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Essentially I'm asking if multi-crew ships need dedicated gunners or can the captain, pilot, engineer, etc also control one weapon each?

 

Edit: For small-medium sized ships. Obviously cruiser class & up would need dedicated gunners.

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Actually i have one more question, then I'll get off this particular soap box. Does anyone know if non-gunner positions still get to control a gun or is it really just one function per player on anything bigger than a single seater?

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I think I'm starting to repeat myself and there's enough food for thought here so I'm moving on. I hope things turn out well for those who still think 1 gun per player is a good idea.

Cheers.

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In DU i think only the captain and pilot will be consistantly active. Maybe the engineer too if there's a kind of "mini game" where you have to constantly mange power levels & distribution, shield strength & harmonics, etc. Gunners will only be active during an engagement, and even then a gunner might not get to do anything if the enemy ship doesn't pass within that gunner's field of fire. As i said before I'll fill any role in a pinch even if i dont like it, but not everyone is like that. How hard is it going to be to find trustworthy gunners to man all those guns if all they do is stare at a screen and maybe occasionally push a button?

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If you're on a large ship manning your 1 gun and simply waiting for your turn to fire, how is that multitasking. Or fun.

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Do you think B36 crews tried to stop development of the B52 because it had fewer people aboard? Something like "You can't fly no bomber with less than 13 people! That's crazy talk. And just plain wrong. WRONG I TELL YA!"

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The B52 is a large aircraft, but it only has a crew of 5 (pilot, co-pilot, weapons systems officer, electronic warfare officer, and navigator). Those are all the same functions a fighter pilot fulfills so with the right electronics setup a single person could technically fly a B52 with full functionality. Could they do it better than a full crew? Probably not. Could they also perform all the in flight maintenance, repairs, reloading, etc.? No, so probably not a good idea. That's why i suggested the npc or offline-friends-as-npc idea (capped at 5 per player). They could continue the fight while you effect repairs or whatever (or vice versa). The B36 would've been a better example with a crew of 13. Then you'd have to join up with at least 2 more players and their crews.

So your logic is "We want multi-crew ships so we're going to limit players to walking OR chewing gum. Not both at the same time!"

I know about the memory wipe. I'm wondering if there was any additional brain damage that would affect people's ability to multitask.

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Switching systems also brings up questions like:

How many elements can you tie in to a console?

Can you network your consoles?

Different types of elements on the same console?

I think I've seen something like this elsewhere in the forum or dev diary or something but not sure what they said about it. I'll look around for it.

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I'd be fine with just being able to switch between systems, but the way i understand things as they stand we won't even be able to do that.

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Yay! Finally some people that get it. I dont care if it's npc bots, costructed ai droids, or grouped systems, i just dont want to be some kind of simpleton who can only do one thing at a time. RL single-seat fighter pilots must be able to operate multiple weapons systems, sensors, counter measures, nav tools, comms, and a dozen other things all on their own. Why would we lose the ability to multitask thousands of years in the future? Serious question: Did the Arkship crash give us all brain damage beyond the memory wipe? If they put something like that in the lore I'll shut up and move on. I won't like it, but I'll accept it since then the one player per element rule would make some kind of sense.

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If a fully bot-ed battleship is a problem (which i understand and even agree with), then cap the crew management at 5 crewmen. This way a player can effectively fly a frigate sized ship on their own if they want to, or join other players on a large ship without their crew, or as officer/nco/department head and manage their own section of npc crewmen as well as their own console.

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You can write your answers in one post, no need to split them (multiquote - desktop version, hard to do on phone though)

Well you need to defend that gate.

And you need to defend that base with the shield.

What could possibly go wrong when a 30 man org with a perfectly hidden homebase very far off (no need for stargates to get to other planets outside the alioth system) comes in and can wreck havoc to even smaller orgs. They could just kill every bubble they see with minimal effort, every gate too. Now imagine what'll happen when a 1000 man org does this.

With crews you make sure that no one can just go on a rampage because they feel like it. They need to do their logistics, tactics and organizational things first. THEN they can go kill. Which is way harder than just 20 people soloing a cruiser (I'm not even talking about bigger ships here....)

Unfortunately this will happen regardless of what kind of crew you have. Bigger/stronger/meaner orgs will beat up on smaller/weaker/nicer orgs, and Reavers frag everybody and everything in sight. A large Reaver org is almost a contradiction in terms but they do pop up from time to time and wreck havoc across the gamescapes until they burn themselves out and degenerate into squabbling rival groups.

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The mechanics are fine, their implementetion is terrible in EVE.

 

 

 

Yeah,  you know, you can't be everything at once, not from day one. In DU you can be a entry level anything, but yo uhave to specialsie like you would in EVE. You don't start with matery on missiles and drones and lasers and railgusn and projectile weaponry. You TRAIN for those - DU has the same training system as EVE.

I realize that. Hence the "outpacing" question.

 

Your arguements make no sense, you just said you like all those roles, but your choice of words and arguements indicates you are the "quarterback jock" kind of player mentality, case in point "DPS is for men, Healers are for [insert homophobic slurr here] ".

I did not say i like all those roles, i simply listed them in order of preference. I actually hate 4-6 but I'll play them if i have to because no one else in my group wants to.

 

And nobody can see anything other than that if you claim "everyone wants to be the pilot". Do not put anyone in the same category as you. That's a blanket statement and more importantly, paints you as an egocentric person - you know, the kind o f person that won't ever play support class in a game ,cause "I don't want to play as a healbot".

I said most people, not everyone. But I'll amend even that and say "alot of people"

Healer is #2 on my list because i like that role. It's almost always a very active/challenging role.

 

Do you know what's a dime a dozen in WoW?? DPS classes. They still struggle to find a good guild. In DU, those are people who will play "Pilot or Nothing". Oh, you wanna be a pilot only? Here, be a cannon fodder flying out of a carrier with your starfighter, and only if you are a good boy and not a person that wastes an organisation's resources by going hurr durr and not following orders.

I know, right? But that's one of the reasons i like to be a well rounded player, or in games like WoW i have alts for each class.

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There's always the /wrist option, but I'll try to come up with a better workaround than that when I'm not so sleepy.

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Ah! Unless you're referring to the offline friend as npc suggestion. In which case i can understand some trepidation about logging out in one place and logging back in to find yourself halfway across the galaxy.

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I could be wrong on this one, but i thought stargates were for travel between star systems and ftl was for travel between planets. Either way I don't really see the connection re: pc vs npc/mixed crew, Lethys. Explain please?

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So no, you won't fly a solo Myrmidon. That's a capital ship. Fly a catalyst with a few friends. In fact, in EVE's lore, a ship has actual crew. In DU that crew are real people. No you won't build battleships by farming. There's no automated industry either. Or mining. Capital ships come with high logistics. Fly what you can afford to crew - or manufacture.

Not even sure where any of this came from. I never said anything about wanting to fly a Myrmi solo in DU, or building, farming, mining, automated industry, agriculture,  waste management, the kitchen sink or any other off topic item you care to name.

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Deal with it, the devs don't want EVE's shitty solo ships. You are meant to specialise your toons. Starfighters are meant for solo players, anything bigger than a small ship like a frigate is group pvp.

Are they shitty because they're only crewed by one player or do you just not like the designs, mechanics, aesthetics?

No one is "meant" to do anything in DU. Sandbox, remember? A player can cross train all they like. Will other players outpace the Jacks of all trades in role specific skills? Almost certainly, but we're ok with that. Why aren't you?

Even a frig in DU would require a small crew. If properly outfitted of course.

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you clearly never played tackle, logi , or any support role in EVE.

yes i have played those roles in their role specific ships and in support drone boats. I like to be able to fill any role in a pinch, but my preferences for mmos in general are as follows:

1 Ranged Dps - especially with force multipliers like pets, drones, golems, etc

2 Healer

3 Melee Dps

4 Tank

5 Other Support (Bard/Shaman)

6 Rogue

I'm curious about what prompted that comment though.

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There are alot of complaints and concerns over the "one crewman, one weapon" system, and not just from solo players. I'm not a solo player, although i do like some "me" time now and then, but i feel it's a valid play style and thought I'd offer up some suggestions to make the game more enjoyable for more players. I don't understand why other players using npc crew detracts from what you do with your live crew. Most of the time you wouldn't even know if the other ship had npc or live crew. Some posts say that it would be harder to get crew. As i said before you're likely to have higher skills in certain areas than other players (and vice versa) so you shouldnt have trouble finding a berth on another ship, but if your worried about finding enough crew for YOUR ship because you know most people want to be in the drivers seat rather than staring at their targeting reticle for X amount of time (hours?) until an enemy finally shows up on their screen for a second or two, then we really have the same concern and you should be on my side

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Actually i like pets so i usually fly a droneboat like the Myrmi or Tristan and i have a lot of fun with the little Tristan but i can control more than 1 weapon or system mods + drones

And i know an individual or small group can't do as much as a large org. I never expected to be able to build a Titan and take on a mega corp in EVE with my small corp but i probably would've gotten bored flying frigs the whole time.

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I'm also a little disturbed by a familiar theme popping up all over the forum. I'll paraphrase:

 

 

YOU MUST JOIN THE COLLECTIVE

 

INDIVIDUALITY IS IRRELEVANT

 

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE

 

 

I thought in a sandbox a player could be and do and play any way they want.

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Not knowing who may be bad and who may be an awoxer is part of the fun playing in an open world sandbox mmo. Figuring out real friends who really help you, is part of the game.

I agree. I'm just wanting to minimize my risk while I'm figuring out who to trust. Particularly early on.

 

I could easily change your argument by saying: in eve you didn't trust anybody too, did you? Nonetheless you found enough people to trust with whom you flew and lived. Same thing in DU: you will find them

People are lazy. And most people will always take the easy route (as we saw in eve). So yes, crews will definitely decline of if you allow npc/automation.

Yes i trusted people to varying degrees but in EVE they have to attack you from the outside, which at least gives you a chance to fight back or evade (usually) . In DU a Reaver disguised as a helpful able spacer with some time on his hands can just walk up behind you and shoot you in the head to take your ship, or blow it up from the inside.

Again, i just want to minimize the risk. I really hate seeing weeks/months/years of time and effort go down the drain just because i trusted the wrong person.

People who WANT to crew other players constructs could and would still do so. This would simply allow everyone, even small groups and (Perfection Postponed! ) solo players, to field decent ships/bases.

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Three. Lore wise AI is banned and NQ are trying to avoid it.

I didnt mean droids as in mechanical constructs with AI, i just meant NPC humans. Lore is preserved.

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Also, i should've said this earlier, the main goal of this mechanic would be to fill in crew gaps when we don't have enough players to fully crew a construct. Full NPC crews would be possible but if your friends have higher skills than you in certain areas (likely since players will tend to specialize) then it would be foolish not to use your friends IF they're available.