[Void League]

You always gotta send it. No hesitation.

[Selling Constructs based on existing IPs]

15 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

Just because DAC have a real world value you can't make the argument that what you sell in game has. Putting a $$ tag on in game items is just  a thing that looks good on paper and in news articles.

Making a profit also isn't considered when looking at if something is fair use or not. Even if you are making money, plenty of people already do that with lots of copyrighted material. That's the world of parody

[Selling Constructs based on existing IPs]

Stuff like that should fall under parody and fair use. I'm not sure how the rules will work in the future for the EU, with the new controversial copyright law proposals, but as of right now all that kind of stuff is open to recreation in game due to Fair Use law.

Its still not best to recreate any copyrighted material in game until NQ gives the okay for it, but so long as NQ is okay with it, there should be no problems. My guess is that NQ is waiting for the EU copyright law situation to be resolved before telling people that they can create whatever. Currently the EU is preparing for a redraft of the proposal, so hopefully things go the way we want it to.

 

Here is a link to an article describing the specifics of the EU copyright law situation: https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/5/17535874/eu-copyright-law-article-11-13-rejected-first-vote 

[Hand Weapons]

5 minutes ago, CoreVamore said:

You just contradicted yourself.....

No I didn't, did I not just explain it for last time? Read the beginning please

19 minutes ago, Excavy said:

The kind of players that are going be going after noobs are noobs themselves, or slightly higher level players. I never said I was talking about the best player in the world. I meant a higher level player than a base noob. The "buffer" for noobs is the fact that they are noobs. Nobody cares to kill them except for people close to their level. The higher level players that attack them serve as learning lessons.

 

7 minutes ago, CoreVamore said:

As for nobody finding it potentially engaging to have this "mechanic" well so far there is only one person against it, thats a majority of one so far......

Sure dude. I'm completely alone in my opinion and nobody else would be in agreement with me. Its not like only 3 people have been talking, and one didn't even state his opinion, just pointed out something. Making passive aggressive statements doesn't help your argument either. This isn't a popularity contest. I'm just gonna stop talking to you now.  

[Hand Weapons]

2 hours ago, CoreVamore said:

The idea is to give newbies a **potential** extra psychological buffer to reduce them getting picked on in the early parts of the game when they venture out into PvP areas. (I.e. potential attackers will need to think twice, they will likely attack anyway, but some may not).

 

The idea also has nothing to do with newbies struggling, or otherwise, diverting the key point of my suggestion: which is simply to give newbies a slight breather in their first steps into PvP land.

If its not about noobs struggling, then why do you want to give them and advantage? If they really want to stop PvPing, then they can, ya know, leave the PvP zone? You should have to enter a PvP zone knowing that there is always a risk.

2 hours ago, CoreVamore said:

If supposed high level PvP'rs cant handle that then I would suggest that they aren't really high level PvP'rs 

The kind of players that are going be going after noobs are noobs themselves, or slightly higher level players. I never said I was talking about the best player in the world. I meant a higher level player than a base noob. The "buffer" for noobs is the fact that they are noobs. Nobody cares to kill them except for people close to their level. The higher level players that attack them serve as learning lessons. If nobody ever attacks them in PvP, they are not going to learn. And personally I'd be getting frustrated myself if everyone ran away from me when I tried to fight them because I was a noob.

 

The main point is, its fun for nobody and it doesn't help balance. It also has no player choice behind it, because the game is implementing this "strategy" whether you like it or not. I don't know a single person who would find that engaging.

[Greetings from a fellow Spacefarer]

Welcome DreamCatcher! This community i very welcoming, I'm sure you'll make lots of good friends.

[Hand Weapons]

Putting a set in place mechanic is not how you encourage counter-play and self-improvement. If noobs are struggling against higher level players, it is only the fault of themselves. They are the ones who need to get better themselves, not be given an advantage that is simply frustrating to play against.

Also there are non-PvP areas if they can't handle having to actually learn how to PvP well instead of relying on a cheap trick  

[Hand Weapons]

1 minute ago, CoreVamore said:

I have the sense you just dont like surprises in battle, I dont like them either, however, they are a facet of any confrontation, they are a facet of life as well. You can't control everything, all the time, chaos/randomness/uncertainty rules all worlds, order is an illusion we make for ourselves.

Surprises are fine, but what is the point of giving someone the brainless use to one. Waiting until you get close to pull out your weapon is a tactic. Let them think for themselves. Purposely putting frustrating mechanics into the game is not a good idea. Surprises take planning, accountability of your opponent. What you are suggesting takes no skill, no thinking, and has no disadvantage. 

[Hand Weapons]

Just now, CoreVamore said:

I could do the exact same thing my not equipping my gun till I am right on top of the enemy, so no amount of scouting will help you. And the Pain will Rain on your position before you realise you have been tricked. Yes Tricked, it happens all the time in warfare. Is it fair? Nopes! Is it strategy? YES!

 

That requires some modicum of thinking. You are suggesting giving people an advantage for free, with no mental effort. That is not strategy. There was no creative thinking on the player's part. 

3 minutes ago, CoreVamore said:

You cant fight any battle knowing 100% exactly what your opponent is bringing to the fight, there is always an element of the unknown. If you believe otherwise then its obvious you haven't played games like Eve Online, something that NQ has said countless times that DU will, in part, be modeled on. Uncertainty in combat is one of those aspects.

Uncertainty is one thing. Having the game visually trick you is another. Not only do you not know what their weapon is, it appears as something it is not. And its not as if your opponent is at all uncertain at all. They know they have the advantage no matter what.

[Hand Weapons]

Making noobs "safer" does not make the game fun and does not make for a balanced game. 

 

PvP zones should be risky, no matter your skill level

[Hand Weapons]

1 minute ago, CoreVamore said:

 

Changing cosmetics does nothing to the power of the gun, only to someone who has a close look at the gun and assumes its gun XYZ. That affects strategy only, not the power/capabilities of the gun. You need to re-read what I said and stop arguing about something that you just basically agreed with me on - it effects strategy and that ADDS a level of combat

 

 

Weapons stats and players skills are exactly that. Weapons stats are attributed to the weapon, player skills to the player, and combined they give the theoretical combat effectiveness of that combination.

 

Now, the looks of a weapon have zero bearing on the above, ZERO. As you stated above it only effects Strategy, adding a layer.... "is that 5 member team sneaking up on your flank really a bunch of noobs or some crack troops?"  They COULD be a bunch of noobs, but you might react as if you are about to be entering a world of hurt and bolt out of there. You may think they are noobs and then enter a world of hurt as your world explodes around you.

 

Thats MORE gameplay, More options. More potential pain and tears. And yet.....

 

Has the ability to make noobs a lil safer, until they upgrade their gun and show the world that they are basically a noob

 

 

I don't understand how you can argue that it adds more strategy. In order to even begin to strategize around your opponent, you have to scout their gear. If you have no idea whether a part of their gear is one thing or the other due to them both looking the exact same, it cuts off even a chance of strategizing against it.

 

Now I understand this is only one gun, but it is very dangerous to set that precedent. It is not fun to strategize around your opponent, only to lose because of an impossibly easy to pull of trick. There is no strategy put in on the other person's end, and all the strategy of the other person is for naught. There is no counter-play to what you are suggesting other than to take a blind guess or not take the fight completely. Either way, this is not beneficial for neither higher level players nor lower level players. It is frustrating to higher level players and doesn't allow for any real learning on the part of a lower level player since he is either going up against players that are blindly guessing against them or he is just not fighting anyone since they are all scared.

[Hand Weapons]

8 minutes ago, CoreVamore said:

You have never been chopped by a sleeper car in a drag have you?

 

Thats the point.

 

I dont believe in creating game mechanics to give noobs a combat advantage, cosmetics however are a different thing.

 

I dont see how it would drag down high level PvP play, how would it? Do you think cosmetics determines how far, powerful, often, a powerful gun can fire? If so I have a red stripe I can sell you to put on your car. 

 

The cosmetic effects the strategical part of the PvP. If you seriously want to argue that changing the cosmetic does nothing, then you're just invalidating your original point.

 

Making two guns look the exact same lowers the skill ceiling of PvP, since it eliminates the choice to play around their weapon's stats and abilities. That's like putting a rifle in the game with a shotgun weapon model. It takes the strategy of playing around a person's weapon out of the game.

[Hand Weapons]

1 minute ago, CoreVamore said:

You are totally missing the point.

 

If the most powerful gun looks the same as the weakest gun then an opponent will think twice, and that second thought might stop them attacking. Thus adding a potential level of protection for noobies.

 

It's also not a form of trickery, this type of thing is done in warfare, and hunting,  all the time.

 

It's that "Surprise MothaFecker!" moment.

 

And that may keep noobies a bit safer.

 

 

The second thought to keep them from attacking should be the fact that they have a good gun, not that they are completely clueless as to how powerful the gun is.

 

I don't get why that concept is necessary to protect noobs. When you first start, of course you are gonna be weaker, you have to work your way up by beating tougher opponents. Instead of making a cheap trick that drags down PvP for higher level players for the sake of lower level players, why don't you give the noobs a way to actually outplay an opponent and learn? 

[Hand Weapons]

4 hours ago, CoreVamore said:

The top level weapon would naturally blow away anyone in a suit, it would just look like the basic stun gun.

It seems a bit backwards to have a gun that does nothing to you in PvP and a gun that can blow you away look exactly the same. I like the idea of giving a progression system to your starting gun, as it will easily allow new players to be able to defend themselves. I just don't think it needs to be some form of trickery. If the gun is enough to push away aggressors, wouldn't it be better for the player to have it look dangerous, so that they don't get attacked in the first place?

[Can we get space weed?]

In the end we'll have wait to see. Nobody can really say what will happen until the actual game launch

[Can we get space weed?]

The easiest thing is to shoot and kill of course. But what if you kill somebody from another organization and they get pissed? Things get more complicated as DU grows.

[Can we get space weed?]

Just now, CoreVamore said:

Idk why people are thinking civilisation will be like our current one. Really cant see there lots of people wanting to be cops/security so i see it being similar to the american wild west.

 

Most places wont have dense enough populations, so the rule of survival will be to carry weapons.

 

Wont matter in safe zones anyway....

 

The easiest punishment will just be to shoot n kill the person doing bad things. That gets them out of the area and gives them a financial fine as they will lose what they are carrying.

 

As I said.... the wild wild west 

 

People most likely will take up more of a security role, where they work for their organization part time to earn money and recognition. Some areas will be more like the wild west with it being every man for himself. Some areas will be heavily regulated and managed by organizations seeking to retain their hold on their territory. It just depends

[Can we get space weed?]

8 minutes ago, CoreVamore said:

If there are pick pockets around then i am keeping my gun(s)  - no matter what the law says

Well yeah that's your choice. You may not trust the police to protect you. Its a risk analysis. Is it more risky to get rid of your guns and hope you don't pick-pocketed  or to keep your guns and hope they don't search you. And of course different areas will have different rules

[Can we get space weed?]

5 minutes ago, CoreVamore said:

How do you restrict weapons on a ship?t those weapons are needed to get whatever cargo safely to the destination. You cant then strip the ship of its weapons. Not only is it unrealistic it will drastically reduce trade.

I was talking specifically on personal weapons. For ships, there will be stuff such as anti-spacecraft guns to dissuade ships from acting out. While in a city area it is much easier to hide the use of a personal weapon.

[Can we get space weed?]

3 minutes ago, Lethys said:

Yes, i fully agree that ppl should find ways for themselves and that you can tackle proplems in different ways - that's emergent gameplay. 

I'm just against easy mechanics like pressing a button to see the inventory of another dude (and No, an animation or cast time doesn't improve that). Such mechanics should be demanding, engaging, hard to master and fun. Especially in nowadays gaming environment of instant gratification. 

I do I agree that those mechanics should be hard to use and powerful when mastered. What I am proposing for the balance for a mechanic like that, is for it to be very very close range, and have an animation BEFORE it takes effect. The animation and cast time does have an effect, because you could very easily run out of the way of the attack if you react fast enough. Also, I do not think the ability to do this should be common. I think it should either be a hard to master technique or have the action bound to an item of high value that you use. Things like that do have to be balanced to be fun, but I think its better to try and to find out its impossible to balance, rather than restricting options due to the difficulty of balancing around them.

[Can we get space weed?]

1 minute ago, Lethys said:

In PvP there's np with incapping someone because he chose to participate thus knowing that can happen. But as a Police/controlling mechanic ppl can just grief everyone and newbros will just leave the game again after such experience.

I assumed we were both talking about PvP zones. Even if you are in a city, the risk of being in a PvP zone should always be accounted for. If you are a person who doesn't want to be robbed or kidnapped or have police take you into custody, then it doesn't sound like a PvP zone is right for you. There is always supposed to be a sense of risk in everything that you do.

I'm not saying somebody should be able to incapacitate you long range snipe mode. Things like that have to be balanced, and the idea on an incapacitate should be very hard to pull off. You should have to sneak up on them, if you're in a city make sure nobody else sees you, get close enough to be able to perform the action, have an escape route. Its not like the other player has no risk and can just troll you.

 

9 minutes ago, Lethys said:

Same goes for Du imho. Orgs/empires/cities might just ban certain ship types (large ships from 50m Up), weapon elements (medium and large 6 barrel turbolasers) and handguns (autoloaders and shotguns). How to enforce that? Have ppl work for you who scout and spot such things. It works in eve, so it'll work in Du too. No need for inventory access - that would only destroy the immersion or the "sense of danger". Dies He have such a gun in him? Is He known for doing that? Let's follow him around and see what He does. Let's father intel in that guy, ask our spies about him and decide what to do. That's enganging gameplay and not simply "oh, you're new. Let me see your inventory because I work for the police. Hmmm, banned guns. Off you Go, you can't enter". That would be boring

I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, I think DU sets out to be more allowing in the ways you handle things in game. Organizations that have their police randomly search people will have bad reputations. An organization should go through the extra steps to scout people and make informed arrests, because it will make them reputable. The idea of DU to me is to have social relations impact the game-play more than any other game. You seem to assume that if you allow people to do something, that they will automatically do it. I think DU is set up to be much more complex than that, and make your decisions yours and purposeful instead of restrictive to one way to go about something. Players should have the opportunity to approach a situation in as many ways as possible. When they are given choices, they will be able to learn what way they want to tackle problems. This is what creates diversity in a game. I don't want to walk into a city and have the Police might as well be NPCs because they all go about themselves in the same way as anywhere else.

In the end, if I'm stupid enough to go into an authoritative state, I damn better be captured, bound, stripped, and tortured. I don't care about trolling, because if I'm stupid enough to be trolled, then I deserve it. What's fun about games like this for me is learning how to improve, not being coddled because it would be "not fun". That's what the safe areas are for, for people who legitimately don't have fun in PvP areas. I don't see it as beneficial to restrict your options in PvP simply to draw more people into PvP. 

[Can we get space weed?]

5 minutes ago, Lethys said:

Hello trolls, scammers, thieves and awoxers - it's completely legal and EASY to take everything from random players.

 

Bad idea. Even if you could only take weapons

I don't mean in an easy way, I mean something along the lines on incapacitating or binding them. It shouldn't be left to a button press, but to an item with a cast time and animation.  

 

Also I think most organizations wouldn't have stealing be legal.

[Can we get space weed?]

3 minutes ago, Warden said:

Being able to ban / outlaw weapon systems (or insert space weed here) and manually enforcing that only becomes viable if players have the possibility of stopping or checking the inventory of other players, or potentially even access it under specific circumstances (on their territory, etc).

That is true. Perhaps only restricting the trade and storage of certain items will be able to be enforced realistically.

This of course is all speculation. Maybe in there will be some way to take a person's inventory without killing them, allowing for personal searches.

[Can we get space weed?]

2 minutes ago, NanoDot said:

PVP is active in 95% of DU's game world. The official safezones only encompass a relatively tiny area. 

Yes, that is my point. Although organizations will try to claim safezones first, they will run out of space, necessitating rules surrounding PvP. The most secure way of preventing PvP inside a PvP zone is to restrict weapons. This will spawn black markets and cartels who deal in those weapons.

[Can we get space weed?]

15 hours ago, NanoDot said:

The only "smuggling of illegal goods" I've ever seen in MMO's has been smuggling banned items past the NPC police.

 

The "drugs" in MMO's are usually desired and used by all players, because the downsides associated with them are mostly trivial by design, but the buffs are significant.

 

In DU there are no NPC's, so "smuggling" will be no different to any other retail supply activity...

I really hope that they balance certain items to have significant downsides as well as buffs to account for the lack of NPCs. Besides drugs, I think weapon smuggling will still be very profitable. Once organizations get bigger and bigger, they will inevitably expand into areas where PvP is active. I don't know if every city would feel comfortable allowing all their citizens to possibly have a weapon capable of mowing down people in the street. Even if it is a PvP active area, the organization will want their cities to have some sense of safety associated with them.