[[Discuss] We've Heard You!]

12 minutes ago, Umibozu said:

Industrialists like myself calculate our product prices, but taking into account ore prices, we do the math real time when the basic ore prices fluctuate, either by using excel sheets, or doing math on paper( oldskool way), so we never sell below production cost , your argument here is not valid.

 

When part destruction be limited to pvp, and RDM blunders fixed, community will get back to ship designing and building, so parts are going to be needed anyway.

 

We do require  on case by case basis, reseting talent points, as some ppl spend their point differently due to massive impact of Death patch 0.23. Now when changes are being readjusted  , those might want to get back to crafting, so that Talent reset request  should be an option from this point onwards

Hi, you honor your profession as an industrialist to sell it for a fair price, making it profitable and not undermine others.
I am not only one who observed that lastly the market prices on Alioth are not reflecting the real production costs for some items. That's a fact.

 

That may be because some corp or long time playing individuals have access to huge amount resources without having to pay the high price (24-25 quantas per unit).

Thing is, to be able to sell a batch in a decent amount of time, I may need also to lower the prices very low. As I still mine mostly what is required for the production, I don't make a pure loss. Still this is not a viable way to do long term business. Market resource pricing should reflect ore offer/demand at some point.

 

Ship building will require parts ok... but once you own ships of each and every size/purpose, what else would do you buy? You have limited number of cores anyway. So the demand would be up to new players/accounts joining or those who ventures in the non-safe PvP area?
Ship parts have to eventually die, or/and to get a penalty/malus by loosing performances/features. So you may want to replace them by brand new ones. I crashed ships, know the pain, took days and lot of money to repair  when all was destroyed. Still that makes this game realistic, not forcefully fun (somehow depressing to be honest) but with experience and stories to tell. No pain, no gain. ?

 

[[Discuss] We've Heard You!]

2 hours ago, Emma Roid said:

The 'fixes' now proposed make matter worse instead of better in my opinion:
 - Setting up a Tier one factory is already possible (I managed), so that did not need fixing: it will only increase oversupply on an already slow-moving market.
 - By removing the breaking of items there will be an even lower turnover on the market. That has been the biggest market problem from the start: if you can endlessly reuse and repair items, only new players occasionally buy something. You need a healthy amount of destruction to get a healthy throughput on the markets. PVP alone will not do that.

Why is the destruction removed again? 0.23 stimulate people to start with smaller ships and more T1 elements, and build up over time from that. So the destruction fits: those ships are not that hard to replace or repair. 
People should not fly large core 20-engine monsters until they know what they are doing.

So for me this change removes the good bits of 0.23, and makes the bad bits of 0.23 worse. I think the result will be even less healthy markets.

Hi,

I completely agree with that.

The prices on the T1 schematics have been fair for most items (probably not for furniture). At least it gives a real challenge and goals, and you can start and progress from scratch and slowly evolve to get bigger and bigger. Making it easier now  would just undermine the 0.23 update very purpose imho.

I produce modestly ship parts and sell them to the market. The item destructions allowed at least a good turn-over and good demand on those ship parts. Removing it (but for PvP) would kill some businesses, and that new born economy.
Beside that, the 24-25 quantas bots buying ore (temporary), just kill the market. Basically it is much more profitable if I would sell my non-refined ore to the bots instead of spending the time and efforts to invest in schematics, industry building and hours manufacturing, or even trading.
I think the more you try to control the player-driver economy, the more you may ruin it.

 

I don't mind adapting to new rules. I appreciate the efforts, the intents NQ's team brings and what they achieved so far. However nothing would revert and heal what the 0.23 patch did, but time. It is better to move on, and to continue on a mostly straight line instead of reverting, and possibly hurting back those who tried to adapt.

Thank you for reading.
Keep on the great work!

 

edit: to be fair, new T1 schematics prices (those from today's patch) look good. It has not been really undercut badly, while the reimbursement seemed to work. Good job!