blazemonger

What you all need to understand is that the mechanics of PVP will be much more intense and require much more collaboration than in any other MMO. There is no 'one pilot flying and controlling everything on a battle cruiser or capital' It's not like EVE where ever ship is one person. You'll need many, many players to man a single carrier or battleship. One lone Wolf can cause a lot more pain than in many other MMO sandbox games.. In EVE, when I need to I can log in my alt who can jump support to me, I can log in a third character for something else.. Each flying a fully fitted ship with no real change between a frigate or a Titan except for the power and weapons I have at my disposal, the mechanic is mostly the same. This will not work in DU and this is why the fears of those scared of ganks and griefers is not relevant.. On the other hand, leave your stuff unguarded or be careless and you stand to lose it all, there is no NPC safe havens everywhere you can just dock up and be untouchable. I can chase you to and in to your house and run you down in DU if you play tricks. Many of the EVE mechanics will simply not apply as there is no safety net for those who strong arm knowing they can run and hide if and when someone actually brings a fight.

Still the best..

As there is no Concord (Highsec Police in EVE) suicide ganking is less effective by default. A freighter in DU can also be armed to the point where a gank is way to risky.

This, very much. What a lot of people do not get is that (yes again as a compare) in EVE, many wars and even highsec wardecs or miner ganking operations are 'arranged' and/or paid for by industrialists and bankers who rely on the resupply of destroyed assets resulting from said war. It's all relative to "how much do I stand to make by doing this?" While obviously not real world, the economics and politics in EVE, and I would expect in DU as well, are very real and will impact a lot of people in the game. Too many people do no get this component and it's impact on a persistent MMO like EVE or DU. For DU to succeed and grow, ships must be destroyed and rebuilt constantly. It is a player driven economy which needs to be fed. War and conflict (read PVP) is what feeds the economy to a large degree. The DU markets won't survive on selling plants, chairs and tables.

That is totally not what anyone here is saying.

I'm a member of Signal Cartel in EVE and have started the DU chapter which will mostly follow the same principles.

Pretty much same thing, only I live in Sansha space so never have to go far While often flying an interceptor when doing relic sites anyway, No issue with bubbles and generally away from a site before a villain decloaks and locks. And in actuallity mostly it's just empty space anyway.. The occasional cat/mouse of getting away from bubbled gates in say an Astero is just fun. As mentioned previously, I only get to Highsec to run event sites really.. And then I take a relatively cheap PVE fitted VNI with fireworks to shoot at lootrobbers.. no need to get worked up and more relaxing an fun that way.. I already have a design for a deep space explorer base ship with several smaller utility ships in the hangers to be built in DU. Me and my crew will just embark and be on our way, to see what's out there..

The idea that DU will be a simple gankbox is far, far off from the truth. Many folk crying about this seem to reference experience in EVE and I'm willing to bet these are mostly Highsec Carebears who think that in EVE Highsec is safe while it is far from that, it's scary and dangerous. Highsec is more about risk vs reward than any other region in EVE since as long as your ship's value is higher than mine it is profitable for me to gank and kill you so my buddy can scoop your stuff.. Get rich quick. Actually, I should start a 'GankShip Inc' shipbuilding business in DU. .Probably make a good bit of Quantas ..

A single comment or incident does not warrant a trend or generalization Was he right? No.. But it's one lapse of reason. Some players will mine the salt and tears of those who do not understand how the game works.. Getting your ship blown up by a ganker is never 'nice' but it's a fact of life in games such as EVE and DU. As with so many things, do not fly what you can't afford to lose. The sentiment that DU should be a safehaven for carebears who are to risk averse and scared to accept they will need to stand up and defend what's theirs is at best misplaced. If that is what you seek, go play Space Engineers (great game btw.. just saying because there is no PVP if you stay in your own little world). Oh, and a CareBear is not someone who prefers to not PVP, it is someone who does not want to see PVP in what by definition is a PVP environment (and yes, DU will be a PVP environment). Many comments here basically are about a football player complaining there's big guys with Kevlar body armor trying to block them from scoring a goal. Unlike EVE, your assets are never safe. If your base/station gets destroyed it's contents can be looted and/or assets are destroyed. If a citadel in EVE blows up your assets get magically transferred to some other station as 'asset safety'.

Harassment for the lulz is relative In EVE one can choose to be a pirate, you hunt and kill those who are going about their business. This is not harassment, it is a play style. You can also choose t be a (religious) zealot who demands miners have permits in areas you claim to control and gank/kill them if they don't. That is also a play style This is not the Disney Channel, life is a bitch, HTFU. Personally, I go about my business in EVE and intend to do the same in DU. If I come across a hunter/pirate/whatever and they manage to catch/kill me good for them.. I'll reship and be on my way again. DU will be very unforgiving about mismanagement of assets, EVE is actually very simplistic in that regard and offers (IMO) way to many safeguards. It will be interesting to see how the game will handle players being in different time zones, EVE has a timer system where action will be delayed to allow for someone who may be offline and asleep while someone else attacks his assets is up and roaming. It will be a matter of setting up defenses an potentially hiring a security group to watch your stuff when you are away. Plenty of options for game play there.. Lastly, those who complain and cry about how some EVE players conduct their business will get a rough wake up call in DU.. Besides that, for those who do really do not understand the game they are playing or comprehend the concept of a full loot persistent MMO; If you get killed, you lose the stuff you have on you. If your base gets attacked/destroyed, you lose your stuff. Anyone complaining about this should have done their homework before getting on board. If you do not like this, there's always WOW or any other MMO which will let you just respawn with your inventory intact (or with minimal impact). Again.. HTFU

No, I am saying everyone should play as they feel they should, just that I believe that applying long standing mechanics in EVE verbatim would not be good and that DU needs to evolve on it's own. I believe (and we're seeing this ins EVE) that NBSI will lead to very thin agreements of keeping the peace which when they break, break violently and costly. I think it's a great topic for a good and long discussion someday as it goes way to deep to flesh out here. What I am sharing is _my_ personal feelings on this and how I want to play/what I believe is right. Your or anyone else's mileage may vary.. Some game play in EVE may appear abusive, griefing and overly violent but in reality many of these are a result of role play. Good example would be CODE who in EVE are a group fanatics who believe they have the calling to implement order in mining by enforcing buying mining permits from them or be ganked and killed when they come across you. It's a highsec playstyle which you may not approve of, may not appreciate but in the EVE sandbox it's actually perfectly fine and acceptable gameplay. CODE shows up in Nullsec every now and then, but they generally do not last long.. It's why many of us will say HighSec in EVE is actually more scary and dangerous that NullSec as in Null you will know what to expect and who to trust (or not) depending on where you are. There is no such 'security' in Highsec where anyone at any time may decide to gank you if what you fly has more value than what they stand to lose when they get Concorded (killed by HighSec police) because they engaged you. Almost no one does anything in EVE 'just because they can'. There is a deep and evolved doctrine and belief system in EVE because it is a game that has been around for a long, long time. As a result the community, politics and economics of the game stand on their own and may sometime parallel real world events or situations but should be left as they are inside the game. For me, I will not take an aggressive position, will not instigate fights or get myself involved in the fights of others. I will make sure though I am prepared to eradicate you if you decide to try and mess with me, my business or the people I fly and work with. DU does not have the (many) safety nets EVE has with regards to your possessions and that is fine, it does mean though that you need to prepare for the eventuality of someone trying to take what's yours and maybe destroy it or accept the loss. Saying you do not appreciate, like or want to partake in PVP at any time would be like playing a soccer match and not wanting to play the ball once it lands at your feet. You may not agree with a player pulling a shirt or making a hard tackle, but it will happen and may happen to you. The only way to ensure it won't is to stay at the sideline and not play.

I do not agree, EVE certainly caters to you developing the play style you feel comfortable with/know. EVE has no 'set' or 'winning' play style. It is a sandbox where you decide what happens. Whether or not what you do is shaped by choice or (previous) experience is debatable maybe, but I believe that in games like EVE, you will show more about yourself and what 'baggage' you bring to the game than in many other games.

There certainly is neutrality in EVE and Reputation Tank is Best Tank. As a member of Signal Cartel I can attest to the fact that we will more often than not be left alone with remarks like 'He is Signal, they're good people and no threat so leave him alone' We get to explore and farm sites where others get killed of instantly because we are Signal Cartel. We have docking rights in deep Null with generally aggressive NBSI factions because we are Signal Cartel. That status must be earned though, we gain respect and freedom of movement because we investigate, support, help and stay neutral. Signal provides support mechanisms at no cost for anyone, maps and reports on sections of New Eden and shares the information with anyone. The reputation built through this is what keeps us alive in many situations others die. NBSI also drives a need to be (set) blue by and with everyone else as it chokes the game. We see this in EVE right now as 'The Blue Doughnut' where big aliances and corps set each other blue just to be able to move around. Providence applies the "Not Red Don't Shoot" policy which means that unless you are a known offender of the rules/laws or are an enemy of the regions alliances, you are free to come in and do your business. Saying that to defend what's yours you must attack and kill whomever is not a friend is IMO the worst. It shows you are paranoid, self centred and ignorant. It also is a recipe for isolation and eventual solitude. Any and all institutions living by this rule eventually fall and get eradicated. Those who can only sum up the 'bad things' in EVE and can only voice fear that these will negatively impact DU are part of the problem and will generally be part of the negative spiral. EVE has so much that is good, that cares and that provides, DU can only hope it rises to that level over time. The trend I see now is that too many coming from EVE with that negative attitude seem to be willing to apply that exact same attitude in DU. Community mechanics, interactions and politics existing in EVE are there as they evolved over nearly 15 years of the game being active. Other games which saw the same mechanics applied immediately because EVE players moved in quickly went downhill, Albion is a prime example of this. It's like the kid getting abused at home, who then moves out and starts his own family only to find himself a child abuser because that is what he knows (I know this is a crude comparison and I do not, and I mean NOT, address anyone personally here) . And this IMO is a problem.

Personally I prefer the NRDS rule we maintain in Providence. It allows for neutrals (and not affiliated newbros) to do their thing. If there a risk? sure, but it does not outweigh the benefit. For those who do not know NBSI = Not Blue Shoot It (anything not friendly can be attacked and killed) NRDS = Not Red Don't Shoot (unless it's a known enemy, leave it alone)

Actually, I am very non PVP oriented, will avoid it when I can but believe in the credo of the corp I am a member of in EVE and started a chapter for in DU, Signal Cartel: TL;DRNeutral and peaceful explorers, offer assistance where needed.Signal members will never shoot firstSignal members will always look for a non-violent way outSignal members _will_ end a fight if they have to I am confident there will be more than enough to search for and discover in DU and intend to explore and investigate as much as I can. I am sure this will keep me busy and entertained for a long, long time. That said, I feel OP has a very misaligned idea about what EVE is about and what DU will be about, to the point where in his/her case it may be an awakening not expected. EVE is an extremely safe and guarding game where your assets are generally untouchable unless you carry them in the ship you are currently flying and it get's destroyed. In DU nothing is safe unless you yourself provide safety for it in some way, generally people will join an organization for this purpose. And yes, I do believe that I will be able to shape game play as I feel it should be, at the same time everyone else can too and so eventually this is bound to clash which is the whole idea. PVP will be an intrinsic and ever present part of DU and while you can try to evade it when you have no interest, you will not be able to avoid it unless you recluse into an obscure corner of the DU universe.. This is a social/interactive game and so that will happen to you sooner or later.. PVP is not just pewpew in space, it is any confrontation/interaction between players, be it in space, on planets in the market or wherever.

What experience do you have with EVE yourself really? It sounds to me you are only quoting stories in the press.. While obviously ISK can be translated to real world money as there is a reference point in PLEX, you can't really make the comparison like you do. Most Titans in game are built by alliances using materials they produces and/or gathered themselves. A fitted Titan may have a 'market value' of 100B ISK or so, which more like $1300 in real world money but again, you can't really make the comparison as no real world money is ever spent. By your reasoning I make a decent living of around $3000 in EVE every month..

Pretty much the above, yes. DU builds on what EVE sets up by allowing you to _really_ make your own world and go your own way. You do not just drop an icon in a window to build a ship, you actually _build_ a ship. I don't agree there is no immersion in EVE, if you feel that you probably never had the PVP shakes in EVE or you would be talking different ;P JC has repeatedly said that EVE is an example to him/NQ and it should be as it is a game that has set up and worked out a lot of excellent mechanics. But there is a lot to improve on and do better and this, it seems and IMO, is where DU comes in. For me DU basically begins at a similar point as where in the EVE lore human kind comes through the EVE gate and it collapses. In EVE this is backstory and you enter the game centuries of progression and development later, in DU you start from the beginning and we, as players, will build our own empires, nations and alliances and carve up the _whole_ universe ourselves. There are no stargates, no borders, nothing.. This is what is exciting about DU.. at least IMO..

@Eternal If you are serious about what you wrote, you will have a rude awakening in DU.. It's not like you can just park your ships and/or stuff in a NPC station and count on it being there when you next log in. If you are on a long journey, you can't safe log off and expect to be right where you were next time you log on again. DU is a truly persistent universe, you log off, your ship/stuff/structures stay visible and can be attacked/destroyed unless you set up defences yourself. There are no timers to give you a chance to defend when you are in a different timezone than your attacker. If you travel space while you log off, your ship might crash onto a planet while offline if you did not set your trajectory correctly. If having your stuff destroyed and/or not having protection is your concern then EVE is certainly the better choice as it actually has exactly that, protection.. Even when a citadel gets's dismantled or destroyed and you had stuff in there, it will be moved to a safe location automatically. None of this is available in DU. And I just hope you are not considering full loot PVP a bad thing. EVE is certainly not garbage, it may not be for you, but if it was garbage it would not be around 15 years after it was first released.. Does it have flaws? certainly, but then again, what doesn't. DU however will have quite a long way to go before it comes close to matching what CCP has achieved with EVE. Just discarding it as you seem to do basically tells me you really do not have much understanding about what EVE is and based on what you wrote the same would go for DU.

THIS very much.. IMO op both EVE and DU will give you exactly what you put in, be a scurred little mouse and there will be people who come and try to trample you. Claim your space and don't back down and you will gain respect, even when you lose. When you get killed, ask questions an what you did wrong and how you could improve.. chances are you will get paid the value of your ship, given some hits and tips and then asked to go and come back so your opponent can try and beat you again. Most players who are serious enjoy the challenge of explaining what you could have done better then have you try again. The ones that don't generally are not in it for the fights, just to have a green killboard. If you are in a corp of griefers or keep running into them you are in the wrong place, I'd even go as far as to say that when you choose to be around griefers that is your choice, not theirs. EVE is a HUGE world and there's a lot to find out and enjoy, much more than there is to be upset about. I think DU will have a good chance of getting to the same place and that is what excites me in the game as it offers much more of what I like to do and work with than EVE (while I enjoy EVE a lot)..

Once you built your ship and go out there I think the game will be very much like EVE but with a more first person feel and look. The social and political structures are kind of the same even though it feels to me the average age of DU backers/players is lower than that in EVE where it actually is relatively high for a 'game'. If there is anything that would concern me somewhat it would be that a lot of (initial) players will be too young to appreciate the concepts and intricacies the game will offer and this can easily be misinterpreted as griefing or trolling. In EVE most corporate and alliance leadership is very mature and has a very 'seasoned' view of the game. DU does not yet have this and the risk is that too many 'wannabee leaders' come in and start being adolescents. The fact that many organisations are seen to be wanting to expand up and outwards without a solid and responsible core member-group or leadership is a prologue to problems. There are exceptions but I've seen and heard some thing that make me cringe.. Once we get underway I'd expect some big trees to crumble and fall as they are top heavy.

While I would agree the war-dec mechanic in EVE is seriously broken and in general war-dec corporations are full of scurred carebears who are actually not interested in fights, just in kills (big difference!) and will dock up as soon as you bring anything that would remotely be able to kill them (and so it's really not worth the effort of trying). Simple solution is to get out of Highsec. Highsec is a scary and unsafe place in EVE. Go and join a NullSec or Wormhole corp, you will find it's much more fun and the sense of community and friendship _much_ stronger. Oh.. that would be IMO obviously..

Trolls, griefers and tears/salt miners are generally just lone players with nothing better to do.. Best remedy is to approach them lighthearted or ignore them.. The latter will in fact 'hurt' them more as hey are after your response/comments in local.. Ignore them and they go away quickly.. Griefers are best handled by beating them at their own game.. When you run event sites in Highsec in EVE and someone comes in to steal the loot, lock them up and shoot them with fireworks.. Several things can and will happen, including them mistaken it for aggression and shoot back, only to get concorded (great show when that happens, usually reverse tears..) or they may get he joke and play along 'OK OK.. I give up here is the loot' .. Both have happened to me and it is just in good fun mostly.. Trolls will always be around and are best just left alone and ignored.. all they want is attention so don't give it to them..

Not sure what happened to you, but it must have been bad.. EVE has probably the most awesome and supportive community I know both in the game and outside as well.. If DU will be able to even come close it will be quite the achievement. .It's why we have HTFU..

I never said anything different but let me clarify this a bit. NQ could potentially release information which would then no longer be covered by NDA as it was made public by them. This in turn may lead to others discussing these things and while doing so adding information still under NDA.

Most if not all important items for a dev diary would currently be under NDA as they would relate to the pre-alpha session. Anything NQ puts up on a dev diary would become public knowledge and would potentially cause NDA conflicts or breaches.