Pleione

I'm hoping for 2 things: 1) New planets 2) Much richer ores on those (PVP only I suspect) planets. Not sure who made the call to reduce ores on planets, but I agree with the Op, it sucks. The lore is inconsistent as well: Multiple people are undoubtedly wasting time scanning the same tiles over and over, but Asteroids are broadcast... Suggestions: A ) Bump the ore content when the new planets come online B ) Make tile scans optionally public. e.g. Have a special checkin site, perhaps near the Arkship, where players can sell their scanning results and those results become public. All maps will have the tiles with public scans show in a different color and the results can be read by clicking on a previously scanned territory. This would both generate a source of income, and done right (with date and scanner name retained) a source of pride. Limit the number of checkins to something like 10 a day to avoid some org with 10000 scans in its pocket claiming all the rewards.

How long is the timer? Hopefully not the old Discovered one since that would pretty much null out this change.

Yeah... stay 30 minutes after spending 4-6 hours finding the rock. That was NOT a reward, it was Ganker fodder design. Personally I'm thrilled they have recognized Solo players exist. Can't recall the last time over the past 5 years when they have tried to balance for us a bit. Maybe because they never really did?

Ah... us poor Carebears, vs. you WarMongers (hey, if your going to insult us...) finally get a small break. So sad.

Believe that leopard will never change it spots... they have had 5 years of coaching to up their communication level and have ignored it all.

I keep hoping beyond hope that they pull this thing out of its death spiral. Instead, performances seems to be degrading even as fewer players play. My org mate has been suffering from desync issues (steps out of ship, next second ship is hundreds of meters above him and falling fast!), I've been living with 5-10 second container/industry open times. My guess is they are shrinking server sizes to save money. Alas, we are about as far as we can go without having to risk PVP space. We have already lost a couple of nice ships there, and the risk/reward is just not worth it to us anymore. Its not like we HAVE to play the game - we just don't feel like getting ganked anymore. My org partner loves scanning, but even he is becoming intolerant of the low chance of success - he has done thousands of scans with little success just for T2s, and T3+ are suppose to be even harder - he is out of patience. Me... I'm an industrialist - I love to build manufacturing plants. I was fine calibrating, but we have shut down all mining sites that don't have at least a T2 one them - ore prices are just not worth it. On the plus side, I'm not wasting 3 hours twice a week calibrating. I also like old-style mining, but that is an asteroid only thing now, and anything worth mining is in PVP space. If they would remove the "Discovered" stage, so once we found a Roid after hunting for a few hours we could actually mine it in peace - that would be fine. But now we have to spend hours tracking down a rock, and have limited time before its discovered. Lost a nice ship full of T2 and T3 ore on our last run, and have lost a lot of explorer ships in between. Its just not worth it - we want to mine, not to be ganked. The main intent over the years was to force us to become specialized. Fine. I want to specialize on being an industrialist - but there is no market support for products that cover the cost of ore and schematics. "Grow our own" ore requires us to be miners... ok... that is just a supply chain issue... but to be successful, we now also have to be long range haulers (at least for the moment), with the most profit in PVP space, so now we need to be fighters as well. So much for specialization. Oh, yeah, we could run missions to fund ourselves, if the servers were not so slow that desync causes crashes (and don't even talk about having to file a ticket to get your ship back - we are paying monthly subscriptions and don't feel like waiting weeks for a response). Bottom line: After 5 years, its becoming less and less fun. Almost everything they are doing is to save cost, and hurts the gaming part of the game. Very very sad.

Yes - but think of the cost savings NQ can generate by not having to run servers!

Yes. Frequently in the past. Every time that has happened to me exiting the market and going back in fixed it. Its too the point that I use J and create a fake sell order to figure out what price I want, then exit and use the actual market terminal to place the order. That always works clean. Oh, for what its worth, had ores sell around 9 overnight. Hardly a celebration event, but still over 7. 4

I, for one, have not sunk that low yet. Alas, members of my team have - flying 5 accounts at once and using Arch-HUD to make the hops a matter of just doing Alt-4-4 once the endpoints are known.

Exactly. Something like 60% of USA citizens have less than $5000 in the bank - basically living paycheck-to-paycheck. Why do I want a game economy that reflects that - which is where supply and demand always takes us. By selling in my local market I provide a job for somebody else, with a big hauler and appropriate talents, to make a few coins shuffling things between markets. I'm not going to feel bad about that.

Fantasy reflects reality: Consumer patriotism is the American way

Check Average Highest via "J": J -> search for Quartz -> Create a sell order: Of course, prices will vary some, but have been trending down heavily over the last couple of days. Repeat for any other your interested in. Obviously its a glass-half-full thing - do you base it on what purchase contracts are for, or what 1 person might have 1 unit listed at? (Lowest selling price) I opt to use Average Highest, as stated in the original post.

Just checked (Nov. 25th, 2022 noon CST) the ore markets. Average High sell price is now: Bauxite - 3.38 Hematite - 4.25 Quartz - 2.04 Coal - 7.15 Somewhere around 7 is a line whereby a tile won't pay for itself without including calibration bonus ore, talents, and/or adjacency bonuses. (Math: 400l/hr * 24 * 7 = 67,200l/week. 500,000/67,200 = 7.4) Yeah, I know that calibration bonuses, talents, and adjacency bonuses all count, but one needs some profit to pay for schematics or buy parts with. So basically no value in selling ore right now, unless you play games with the TU system, putting one down per planet, mining for the 3 free days, calibrating daily, then picking it up after a week and repeating. Pretty sure that was not the plan. This of course presumes one is interested in making more than their Haven /Sanctuary tile produces, and not interested in becoming a bulk space trader flying through PVP space to reach higher markets (which are falling as well - that is just a shrinking market margin game that won't last). NQ? Is this what you intended?

Again, we are talking about a dead subject. The decision has been made to do nothing and let the T1 bots expire forever.

You missed their refrain "Blame the carebears". Stupid carebears... want to optimize their ships for hauling and ignore being shot at. Yeah, its the carebears that are causing the game to die... right... (Obviously I don't agree.) Pre-0.23 had a ganker explain to me all I needed to do was quadruple my empty weight in shield voxels and I'd be fine. Ignore that to maintain my speed, I'd need to add more engines, and more wings, and more adjustors, and more brakes, in an almost never ending cycle and still probably wouldn't have my original speed. But I was a silly carebear, unwilling to take 9 hours to make what was originally a 4 hour flight. Then NQ nerfed warping if you were even pinged by a laser - one voxel damaged and your warp drive goes offline for 5 minutes. Tell me that wasn't done on the behest of PVPers??? They literally bitched that too many ships were warping out when target locked... so NQ obliged them. Yeah, I'm bitter... but I explained why elsewhere (age and health related).

Fair enough... although in my limited experience, by the time they get there all they find is swiss cheese. Note my original comment about a non-Discovered Roid in safe space that had 26 ships on it 77 minutes BEFORE it was marked as Discovered.... during the work day (at least in the USA).

Similar except I hit my limit fairly quickly... needed T2 for space fuel, found a few tiles of that, and build my industries up through all uncommon things I was interested in. But if you want to use a T3 mining unit, you either need to buy it, or buy the T3 to make it. We (joined a like minded org by then) opted to buy the T3. We can still go that way, but... we... really... enjoy the old style mining. We miss it. But getting ganked for that pleasure is not worth it meaning that aspect of the game is closed off to us. I do have one simple suggestion: Remove the "Discovered" aspect to asteroid hunting. Territories don't go on a Discovered list 2 hours after somebody scans them (although in a cooperative world they would be - instead people have to waste time scanning territories that others likely already have), why should asteroids? Only reason I can think of is to make it easy for PVPers to gank miners. PVPers should have to track down Rumored asteroids just like miners do... that would reduce the risk considerably.

Thank you for the detailed response. Per the above, I come away with the feeling that I either have to join a PVP org, or not play. I don't agree that being an MMO means I have to play with others. I can interact with others via marketplaces, dispensaries, etc. and still have a fulfilling MMO experience in many games, just not DU.

I really like 1. Learning "talents" while not doing anything is amusing, but makes no sense. Miners learn by mining... Industry experts/crafters by doing... I'd add a 0. "Write some lore that makes sense, then make sure the game fits the lore" 3. would be great. It pisses me off to lose cargo - but I should be able to insure my ship and at least get that back. Then being ganked becomes a learning experience instead of a violation.

Not helpful.

Multiple reports of over a 1000 scans being needed to find T2+... Safe zone Roids being mobbed by 26+ ships with 75 minutes left before being "Discovered" (during the weekday, weekends must be worse) High risk of being ganked if you try an mine other Roids with just a couple of people and no PVP protection pilots. Shields that don't protect you, just reduce the damage taken (? based on description ? Rather unclear about that) Mass based speed limits that guarantee a ganker can close on a loaded hauler. Seems like we are forced to have someone man guns to fend off lone raiders, and hope that we can sting raiding packs before they inevitably kill us. Wondering if there is a Universe Patrol org that focuses on hunting down raiders and killing them, repeatedly??? If so, what do their ships look like? e.g. Is there a difference between a ganker ship and a anti-ganker ship? and who is going to be left to build ship parts for the PVPers after they force us from the game for not being like them?

And that is the type of fact based feedback I wanted to hear. Thanks!

No, it was not discovered. When we landed we had something like 80 minutes before broadcast, but spent more time than that getting the 5 veins of ore. Yes, it had an S generator that was enabled. No, we are Roid hunters and did not have an extra person to leave behind to man guns (which would have made us PVPers) or to alert us the ship was under attack. No indication our ship was under attack until our linked container disappeared. Yes, it had a resurrection node but without knowing it was being attacked, no indication to use it. Veins of T2+ ore were not close to the ship. 3M for https://du-creators.org/makers/LiftOff/ship/Cyclops DSAS Author has since lowered the BP price to 2M. Good point, we spotted Jago about 40km away. Will have to start examining locations prior to flying to them if we ever attempt this again. Right now Org is pretty much in a "F**K that..." mood, closing down one entire game loop. Appreciate the feedback, but please don't assume we are complete idiots despite our actions.

As stated by a PVPer. Just lost a 3M blueprint ship that took me over a week to build. My org mate and I spent the better part of the day getting to a common Roid 500 SU out. We were underground, with shields up, when an XS combat ship just landed next to us and blew it away, then flew it out - with 4 veins of copper and 1 of petalite. PVE'er: At least a week, maybe two of effort (as is 80 work hours) PVP'er: an hour or two This is balanced how? Shields were up but of course shields are worthless. Ship had a space radar but of course, 10000 years in the future, we don't have any ship to player communication to warn that someone else was coming. Not that it likely would have helped.

Well... that is the end of this discussion: They opted for Option X - do nothing. Guess that solves the problem right? At least it doesn't cost them anything beyond the post time.