Anaximander

You got baited. I never called YOU an idiot or a moron. Neither did I claim to be superior. Good to see you suffer from an inferiority complex. I bet you must enjoy being the smaller dog. You seem to love barking on this thread. Good to see you are heavily biased though. I was initially going to be mean, but I wanted to check first for some issues on your end. Now I pity you. Of course, you'd see pity as an insult "how dare they feel superior than me" you will think ,then go bark a bit more. Check your ego, it's killing you man. :/

All I heard is : "Woof woof, WOOF WOOF *growls* ". please, contain your rabies. English not my first language either... so, you have no excuse? Dayum. Also, you are part of the problem with society. See, people like you, is the reason why people smarter than you too kthe word "idiot" - which means "Private Citizen" - in Ancient Greece and used it to describe anyone advocating for their civil rights as people - you know, like those pesky peasants who didn't want to live in a caste society. Same people took the word "moron" - which means Baby in Ancient Greece - and used it to describe anyone who made any arguement with an emotional strain behind it. See, you are the reason humanity is doomed. Smarter people than you, speak words that you can't even comprehend. Now, keep barking, the smaller canines always bark the loudest.

Look up the etymology of Sarcasm and Irony, both are greek words. They are not the same. But what cajn I expect of a people who do not use gender suffixes on their vocabulary. Poor vocabulary degrades a people's intellect. Any "literary theorist" (which is a fallacy to even say out loud) who do not speak greek, can make all the assumptions they want. The etymological definitioon is pretty solid. And you do not know the difference between the two. While you are at it, look up what Thesaurus means in greek. That'll get your gears going.

Sooner or later, we will have to go out and kill space aligators to make croc-skin shoes xD

Well, crafting "unique models" for weapns, yes, like a "golden pistol" from other games, a thing you'd hand as a gift more than an actual functional thing. A golden pistol might sound "cool", but in reality, it would only make recoil even worse xDD. But yeah, I think DU can take a page out of Warframe and ESO in this regard - people love high fashion. Everyone can craft a Light Armor, not many can craft a light armor that has a "leatherbound" texture on it. It's the exact same armor stats-wise, just with a cooler look. And I think that's where PVE should lay in DU. Gather Bones, make a bone ornate armor.

As we say in EVE "it's not paranoia if the Neutral IS an enemy scout". Beter safe than ragequitting after a gank, amirite? To be honest, I don't see DU working any differently. Freighters will have to pay for "seals of approval" from an alliance to conduct hauling in their territories and traverse their star-gates, those same freighters, - some of them- will be into smuggling people through stargate checkpoints, and in return, the NBSI will evolve int osomething new. Expect DU to be the first game with an illegal immigrant issue inside its world. Best social experiment ever - how to tackle illegal immigrants ina humane way. EVE helped researchers study the market and the nature of warfare, while DU will explore many more subjects. We will all have to be happy being lab-rats for those future researchers. Also, EVE had a war known as World War Bee, where the Goonswarm tried to impose a Viceroy system to neighbouring alliances and regions, to which the entire server piled up on them and pretty much destroyed them. See, that's exactly how WW2 went down. The Brits, the Russians and Americans were no bud bud before, or after, WW2. But for that brief period in human history, the were allies, fighting a common enemy. Same thing was World War Bee (see how meta even the name of the war itself is? Goonswarm have a bee as their logo). That's some top quality sociological scenarios right there. Being Neutral, like in the Cold War, means you are a third world country - the literal meaning, not being allied to a superpower puts you in a status of less access to trade and wealth. Only mercs are neutral, and even THEY have each other mercenary set to "ally" status. Honor amongst thieves.

One of EVE's many problems is the "kill 10000 Rats (NPC Pirates), get money and loot, rinse repeat".. If DU was to add PVE, I'd hope it's for cosmetic items. If Firefly taught me anything, it'd be the future is full of trenchcoats, leather jackets and silk scarves. Make PVE part of the crafting experience. And indeed, many of the so called "psycopaths" I have thought of in EVE before playing it, are the coolest dudes once you start talking with them. The issue people have - like IRL - is that it's easier to reach in premature opinions, like "guy killed me, guy is bad, game's bad", instead of thinking "hey, why did he kill me for? Oh, turns out I am in their faction's space, I was trespassing". Of course, unlike in EVE, DU has avatars first and ships are just vehicles, so we can HOPEFULLY have people who are willing to solve things by talking. I posted a topic on Knock-Out mechanics isntead of just killing people, as a means for people who do scouting and patrolling to be able to pin someone down for interrogation, so we can have both "shoot first, ask questions later" and have the NBSI protocols strong.You see a group of people trespassing, knock them out, ask them who they are and what they were doing here, if they are just peaceful people looking to mine, explain to them the lay of the land and the fact "you mine here, you pay subscription to he org running this place and yo uget lower tax on market units for your ore" as an example. See, this is what DU needs mostly to deviate from EVE. EVE has no tools for "mercy", it's either "let them go" or "blow them up", no in-between. Someone can say "you can ignore their pod, that's mercy" and to that I say "really? Blow up a 10 Billion ship and letting a 1 billion Pod go? "

You are not the kind of person to put hours into anything ,are you? You sound like a millenial expecting everything to be delviered to them. Freedom has to be fought for. If your side has no vigilance, that side is responsible for what happens to them. No pirate ever attacked a place they know they will be retaliated hard. "1 of ours? 10 of theirs" that's what keeps regions safe.

You don't know who Jack Harkness is, neither what Heart of Darkness is about. It was not sarcasm, it was irony. You don't know what those words mean either apparently.

True, EVE has some top quality sociopaths. So far, I've seen things in this community like : - Bribing with pledges. - Bribing with steam keys. - Bribing with promises. - Slander and attempts at "exposing" people. - Threats of "punishment" in media off of the forums. - Threats of doxxing. - Threats of violence. - Threats of griefing. - Insults. - Leaking of information. - Leaking of personal chats. - Leaking of voice recordings. - and up until the forum rework, people 1-starring other people they hated More or less, same as EVE. EVE's "problem" is its freedom. If people don't like freedom in games, they should go play something like WoW, being held by the hand like a 2 year old by the game.

Call me Jack Harkness and read me Heart of Darkness, like, do you have a third eye or something? How did you figure that out?! Was the fact I am part of the Band of Outlaws that gave it away?

Thing is, terms like "toxic" are subjective. One side's hero is the other side's villain. Point is, "civilisation" involves armies. "Terror" only comes when said "civilisations" do nothing to stop it. NBSI is the answer to that. Your people back at the center of your faction don't have to worry doing PVE or mining ,cause these people are safe cause of borders being KEPT safe. If people fail to understand "you can't enter here cause you are not part of our faction" these people need a good reminder by repeatedly being griefed on not trespassing. Also, the EVE Providence fella above failed to mention that Providence is NRDS cause NRDS means "we are only careing for people who are hostile to us", cause Providence is a neutral ground due to the topology - it's a space crossroads of star gates. Will those places exist in DU? Yes, they will exist - and like Providence, they will be a constant easy prey for pirates.

The misconception of "EVE Is a dystopia, where space pirates rob you off your stuff" is a myth. That only happens onj the borders, youi know... where skirmishes happen on a daily basis. Also, civilisation involves society and societies only persist if they devour other societies. And tha'ts no exception in EVE andx it won't be an exception in DU. I personally don't want EVE 2.0 as of its terrible mechanics, like Local Chat, PVE-grinding, terrible and cheap stealth mechanics, no room for thieves and heist gameplay (aside from ESS heists, which I won't even go into here). Sure, DU is Avatar first, ship is just a m oving cosntruct. You can LIVE in a ship, like being part of a freighter corporation and like working for someone else and being paid as a crew-hand. That's something you can't do in EVE. Point is, in EVE, interrupting enemy trade is essential in winning a war. That involves hiring mercenaries, who have to do shadey shit so you won't alert the enemy of your intentions. And that WILL happen in DU. People WILL grief people for no other reason that "hey, I got a cotnract to fulfill, nothing personal mate". So no, anyone who hopes "DU will not be like EVE", they are fooling themselves. NBSI in EVE exists for that reason. The "neutral" person showing up on local chat, that person might actually be a scout for a mercenary group. for all you know, that person is scouting for a bomber that will open up a mini wormhole and bridge an entire super-capital fleet. And in DU it won't be any different. In fact, it will be worst. If a person sneaks into your territory with a "neutrla" freighter's crew, and then they deploy a probe WITHIN your territory after bypassign your stargates, then you'll realise why NBSI is not enough. DU will reach new heights of palyer meta-game. That will involve border control checkingh your ship for any people on board. for all you know, a freighter could be carrying a death squad ready to cause havoc within your trading space station. Yes, turns out Black Ops IS a trerrifying thing to prospect over. What? You guys think you'll be left to run your trading joint unopposesed or sabotaged? You think REAL LIFE mob tactics won't be used? You think people won't send mercenaries to just cause trouble in your area to give you a bad name and thus cut down on your traffic? If you people were never taught of "Sranger Danger", you'll have a bad time running a group in DU.

Well, like it or not, the people who come from EVE will carry that level of culture into DU. It's efficient, it's proven to work and it's for the best. Your alliance or coalition is above anyone else. That's essentially no different than being fan of a sports team over another, or being an XBOX Peasant fighting with a PS4 peasant over who's less of a peasant. EVE's players didn't invent tribalist behavior. Neither did they invent xenophobia.

Yes, but the thing is DU operates more like Wormhole Space, and hopefully, there won't be a Local Chat. Most people in WHs will immediately attack you if they see a neutral. Why? Cause you don't know if the guy you just seen is alone or part of a fleet. For all you know, that tiney tiny astero might be there to tackle you (warp disrupt for non-EVE players). In fact, in WHs, if your miner spots a neutral, they will immediately call on the cloaked Legion / PRoteus to come wreck you fast. They do not do it for the "kill mail", for all they know, you could be there to pull a WingspanTT on their miners and disrupt their operations. There's a reason wormhole russians have a certain level of notoriety in EVE, it's cause of the fact they won't let you live for long if you try to gank their miners. Also, NBSI in EVE means no foreigners stealing your mineral wealth. NBSI in DU would mean "no foreigners stealing your mineral wealth that WON'T regenerate". And like in EVE, your "claim" over a planet is only effective if people patrol said region. You can say ":X planet is Y Alliance's planet", if you do not actively prevent people from mining on that planet, your "claim" is as strong as the UN's power. NBSI means you don't have to say sorry. Think of griefing neutrals similarly as border control. They have a means of not being griefed by NBSI protocols, and that is by joining the alliance / coalition itself, where they will pay taxes to the regional governing body. It's that simple. Providence is the way it is cause of "cultural" reasons. While that is admirable, it's not something that can be applied everywhere, especially not in 0.0 on the North or Wormhole Space.

I said it in the past, that indeed we need NO Killmails in DU. Killmails drive that mentality in eVE. However, the NBSI protocol; is there for a reason, if yo uare red, it means you are affiliated with an enemy. You can't expect them to give yo ua free passs. For all they know, you could be scouting for a fleet. They HAVE to take you out. YOu should not exprect any mercy in DU in that regard either. You have an entire server to "explore", if you want to "explore" in an enemy's territory, then yexpect them to kidnly remove you fro mthe premises by force.

"Superior" is the silyl word to use. It's not about superiority, it's about httting the enemy where it hurts. I pointed out to you, those kind of suits wouyld have to be expensive to balance their innate strengths and have SP loss associated with them to add to their high risk - along with their vulnerability to Energy Drain mechanics. The idea is to give people who lack numbers a way of fighting that it's viable for them, while also giving mercs and other entities the abilitiy to be covert on a strike. I mean, Mercs in EVE are paid to do all sorts of odd jobs by the richest people - who are not even in alliances. Give those people the ability to hire PMCs to wage war on people who pissed them off by blowing up their freighters and NQ gets ample amount of internet headlines. Of course, those armors should be NOT and I do mean NOT magical invisibility without any means of detecting the enemy whatsover. It should have a counter - mainly ifrared goggles / heat sights. It should be an optical means of stealth, not Harry Potter. The people using thme SHOULD deploy actual skills, like timing their movement or utilising tactical assault and advance i.e. "board a ship, take out the RN, then barricade the fuel storage area, while we set up explosives on the fuel tranks". And that of coruse, would demand things like "explosive devices have a mandatory 5 minute countdown", so for a dynamic style of "battleground" to be available and the defenders having enough time to fight back. And of course, if you got a battleship docked in space and the dock has no people acting as security - like how Titans have people protecting them - then the arguement : " how many people would use it" is irrelevant. This is about NQ providing tools that can make an organised force of smaller numbers able to overcome a superior force. That was present in EVE for years, with the Logistics ships (healers) being widely ignored, until Rooks & Kings went 20 vs 100 and won that the rest of the EVE server went like "hmmm, I guess we need healers on them fleets..." . Sadly, EVE is a 15 year old game and has some limited mechanics. In EVE's senario of "spec ops" situations, involves the Cynofields and surprise enemy fleets showing up at your front yard, blowing up a building and then leaving leisurely. And who deploys Covert Cyonosural fields? Exactly, Frigate Ships with cloaking abilities. In DU, that can be a dynamic thing, of people with infiltration suits scouting ahead of a main force and updating the leader of the Spec Ops platoon of enemy forces movement. It's all about that tactical gameplay. There is nothing tactical in EVE's clusterfucks of 1000 vs 1000 people fleets. You just are told "focus ABC" and that';s that. DU dargueably will be more of a clusterfuck in AvA, since most people will go Gung-Ho and then immedtiately start attackign different targets. Discipline is not something everyone shares. That's why we need such suits in DU. Alone they are not "OP", a Spec Ops armor - like a Tengu - would not last against a ship of a higher class, like a Spec Ops armor would not last against a Heavy ARmor or its "Tech-3" equivalent, a possible Power Armor. Your silly Spec Ops armor avatar would wipe the floor versus a person with such a powerful armor on if you were to go "hurr durr invasion". But those Spec Ops armor, if utilised in the opportune secenario, coould make a difference - like Cyno Fields in EVE.

Stealth is the art of avoiding detection. The Israeli Air Forcce flew under the Egyptian Radars' heights. The Japanese employed Radio Silence and cloudy weather to avoid beingh photographed by airplanes that flew over the PAcific. Sun Tzu was the onyl one who used the cover of darkness, cause he was fighting on land. Stealth has nothign to do with technolgoy, technology itself has nothing to do with anything. A stealth suit is just something meant to block enemy player and gear sensors ffrom identifying you. Whatr you use said suit is a whole debate on its own. Also ,since you seem to be an EVE player, the idea I proposed once was to have two types of armors for Avatars for stealth. one is an Infiltration Suit, similar to Interceptors from EVE Online and Recon Suits, similar to Strategic Cruisers from eVE. They both can bypass Warp Disruption bubbles in EVE Online, onl;y Ceptors have am ax DPS of 110 (really hard to get to that) if fit for speed - which means Ceptors can only do cobmat in the fashion of Wolf Packs, 30 of them jumping onto a target, and it usually doesn't end well for the cpetors, losing a large part of the fleet. While Strategic Crusiers could be Spec Ops Suits in DU, able to do the same,. have much more comhbat capabilitiy, but cost a metric shitton as of resources and money and they are easily handicapped when in contact with Energy depletion.. Both of those ship types in EVE can't caputure points, like TCUs. They need an Entosis Link, only present on BIG BIG ships. Ofc, the Strategic Cruisers are used depending on the occasion. Most of the time, they are used as part of a big fleet, that needs to be mobile and harrass the enemy force by jumping in, taking shots from far away and then vanishing, usually those pot shots finding the healers on the enemy fleet. Interceptors on the other hand, are used for scouting or for pickett dudty - standing guard near a position and reporting any enemy movement back, usualyl cloaked in Protoype Stea;th modules. For DU, since of the AvA combat, during a fleet engagement, a small team of "Spec Ops Armors" c an board an enemy ship, and try to overtake it before its shields are lowered or its RDMS is overtaken for Heavy Armors to board. In this case, the game has a dynamic "battleground" system. Two shisp that go VERY VERY SLOWLLY (like actual ships go slowlly, cause of their mass) means that enemy Spec Ops can do boarding actions in hopes of takign out the enemy's XYZ module to help win the fihgt. In another case, the Infiltration Suit, could be used by an Infiltrator to sneak into a forward base of an invading force and blow their supply of fuel up, thus rendering them weak for a surprise attack. And those suits balance out cause nobody likes to be in paper tank armors. Infiltration Suits are meant for just that, infiltration, noit combat. Getting in a fight with them - or dare I say gank someone - means probable death. And of course, do not forget how much those Strategic Cruisers and subsequently Spec Ops Suits in DU's format of AvC would cost, since they require a LOT of backgroudn training to get to them and most importantly, when you die within a Spec Ops suit, like with Strategic Cruisers, you lose Skillpoints fro mthose skiullls. Strategic Cruisers are a high-risk class of ships to fly. Dying with a Spec Ops suit, means you "delevel" on your skills behind the suit. They are no free meal. Those kind of Armors in DU would be something REALLY only capable for an alliance to keep funding on some people and those people if killed during an oepration, means they have to sit the bench for a while till they recuperate their lost SP. As I said in another thread "with great power, comes a great power bill". So, no, those armors won't be overused as "stealth". If anything it would make player-run police forces a thing.

Who said balanece artificially? Adding stealth suits or infiltration suits is a counter to tougher enemies you want to avoid. It's not a magical protection, it's an option. NQ can't balance the fact people CAN be bought. Also, you don't seem to remember Goonswarm defeated the Band of Brothers with guile, not brute force. Call Mittani any name you'd fancy, the guy got Goonswarm to a certai nheight cause of guile and fighting dirty. That's what stealth suits are for. If the enemy is not an organised force, they will be steamrolled and theri ships boarded and destroyed by numerically inferior force. That's a fdact of life, it has happend IRL, it will happen in DU, cause that's when warfare is interesting and tactical. Sun Tzu attacekd an opponent 10 times larger than him, attacked through the night and even used himself as diversion for his main force to attack the capital of hios enemy. Israel fought the Six Days War by exploiting their oppponents' lax attitude cause they were outnumbered tremendously, so "why have ships on the sea to chec k for the Israel air force?". Well, the Israeli air force obliteraed their enemies' air force and their ground forces had no aerial support. The Japanese destroyed the US Navy by attacking Pearl Harbor. Out of these 3 examples only one failed to win a war, and that's cause of advances in technolgoy nobody foresaw. The examples are many, having the ability to be covert makes the game more interesting. The only "counter" you can have against a bigger enemy, is the abilty to hit them where it hurts by being sneaky. Plus, that's the stuff that make itnernet headlines.

That's good and all, but like in EVE, people do not like a mind-numbing brute force battle. It's okay once a year or once a half year for it go down, but most of the times you just get bored having "glorious clusterfucks". Boarding parties can go down, that's why many EVE people are itnerested in DU. The possibility of boarding a superior ship and taking it out fro mthe inside - or taking it over if possible - is something that makes combat asymmetrical. Nobody likes symmetrical combat, and it should be emphasised, asymmetrical does mean unbalanced but not one-sided. Ship can one shot you if you get hit by its guns as Avatar and you can take over a ship if you board it and succeed boarding it, or sneaking up to it. If an enemy traitor flies a transport shuttle with a platoon from your alliance on board his side's most powerful ship, that means your platoon has a limited time-frame to do whatever they can and blow that ship up. That, could require infiltration suits that won't register any detection means on board enemy ships, but again, having limited access to gun sizes. That's asymmetrical warfare. One alliance's strength may be its money - but not its numbers - while another's strength is its numbers but they are dirt poor. And NQ has to cater on both sides to keep things interesting.

Same way fighting a tank in BF1 would go. Not every well. You can't expect to fight a space ship with a rifle. You should be asking for means to sneak up to a battleship and board it. That's the realm of boarding parties, so ask for stealth tools to make your sneaking easier. Just don't expect invisibility cloaks, that's too low-skill, it's insulting. There have been voices addvocating for both sides, NQ has cross-sections on ships and has a knack for complexity. Expect comlicated and skillful stealth mechanics, as well as explosive charges. Also, you confuse "hard lock" with "soft-lock". Weapons on ships do not lock a person or a ship ,they just cast "aoe" damage bubbles. That IS " lock-on but it's also something people cna avoid. A person must "lead" their shot to h it you inside the damage buble, think of it like in MOBA games, you have to cast the aAOE skill in front of a moving target to hit them. What DU does is consdiered a "soft lock". If NQ was to add a "red zone" for incoming attacks while a construct weapon is "casting" the damage, it would also be helpful, incliude some "dart" abiltiies, like dodge rolls or dashes, and you got some dynamic PvP, without having to rely on hurp-durp Simulation. No, ships won't be able to avoid them AOE damage bubbles - not always - cause of many reasons, one being you cast the damage bubble on terrain, and ships, technically in-engine, are considered terrain and for many reasons - I won't even try to explain here - ships work with statistics to determine avoidance or damage mitigation. Yes, your ship can go so fast, it has som much mass, bullet sbounce off of it, it's physics, it's terrifying and makes viewing Star Wars as interesting as watching Power Rangers. However, do not expect a 1500mm battleship railgun to hit you in its damage bubble and you waliking away scot-free. In fact, expect to be one-shotted. That's some Wrath of Gods type of weapon. On the bright side, you are so tiney tiny, you can't be locked on - cause of science reasons you don't really wanna know - so you don't have to worry that giant guns will magically lock you in space. Giant shells need long targeting solutions - it's how the word "problem" came to be, means "before the artillery shot" in Greek. So, if you wonder "will them giant 1500mm cannons dunk me?" the answer is "not possible at all" - unless you are standing still on top of a rock, they may not be able to lock onto you, but they CAN target the rock beneath you. Be smart, don't stand on rocks. As for base defeness, that's something - again - that has to battle a possible "sneaky" gameplay, like infiltration suits that ignore RDMS but limit oyu on weapon sizes, i.e. Infiltration Suit ignores RDMS like the ability to access guns inside a Territory Claim, but you can only hoslter on it small firearms, like pistols, you get the idea. So Territory Claim defeenes become viable, cause they are meant to catch sneaky people of guard. NQ has said "no auto-targeting guns on constructs", that's a solid stance on their part. And again, infiltration suits, they could do things like hide your name when people pass their reticle over you, and infiltrators - unlike in Planetside 2- could act as "Spec Ops, and rushing on enemy MBTs on the ground, placing some C4 and bailing out. Yes, you may say "that's op, omg", well, guess what, actual MBTs have ground support to prevent that, it's a team game, play it with a team. Teams work together. So, to sum it up, it's about "can we have means to sneak up to Cosntructs?" not as much as "can I pelase be able to survive a hit fro ma 1500mm railgun shot?". Cheers.

Look at Albion Online. Just came out ,healthy playerbase, same deal. Perpetuum had more issues than griefers, it was EVE's combat terrible replicated for a 3rd person mech combat game. It was doomed from the get-go. And EVE is not F2P, it's partial F2P. Just enough to see what's good in the game and then subscribe or buy PLEX to get the Omega status fo skil ltrain. The fact hey realised that people in Battleships can farm for PLEX much faster is a good sign for EVE. Thing is, CCP is goign to make the game eventually F2P, cause they develope a new title for a while now. There is no point having a subscription for EVE when they won't focus as much on its features after their new title comes out.

Yet, EVE is not a failed MMO or a trainwreck. SWTOR and SWG died, Star Trek went F2P and a heckton of other MMOs went the way of Matrix Online. EVE is still here.

EVE's terrible UI is the main thing driving people off, not the sandbox. IF the Sandbox didn't draw people's attention, news outlets would not cover EVE's wars like they are real wars.

While that's an acceptable excuse in the lore eat to get calories ("heat"), actual batteriers would be much more dandy and, possibly, future friendly for any plans NQ might have for cyborgifcation or augmentations.