[Still the same problem as pre-schematic era]

On 2/16/2021 at 10:53 AM, Warlander said:

Schematics were just a hurdle. The bigger and more well equipped the org the easier it was to jump over and take advantage of production, market potential, and saturation of the market as the rest of the game caught up. It was just a momentary fix and until they limit how much you can put into the market along with adding upkeep/maintenence via repairing damage sustained through mass production as in rl and parts/machines constantly going down, and also how fast you can grab ore and process it due to scanners being used constantly to find what is left of the ore in the solar system nothing will fix this broken system from top to bottom

The goal is not to keep people from making large factories by simply increasing the cost. Idk why this misconception is so common, NQ never said that.

Yes, orgs can still make mega-factories, it just takes them a bit longer. This is desirable gameplay.

The goal of schematics is not to stop orgs from building factories, it is to stop solo players from building them, or at least make it only economical to build a small number of production lines for a few items for sale. This addresses the problem vylqun brought up (about low demand generally for goods) by greatly reducing the supply of goods to market, forcing most players to use markets rather than small personal factories.

[Overall Synthetic Diagram of the Industry (OSDI)]

On 2/16/2021 at 10:34 PM, PauMS0418 said:

New lil upgrade to make the names more readable...
Lemme know what's wrong or if u like !

Since functional parts are not an input into exceptional parts, they should be on the same vertical level (although I understand why you drew it this way aesthetically). Also you misspelled functional "fonctional"

[Research Industry Units]

20 hours ago, JohnnyTazer said:

So many good points, which really makes you wonder about all those videos in alpha where they talked about a "player driven universe". I see absolutely NONE of that now, and no sign of it on the immediate horizon. But HEY!, we are getting org wallets with 2 rights.  And a mission system (sorry only hauling, rest will come later TBD, lulz).  

IDK (I don't know) why it's so hard for people to understand the game is in development.

[Overall Synthetic Diagram of the Industry (OSDI)]

text is way too small, cant read

[Still the same problem as pre-schematic era]

12 hours ago, blazemonger said:

 

Would you care to provide the number to back that up?

 

The economy not starting is not and never was about solo players and small groups not using the markets. It is and was about big orgs pretty much ignoring the in game economy in favor of their internal (and frankly mostly better set up and managed) internal one. Big orgs build their own stuff, mine their own resources pay their org members with their own currency and pretty much provide everything (new) members need out of their own stockpiles. What surplus they have they may bring to markets at whatever price they want.

 

The economy is also not starting because players have no stake in it and using thein game economy means venturing into a lagfest around the markets that potentially could be providing goods at reasonable prices or going the long way around to distant markets and paying a premium.

 

Most of what you need for everyday needs can be made using the nanocrafter with no need for schematics anyway.. something NQ will probably nerf next..

 

The only reason players generally use the in game economy is to sell to bots as it's the only way to get money for now.

 

3 hours ago, Lethys said:

Pffff, blaze still has 900 posts to catch me

 

Going to go after him now personally or care to react properly to his post?

1. The idea that players have "no stake" in the economy is ridiculous

2. There is not a huge sector of players unwilling to trade at markets due to lag which isn't prohibitive

3. The supermajority of players do not exclusively participate in intra-organizational economies if they even are members of such organizations

4. Intra-organizational economies are an exceptional feature of DU, not a bug

5. I dont need a "number to back that up" to explain obvious realities, but I'll hold blazemonger's hand. To make a large retro brake, the schematic tree costs 1.5-2 million quanta (ballpark estimate). The industry units cost approximately 200k quanta. A large retro brake at market costs approximately 50k on Alioth, 150k elsewhere. I don't know input costs (and they're highly variable), but lets assume 25k quanta for a 50% profit margin on Alioth. If you want 4 large retro brakes for your ship, it costs 1.8-2.3 million to produce them yourself versus 200k to purchase them on Alioth. According to these estimates you would have to sell 72-92 large retro brakes to recoup your fixed costs.

6. The big problems in the economy are low player population, low physical density of this player population, and youth of the game so not enough factories yet

7. The idea that anyone, including orgs, can sell at whatever price they want is ignorant. They can't sell if nobody buys, and if there is a huge profit margin, a solo player can cut the price and make his own profit in that margin.

8. I agree that the nanocrafter is over-powered

9. My 'personal critique' of blazemonger is 100% accurate

[Still the same problem as pre-schematic era]

14 minutes ago, Spaceboi said:

I buy almost everything off the market, I'm in a small org and we can't make most things. I'd imagine there are a lot of players like me, I see things on the market being sold constantly. 

yeah obviously. blazemonger is like the most active player on the forums, constantly butthurt, always raging at the developers.

[Still the same problem as pre-schematic era]

It isn't a problem that organizations can build effective factories. The game is designed to encourage player's organizing amongst themselves to do things which are otherwise impossible for a single player.

 

The problem addressed by schematics was this: Rather than buying and selling at markets, nearly every player makes a small factory to produce the basic supplies he needs, stifling economic activity. Schematics serve to raise the cost of production to incentivize specialization and market participation. This has been achieved, and the schematic system makes it cheaper to buy items at market unless you want to mass produce them. This in turn incentivizes players and organizations to produce more goods and sell them to players now turning to markets for supplies.

[Mission System Formal Ratings]

In order to build trust between actors, NQ intends to add a 5-star rating system, but a rating system like this can be abused as well. I can give a player a poor rating and impact their ability to play the game regardless of their performance with respect to the mission itself.

 

However, there are ways to formally rate a player's mission performance. NQ should have the ability to track when or whether certain mission-related events occur. (I am focusing on hauling missions here, but the principle of formal performance metrics is not limited to this scope)

A few possible metrics for mission performance:

1. Was the mission completed successfully?
2. How quickly was the mission completed? (Could be elapsed time or presented as a percentage of the total time allotted)
3. If the mission failed, why?
   1. Package was destroyed
   2. Package was opened by the player      <-- MOST IMPORTANT
   3. The mission timed out
   4. The destination container was destroyed

Any mission system should have some sort of indication of whether or not a mission failed because the hauler opened the package before delivery. The most important information to the player writing a hauling mission is whether or not the hauler will just steal the freight. Formal detail can be included in the rating system fairly easily, and it allows for a greater degree of trust between actors than would otherwise be possible, increasing the proportion of players who are willing to create missions and lowering the necessary collateral.

 

Addendum:

There are two major purposes to a rating system:

1. To establish trust / penalize/disqualify untrustworthy players (e.g. did the player steal the payload)
2. To distinguish performance between trustworthy players (e.g. how quickly a haul was delivered)

Ideally, the rating system would segregate these two objectives. There is a problem when a player is rated poorly because they took a long time to respond to messages or perhaps they were rude in communications, but when another mission writer sees this bad review, he wrongly presumes the hauler is not trustworthy.

[Walls Disappearing in Build mode]

Same here

[Difficulties with Mining]

In case you are not aware, the L key in game toggles a flashlight, and while the flashlight is on, there is a ruler that measures the angle of elevation from the horizontal. (You probably know this already, but if you didn't Xenus' answer wouldn't be much help if you don't know the angle)

[Falling under Map Bug]

This is a relatively common bug people run into. For things like this, you can go to the "help-troubleshooting" channel in the official discord ( https://discord.gg/dualuniverse ). A few of the NQ staff monitor that channel and will help you get back on your feet.  Alternatively, while we're in beta, there is a "Force Respawn" feature visible after pressing escape while in game. This will respawn your character at the preset resurrection node, but I don't think you get to keep your inventory so this is not preferred.

[Mining Ships and Asteroid ore.]

Mining lasers have nothing to do with the gameplay you described. Everything you mentioned can still happen with the current mining mechanics. I would like to see mining get upgrades too, but this should not be a priority for the developers.