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SubQuest

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  1. Like
    SubQuest reacted to Volkier in Superior alternative to finite durability mechanic.   
    So I'll start off with re-iterating what I've already mentioned in another thread - having "finite" Durability mechanic has been universally hated by gamers since the mid-90's, and is the worst possible step backwards for this game that I can imagine, that will:
    - Turn off a large chunk of playerbase
    - Make replacing destroyed elements hours long endavour due to "element already blocked by another element" error forcing you to strip half your ship before replacing the one thing in order
    - Create an insane gap between large orgs and small orgs / solo players
    - Make everything in the game less fun - from building, to general flying, to PvP
    - Is a survival mechanic that people have repeatedly stated they did not want over the entirety of the development of Dual Universe. Both in forums, discord, private groups etc.
     
    The only rational and viable reason I can see why durability would be introduced, is to provide a supply sink and increase demand for new elements, so as the economy does not collapse due to playerbase saturating itself with everything they need to build. (I do have to interject that there will always be players leaving the game, there will always be new players joining the game, there will always be existing players building and creating bigger and more things, the market is showing no signs of being unhealthy, there is absolutely no reason to.... ok /rant off, just had to get that off my chest)
     
    Now rather than whining about it without offering solutions, here is a win-win alternative that would not require any massive amount of rework or alterations to the current gameplay that should NOT ONLY  appease both the people who want durability (I'm assuming for the following reason) and those who would rather run a cheese grater over their knees every time they wake up than see it ruin the game we are all passionate about - but also make the game more fun as a standalone mechanic, allow for easy balancing at a later stage, AND open up an entire new playstyle and career prospect in DU. 

    So Anyway:

    Problem: Economy saturation requiring completed element sink
     
    Proposed solution: 
    - Keep scrap and element repair functioning exactly the same as it is.
    - Scrap will no longer be produced directly from raw ore. Scrap by ore will be replaced by scrap by tier (eg. iron scrap replaced with T1 scrap. Gold scrap replaced with T4 scra.)
    - Introduce a "reclaimer" industry element (or add a recycler mode - the first just seems easier). 
    - "Reclaimer" industry only has a "start" and "stop" switch. None of the whole industry of run maintain etc. That just seems to be more work and more difficult for the devs. Unless they want to use that system - in which case that would work just as well (we would just need more than one reclaimer for multiple elements)
    - "Reclaimer" industry will yeet any fully assembled element from the [linked input] container - such as engines, fuel tanks, windows etc. - and process them back into a fraction of raw materials and a bit of each type of scrap
    - The quantity and tier of scrap produced would depend on the quantity and tier of raw materials that were used to make the element in the first place. This means the game has already pre-balanced this system, as small components like lights that require T2 or T3 resources would yield less scrap but of higher tier, large components such as engines would yield a lot of scrap but at tier 1. Yeeting something like a warp drive on the other hand would give back a bunch of low - high tier components and low - high tier scrap. 
     
    This also opens up the possibility to add new skill trees, as well as balancing the whole system by simply changing how much of raw materials are returned, how much is turned into scrap, and how much 'disappears' due to efficiency loss. Further, allowing the placement of this industry on dynamic cores, would open up entire career as scavaging ships that are designed to nom on other ships that have been captured or found derelict in space - as well as the dynamic gameplay whereby running out of scrap in the middle of space would require the pilot to make decisions of what components (if any) they can afford to recycle on the spot.

    Overall you get:
    - Economy sink for completed elements (which basically solves the problem that 'durability' is supposed to fix)
    - Incentive for people to look for derelict ships - or create derelict ships from other people when it comes to PvP
    - More engaging gameplay when it comes to repairing in the middle of combat
    - Expands the salvaging profession into scavenging, as well as creating a salvaging sub-profession
    - Creates the possibility of another class of ships being built that follow large org' fleets to "clean up" after a fight
    - Creates options for new skill trees
    - Allows for easy re-balancing tweaks at a later stage without drastically changing the system
    - Is still new player and solo player friendly as there are always elements to recycle (considering you start off with a bunch of stuff)
    - Uses existing already implemented and tested mechanics of linking containers and industry.
    - Overall win-win for everyone as it expands gameplay and makes it more fun - UNLIKE durability which does the opposite for both accounts (yes I had to say it again).

    Alternatively, if someone else has any ideas, that would be good too. Basically at this point, anything would be better than proposed durability changes. I'll go as far as to say that completely removing player markets and player driven economy would be better than proposed durability changes. Ok maybe not, but you get the picture. 

    EDIT:
    Also alternatively - a simple RNG for a % for an element to get perma-destroyed when your core goes boom - would still be a superior mechanic that creates whatever element sink and necessity the current system does with practically none of the disadvantages listed above. Hell, if there's a minimum % of elements destroyed mechanic - even if it's as low as 1% - would encourage people to actually put decorative elements and whatnot on their ships. 
  2. Like
    SubQuest reacted to PeteComma in The problems with Planned updates and how they will kill PvP   
    To start id like to say i doubt that NQ is going to listen but the problems that will arise with planned updates can be completely avoided and I also apologize if i show some people think they didn't know.
    1. Durability will kill PvP.
    The point of PvP right now is to kill the other guy and take his ship. the battles my not always end in a win or loss but when somebody loses, the elements you recover are enough to cover fuel and ammo and maybe the voxel damage that happens to your ship. with elements being completely destroyed after a fight what do I get for killing my opponents ship? i'll tell you what you get, parts that can never be used again! for those who have ever fought in real PvP you know that parts a destroyed way more than 10-20 times.The already low reward of PvP will be reduced down to nothing.
     
    2. The "rebalancing" of PvP can be easily bypassed with little to no effort due to the docking mechanic.
    (This one is multi faceted so please read the whole thing before you rage reply, also if you haven't done any PvP this won't make sense to you but if you know you know) 
     
    Currently the list of PvP rebalancing  actions will be.
    Bound weapon sizes to core sizes
    energy consumption
    radar lock ranges unified
    Hit-Miss formula changed to account for cross section instead of core size. 
     
    To bypass all of these all i would need to do is follow these steps.
    1. Use a L core to build a ship with the same cross section of  a Small core and use all of my energy allotment for engines only
    2. Build M cores that are only Large weapons and dock them to the L core.
    3. Go shoot anything that moves because i have more guns.
     
    Ways to fix these problems.
    Stop docked ships from firing weapons
    Have better rewards for Killing enemy ships combat (quanta or skill points)
     
    constructive criticism is welcomed but disrespect will be ignored.
     
  3. Like
    SubQuest reacted to Volkier in The problems with Planned updates and how they will kill PvP   
    Durability will kill the game. People have said "we don't want survival mechanics" for the past 4 years. This goes against what NQ has promised the game to be. If they want to re-work how elements are fixed up, that would be a welcome change. Durability is just the worst possible way to do it.

    Simply adding a "deconstructor" that strips elements into their raw crafting components and a "repair hub" that repairs any element using the raw crafting components with the scrap limiting how much it can repair to 50% will solve all the "issues" that people claim to exist which require a durability mechanic. And it will encourage people to PvP since now you don't get some crappy ship that you will never use and will scrap for elements anyway out of it. 
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