Jeronimo
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Posts posted by Jeronimo
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The point is exactly what you said. They are all in 1 place. Right now I can go to landmark to play with detailed voxels, space engineers or starmade to make spaceships, eve for a continuious play universe, but I have to do the seperatly. DU is giving us 1 game with them combined, plus more. You cant expect them to improve a single technology, while alao tying in a few more.
And DU isnt comming up with the single shard idea, what they are doing is combining single shard and single instance using their network algorithm.
Also you are assuming they arent doing it better. We havent even played the game yet, 25cm voxel limit doesnt mean better or worse. Remember you arent just building, but also flying these voxels. Let them get the game working, then theres time to add in smaller voxels later. Theres no point in going to a 1cm voxel if theres no game.
True and very true
but how many people you expect getting their most interest on all the contents reunited together, there are still a lot that will be focused on one
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The question is will the game mechanics allow a stock market from the existing tag system or will NQ impliment one.
In Eve my corp had shares for members and would do payouts based on it. its a bit of work managing the excel files doing it yourself but not much. The bigger issue, without a game mechanic, is the trust of companies holding shares to even payout. Afterall, who would hold the largest corporations accountable if they didnt.
sorry i have no idea about Eve, i never played
So if NQ plans to add one, its a serious deal
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remember the cobble towers in minecraft? well guess what will happen here...
perfectly shaped dirt penises
and for sure some contempory artists will make them visible from space, as chinese did with the great wall
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Making sure unscrupulous players don't sell loads of shares and then run away with the profits will be a real challenge but once organisations are a established and have gained reputation I think it could work.
You got here the master issue, universe will be ... will be... the universe
And it will be crowded with pirates and people who will abuse of the systems instored by organisations
Organization wide stock market why not, but not universe wide
The "take command" system, is in every way much more stable
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Voxels will have physics upon placement right now but ghost images could be considered. I don't think travelling will take months, just making instant travel jump gates will as you will have to tractor them apart (quantum link).
Floating voxels will exist, but they may be solutions for the terrain, but not for the ships. We will call that quantum struting when a flating part exists on a ship. But: it is possible to detect if a ship is cut in half thanks to baking (they talked about procedural mesh baking) so i expect them to be able to sample that baked mesh for separation. (There is probably a mathematical way to achieva that).
Floating voxels, hum, but no i cant make me the idea how the computer will decide if it is linked to an other object or not
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For the terrain we could just detect if the below neibors exist or not and if not detatch the block of dirt and let it fall and rejoin the ground underneath. See the terrafirmacraft mining system for more detail. It is not feasible for ships as the materials are too strong to be able to use that technique effectively even tho it may be adapted.
yeah i have opened a topic for that, based on "7 Days to Die" physic principles, but they mentioned already that mountains will be floating if you cut the bottom
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Multi investors projects is different from stock market
Stock market is public, so means DU would have to developpe an interface for that
Multi investors projects will be only based on a player made ingame contract and trust, but ingame trust and RL trust is a way different, and dont count on NQ to chasse the one who will break this contract
If a stock market appears, i promiss i ll launch a universe wide real estate
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Ability to build on physical moving space ship kinda tinckles me
We know the creation mod at first create non physical voxels until you activate its physics
Will the created voxel stand still on xyz position untill one wall of the ship bumps into it, and stops the whole spaceship?
Will created voxel automatically and instantly be linked to the physical properties of the ship, so that will create a physical voxel that will start bumping on the floor?
Will created voxel automatically and instantly be linked to the ship but with non physical properties, considering the air in between the ship voxels and the created voxels is solid?
What if my first created voxel is created in the air within the ship and not touching the ship?
What when i ll want to save my creation, if i save the whole ship blueprint with it?
I really consider this question tricky in terms of links and properties
What if it is technicaly impossible, and what will we do in spaceships during a month travel exept socialising?
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the shear effort involved in making self replicated robots, and having set up adequate AI to maintain it is worth a PhD, so it shouldn't be impossible, just really, really hard. I think they will provide api bindings to allow you to host a server to maintain infrastructure when you are offline, and if you have enough computational power you can let it autopilot drones and vessels. the problem is that NQ wont have control over the internals of your server, and will thus obligatorily have to compute physics server side and send back the input (sensor data, visual data, ship/struct status) and you can tell the ai to then send keyborard/instructions to pilot, manage your things. I think that is the only way to remain hacker free (with the input as only keyboard or other commands/instructions) because else you wouldn't be able to verify the validity of the turret rotation/position etc...
i would like to had the fact that creating any matter would requiere previously gathered matter
so the self replicating bot, could only be possible if you can incorporate to it an inventory
If can add the self mining functions, then its the end of the world
i think self production lines are more conceivable than self replicating stuff
Unlike in SL where you could put the object itself in its own inventory and rez it indefenitly
Sarah Connor?
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wow. just.... wow.... do you realize what you said? patents for voxel sizes are a problem? no. NQ is based in Europe, and in European jurisdiction you cannot patent a concept you need a working prototype (that's why you cannot patent pseudo scientific idiocies). you can patent a specific text (code) but is invalidated if you change the names of variables so they will not be sueable outside the US.... Additionally, they use voxel farm, a commercial voxel engine which demonstrated tiny voxels. And even if it was the case you could have scale up the rest of the world. In a program, size doesn't matter, relative scale does. how can you be sure the voxels are 25cm, what if they told you 1, you wouldn't have noticed because there is no absolute reference...
Additionally, dual contouring can be as precise as you want, it's only the detail (minimum thickness) that will be limited.
no need to be so rude, all this (voxels, mmo, space, politic) is a big discovery for most members
you sometimes, even for me, hard to follow because very pointy, that is very precious during this pre alpha periode for dev team (if they read all what you posted)
dont expect all members have same knowledge as you, and sometimes you should find better words for your explainations
there are tons of absurdities and misjudgement in the forum, but its like that
please take more time to teach what you know and can bring us
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How about just allowing voxel build smaller than 25cm for decorative builds, but limiting the number of voxels that can be attached to each others. Limiting drasticaly the scale of tiny voxels builds
What is better for servers or our computers?
100 people sharing a milion voxel ship or single dude with a folowing bot of 300 tiny voxels?
(well it can also be 100 dudes with tiny voxels following bots, in a million voxel ship, will be just 1 300 000 voxels ;-) )
And tiny voxels builds can be limited to decoration only aswell, so the physic problem is solved?
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Can they make smaller scale voxels, sure. But remember DU is doing a lot more than Landmark.
NQ is being co servative for anything that takes computing power. There are a lot of features that could be implimented, but you can only do so many. They have to set limits to have a versitile functional game.
whats the point in doing a lot more but no doing better?
NQ has developed their own single shard universe, very good!
But DU :
- has voxel build from landmark, and as demonstrated, the way is still long
- has scripting part from Second Life, simplified for better use for all of us
- has scifi infinite universe theme from EveO
Its like making a salad, you mixing all the good stuff you like, and put the right sauce on it
NQ single shard concept is that sauce, where everyone is like wow, so exited about, because it covers well the rest.
Do you really think will cover the after-taste of the rotten vegetables you put in your salad?
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his meaning is to have a https://board.dualthegame.fr
so why not https://board.dualthegame.de / .cn / .esp
but i guess he will need to get closer to unofficial forums directly managed by french communities
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They maybe magical but they don't have infinite computational power and memory. Each voxel takes memory, so more voxels means more memory, more bandwidth, more servers in the cluster and ultimately more money spent each month hosting the game. If they do introduce a "microblock" core unit, they should limit the size and functionality so its just for fine detail and decorative items other wise some one will build a kilometer long cruiser out of micro blocks and load down the server.
Honestly though 25cm voxels with the dual contorting stuff is going to be good enough for 99% of all ship designs, you can make fine details, landmark is based on the same tech as dual universe.
the micro block from landmark is still a 25cm voxel
the scale of 25cm was for a technology from before 2014. DU will launch in 2019, thecnology 5 years later will have improved a lot, enough to allow voxel of 15cm for sure
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Tell that to the people who created No Man's Sky and Space Engineers.
If people mastered it 4 years ago, then why has it only emerged now? Why has this idea of a game such as DU only been possible now? The only people who tried to develop this kind of game so far as since then failed.
this topic is about voxels
at least watch the video about landmark few posts before
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their tests seem promising, i wouldn't worry about that. my argument was mostly that there is no point to further reduce voxel size, and then proposed alternatives that would be cheaper.
give alternative example plz
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lack of ressources in the nearest planets around the ark, disabling the possibility for new players to quite the starting zone, will probably make the ark, THE recruitment plateform, and organizations will fight there to hire newbies and ship them back?
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I think there's a idea here, but what can we do with that idea now?
Voxels are volumetric objects. What games that feature building do is allow us to strap a bunch of those voxels together in order to make a functioning construct.
Now, we know core units will cost enough to make, so that it will be a deterrent to use one unwisely.
However, microvoxels are another construct and could take up more server resources depending on what they are used for. Let's say someone creates a massive ship out of microvoxels. It'd be cool, but depending on things, could increase the performance impact on the server. By how much though?
Creating microvoxels is a good idea, but the implications of it are what needs discussed here. We also need to know how the server performs normally, then allow a decision of whether or not microvoxels would work.
I think the server could handle them, but we aren't sure of all the implications.
They ve open to tourism space journey for 32 million dollars, and in less than 20 years you ll be able to have it for 5000 dollars
maybe not long after 2 years later, you ll probably be able to buy SSD drive of 1t, graphic cards with 8go, processors 16 cores, so data isnt a problem neither internet speed, there will always be a way to compress and process data better
its about evolutions and innovations
NQ have started something that some other companies have mastered 4 years ago
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Most people will have ships a few dozen metres long at the smallest, and I'm sure some organisations will be making enormous transportation vessels and capital ships that are kilometres long. With such enormous constructs and huge amounts of 3D space to keep track of on the servers, you want to make the server load more strenuous by subdividing the already quite small quarter of a metre blocks to something even less? Most things that one would want to build at that size is probably more suited to being an element to save on space.
have you played something else than Pokemon and Minecraft?
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Guys voxel building games with 25cm voxels already exist, and for a while
DU will come out in end of 2018, so it means 2019 to not scare people
In 2019 there will be tons of other sandbox games that will have optimised the voxel build mode to smaller, faster and better
If DU comes out with 25cm voxels, it might be considered as outdated
Here a link of this year released EQ Landmark, which alpha begun in 2014 and have tons of other functions in its build mode which when used well, can shape a 25cm voxel to something almost flat
https://youtu.be/_EHoStrfFtI?list=PLrKBISvpfhOKpXbFz_C-EVY5kNqIu5Bze
And to remind the topic isnt what are voxels, but how to improve them
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I first heard of this over 4 years ago, and it wasnt until 1-2 years they released how they do it.
From what I understand this system cannot be used by a voxel sandbox game. For games like GTA or COD it could work great.
As was mentioned, they take millions of data point scans, which could represent a voxel, but they dont necessarily do this. These points are then archived and sorted in a specific manner that allows them to select 1 out of a group that then corresponds to a pixel on screen. This soeting process takes time, think of it as their compiling.
So instead of rendering billions of points, then doing an average to display on screen, they choose 1 point to correspond to each pixel on the screen and render it.
The problem is, with a constantly changing dataset, as people mine amd build, it is not gaurenteed you can keep the file holding all the points in a specific order when its being modified.
Furthermore this only addresses rendering. Voxel games arent cpu hungry because of what they render. Think of MC and starmade and the low quality textures they have. The difficult task for these are to constantly calculate and update the positions of each voxel so that your computer knows what to render.
You would still need to calculate those points, then feed them into this program to sort before rendering. It strips the benifit gained.
i totally agree and more less understood it in that way
i wasnt comparing it in anyway with DU, i was just giving an example of how advanced where voxels in some other domains nowadays
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I'm not saying that there shouldn't be ingame currency, but that the currency should be created by players instead of being artificially generated by devs, as needed, in a way the economy would adapt to the amount of players, of trades, and events naturally.
A value of an ingame item depends on how hard it is to get, in other word in how much time you need to get it. NPCs will generate currency from resources you'll sell to them, and you'll get an amount of currency relative to the amount of time you'd have spent on getting those resources. My idea is similar, instead of having NPCs to transform resources into credits, you'll have the ability yourself to do that in a way there'll be no need to add NPCs again, and the economy will develop naturally, stable, forever.
Gold-farmer could just farm resources and sell them to NPCs or to other players in a market, my idea is not even related to this problem .
First: read properly
I wrote game curency (npc generated curency), not ingame curency
Second, study a bit more about economy and politic, tested and realistic models before exposing your dream idea only thinking about advantages for you, but not for others and developers
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3D pixels are not voxels. and its 3D points that are used to create a large 3D mesh which gives it that ability. also the scene is static so it can't really be changed without loosing what makes it look so real. The lighting calculations alone make things like that hard to do in real time so you get rid of them which makes it so that its not used in large worlds that have times of day unless you want to store each different area for each time of day.
Voxel = volumetric pixel = cube = 3d pixel
Meet and greet with NQ. 2 brothers from Belgium.
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Rbnb or coutchsurfing.com?
But true, would always be cooler to share that day with a parisian who also goes to the event