingame currency much like in Eve or WoW

Actually i think inflation is a big matter here.

 

Lets say i'll rent a terain to someone else. Given that you don't want to rearange every contract you have with everyone on a monthly basis, the games inflation should took part only slow. Or at best not at all.

 

Possible ways would be turning your courrency into fuel or something to build with.

The problem is to make that lore conform.

Looking at the energy idea it would be problematic given that energy is not just there but has to be stored somwhere physical.

Going to some place to buy stuff especialy if ite expencive would mean having a fleet to carry the stuff to pay for.

And let alone think about the storage problem if one has a high amount of money.

 

Loosing some money when you die would be possible to explain. Like you will loose items when you die.

But removing money from the pool by this alone, would not be enough, i fear.

[Is there a chance we will find another Arc Ship?]

We should also think about the posibility to have a new Ark ship placed where player spawn further in the games evolvement.

 

Probably if the planet of the original Ark ship is nearly out of resources.

Or other proplems acouring.

[Linked stargates]

Actually it has been said, that the want to make it hard to travel long distances. Especialy in regard of trading. 

Building Gates would make that pretty easy.
There would need to be a big downside in using Gates, like realy high costs in energy( maybe for the gate, or maybe for the ship using the gate, i'm not sure what is better by now)

[mod support]

I feel like nobody stated that making modding support will be impossible, because you can't make all people download your mod already.

 

[Money, its allways about money.]

Hey guys.

 

Everywhere on here i see people talking about the economy and how your stuff will be sold/rented etc.

Thats all good questions and need to be talked about. But in never have actually seen anyone discuss about how the "money" actually come into the game.

 

In the post about economy (can be found here https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2014/12/04/from-barter-to-market-economy/) the dev team did only talk about how your money would be able be spend.

And a hint that there will be probably a Barter System in the beginning.

 

For me that all sounds really exiting seeing a Barter System evolving to an actuall trade system around Money.

 

Asuming, that its still not totaly dicided, how money will come into the game, I just tought about opening the discussion here, to help the Dev Team gather some Ideas.

 

 

 

At the beginning there will probably be a Barter System. 
"If you give me 10 iron, i'll give you that part for your ship".

 

And looking at the history of money (also linked in the thread above), it will eventualy get into a Gift economy, where one will do something, for nothing in return (at least at first). 
"Can i use your oven too? I don't have someting to give you back right now, but i'll owe you one"

 

In the Economy this owing was hard to coun't with so one started inventing money, given by the Goverment.

 

 

Given, that DU dev team only want's a single courrency, to get things Simple (as simple as an econemy can be at least), there will be a way, to get money into play.

 

You could convert some Ore into actuall money. So the ore would be worth exactly that money.

But that would show one Problem. The money in the game will compulsorily start to inflate.
The more easy the ore choosen to be the money will be the more easy it will inflate.

 

There would be needed someting, to get the money out of the System again.

In an regular MMORPG an NPC would sell you stuff, to get the Money Back out of the System. 
In DU there won't be NPCs selling stuff.

There Could be things like The ark, Forcing you to pay Money, when you die. Maybe a procentual part of the Money you have so you will be revived no matter if you have the dollars or you don't. Setting an upper bound here would be good as well.

 

 

Laying the ground here and Some ideas, I'll start giving the discussion to you guys. What do you think of possible ways, to get Money Into and out of the System. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Subscription model: Addressing the elephant in the room]

I would not even compare it too much with classic MMORPGs. Because, from what I gather so far, the content will be vastly different and motivation determines what kind of people play, pay and how long. This here will be less of a theme park but let players actively shape a large universe or game space.

A massive emergent sandbox experience with MP on one large shard is worth some bucks per month. If it is really good or complex, then I can't see many complain. But that's just me.

I think you're right there. The biggest problem of most new Suscribtion games failing may also be because the game does not bring much that stands out from non F2P varriants.

Looking at Most MMORPG its nothing new anymore. There are many games about "Kill some monster by clicking at buttons on the screen"

Packaging the same stuff differently won't work for long against other Pay versions, that are better for the User.

 

On a game like DU where the player Shapes the the Politics, the market, the industrie, in an constructiv and possibly a destructive way to, that may give if not many (and it my be many i don't know about that) but at least a core Player base a good reason to play the game no matter what pay System there is.

There is no other game that gives these possibilitys to a player.

 

And a Core Base of players is all a Subscription Model needs to Survive.

[What are you gonna do with your new life?]

For me I have the urge to create and to destroy as well.

 

Why not buils ships, script dromes and sell them to only one of two rivaling Organizations.

Not telling the other.

I'll let myself get payed to not sell to the rival maybe.

 

For me fueling a big war would be lovely.

[How about Player to player Combat?]

sounds pretty good actually

[How about Player to player Combat?]

According to the developers, on how the game ensures to be working on a large scale level, with massiv amount of players on the same place is as following:

 

When players are exactly near you they will be updated emediatly, like in positions and their actions etc

the more far away a player is, the less frequently he will be updated.

 

How far this is going and how frequently the updating to range ratio is is not beeing said.

But in an interview he said that playing in an FPS way would probably not work.

 

I don't know if he meant ship to ship fighting there or player to player combat.

 

If the ratio is to low, i think fps would be a pain in the ass. And i'm affraid it won't happen.

[How about Player to player Combat?]

I would be interested in knowing how player to player Combat will work out.

 

It is Confirmed, that you will be able to enter bigger ships, by bursting through the Walls.

 

Its also confirmed in an interview (somewhere on youtube),that there won't be a shooter like fighting, because the way many players at the same space are handled, won't be able to suport this

 

In the interview it has been said, that the combat is more like targeting someone and then shooting (using attacks?)

 

What will dicide if my attack/ shot will or won't hit.

Are there some stats, like Acuracy with you're wapeon, you may be able to train?

 

And the Wapeons, will there be different Wapeons to be crafted? 

 

If so, are they beeing made by the player?
 

Where will we get the Blueprints off them?

Will there be a Leveling System acording to combat?
 

 

I would be pretty interested in answers, to these questions.

If anyone know something let me and others know.

[What happendes when you log off?]

I see another Problem with making a ship disappear when logging off.

 

Lets say i did Build i Big ship, which accts like a Big Market.
Some Highly develloped Drones, to secure my ship, and hire some People all around the world, to Guarde my ship.
Just like a Moving Space Market.

 

If my ship disappears that would bring a lot of trouble.

 

 

I for myself like the cryo thing. Maybe building an automated shig, which will stay in an orbit for some time.
But if i want to get a low risk, of loosing my ship, i think you will have to go to a save place.

 

It would be cool, if one needs to get the right, to sleep(log off) in a save zone, or something else, but logging back in after a week, and realising that the whole planet you logged of last week, is now owned by the enemy would be a big pain in the ass.

 

I think in this case, you should be able to choose, to be teleported somewhere save (maybe without your ship).

Of if something like that happend you would get something like a save traveling for some amount of time, where you will be able to move you ass to some place more save, but acting in PvP should deactivate this imediatly.