Being online for lua scripts to run. The alternative.

[Wicpar]

Hello,

 

As you may know, it has been "decided" that scripts are only gonna run in the presence of people, and not otherwise.

Trying to comprehend that choice was easy: it is a question of performance, because every loaded area uses quite a lot of server power.

 

But i have an alternative:

you may have a personal anchor that simulates your presence to be able to run your mining operations, this would allow too to avoid doing afk shenanigans.

 

but, what if you want more?

 

you could use DACs to enable a use of one more of them for one month, thus keeping the performance use compensated for.

 

I hope i am not besides the point...

[Lethys]

Pay to win

 

I think it's fine that they restrict those scripts to players being online or people whom you gave the right to execute that script.

 

This suggestion would only lead to afk-kind-of-miners (which I would hunt and kill on every occasion) with no real advantage (except, you know, p2w)

[Anaximander]

I think the problem is lying in Space Engineer's scripting being run server-side.

If you were to be offline and having scripts be run by the server, that would cause massive lag.

DACs enabling offline Lua functioning = borderline Pay-2-Win, almost reaching botting levels of cheating.

You can assign delegates to run the Lua script while you're offline. As an example, that may be a First Mate for a ship.

[Hotwingz]

From what we know so far there wont be any elements for mining. So to mine you need to actively dig.

 

And in the new interviews JC explained he does not want the game to evolve in a series of automations. Player interaction is very important to him.

 

In that context I can understand why you need to be physically present for your scripts to run. Player interaction goes out the window if 1 person can automate an entire production line 24/7 without any physical presence.

 

[Anaximander]

From what we know so far there wont be any elements for mining. So to mine you need to actively dig.

 

And in the new interviews JC explained he does not want the game to evolve in a series of automations. Player interaction is very important to him.

 

In that context I can understand why you need to be physically present for your scripts to run. Player interaction goes out the window if 1 person can automate an entire production line 24/7 without any physical presence.

 

Well, actively digging may also involve a laser jack-hammer... so yay!

[Hotwingz]

Well, actively digging may also involve a laser jack-hammer... so yay!

Totally!

[Wicpar]

i see. but i fail to see the difference between having 20 people and 20 DACs. yes there is the social POV, but well, you can still pay people to come if you really want... my point was to be able to keep scripts running at a high cost, for instance on a massive mining operation.

 

this could be balanced anyways as a game mechanic, so i fail to see how it's on the cheating level.

 

for the part of scripts lagging out the server... no. tiny icky bitty scripts are like a fruit fly compared to the physics the servers would have to compute, and even then the computation could be deferred to other's PCs.

Since you could use your off-time to act as one of those online keepers, there is no too big advantage unless you have really big operations, like really big ones, and at that point you could as well have a corp, why not allow people to do a fully 1 vs all play?

and the DACs bought for those would be bought with in game money thus inflating the DAC price thus auto-regulating itself.

[Anaximander]

i see. but i fail to see the difference between having 20 people and 20 DACs. yes there is the social POV, but well, you can still pay people to come if you really want... my point was to be able to keep scripts running at a high cost, for instance on a massive mining operation.

 

this could be balanced anyways as a game mechanic, so i fail to see how it's on the cheating level.

 

for the part of scripts lagging out the server... no. tiny icky bitty scripts are like a fruit fly compared to the physics the servers would have to compute, and even then the computation could be deferred to other's PCs.

Since you could use your off-time to act as one of those online keepers, there is no too big advantage unless you have really big operations, like really big ones, and at that point you could as well have a corp, why not allow people to do a fully 1 vs all play?

and the DACs bought for those would be bought with in game money thus inflating the DAC price thus auto-regulating itself.

DACs = buy them with real money to enable you something you can't without real money. Therefore, pay-2-win, in the context of DAC-to-have-scripts-working-offline.

[BliitzTheFox]

We shouldn't really be using DACs for this purpose, we can make it expensive, but DACs would tip the balance. Also there should be efficiency penitalties if you aren't actually using real people. The entire process should be highly discouraged if it is in the game at all. A large corporation should always be able to out produce one person.

[Lethys]

players will ALWAYS have an advantage over an automated construct (as said by JC in the interview), no matter what (turrets, mining, building, scanning,...)

[Wicpar]

Alright, what about immense quantities of energy? Requirering the equivalent of a 100m wide fusion reactor? Called the quantum activator?

[Anaximander]

Alright, what about immense quantities of energy? Requirering the equivalent of a 100m wide fusion reactor? Called the quantum activator?

Still, the scripts would require CPU to run, and if you are not online, there's no CPU to run script onto. That being said, you can work together with other people by formig an organisation and make them delegates that can operate the Lua Scripts in your downtimes. -shrug- MMO I guess

[Wicpar]

this can be solved by implementing script execution on clients that have free cpu, despite them being elsewhere, or implementing in the machanics: a box that generates energy when you are online but executes other's scripts when their cpu is too used, or are offline.

[Anaximander]

this can be solved by implementing script execution on clients that have free cpu, despite them being elsewhere, or implementing in the machanics: a box that generates energy when you are online but executes other's scripts when their cpu is too used, or are offline.

Would you like me to tax YOUR cpu because I am offline?

[Wicpar]

Would you like me to tax YOUR cpu because I am offline?

 

sure if i get something for it

[Anaximander]

sure if i get something for it

Well, that's what the delegating system in the RDMS is for. You hire a person to be online from X to Y hours and they get paid for being online and near the Lua scripts to function. It's much more organic and efficient than taxing the cpu of a guy on the other side of the universe.

[Wicpar]

Well, that's what the delegating system in the RDMS is for. You hire a person to be online from X to Y hours and they get paid for being online and near the Lua scripts to function. It's much more organic and efficient than taxing the cpu of a guy on the other side of the universe.

 

no, it isn't. what you will see is an emergent economy of afk mercenaries. that's all. people leaving their account logged to keep things running.

thing is the only way to avoid that is to think as it as part of the mechanics as the only alternative is banning and punishing it, and that is ridiculous.

[Anaximander]

no, it isn't. what you will see is an emergent economy of afk mercenaries. that's all. people leaving their account logged to keep things running.

thing is the only way to avoid that is to think as it as part of the mechanics as the only alternative is banning and punishing it, and that is ridiculous.

Wait... what do you think graveyard shift guards do at a factory in real life? They are paid to be "AFK" The ones running the Lua scripts on your sleeping times, are the guards you hire. Simple.

[Wicpar]

Wait... what do you think graveyard shift guards do at a factory in real life? They are paid to be "AFK" The ones running the Lua scripts on your sleeping times, are the guards you hire. Simple.

 

as you said

 

DACs = buy them with real money to enable you something you can't without real money. Therefore, pay-2-win, in the context of DAC-to-have-scripts-working-offline.

 

what would prevent you from having 2-3+ accounts? at least thinking of it as a mechanic would allow for some degree of control on the NQ side.

[Anaximander]

as you said

 

 

what would prevent you from having 2-3+ accounts? at least thinking of it as a mechanic would allow for some degree of control on the NQ side.

Are those 2-3 accounts hosted by the server?

[Hotwingz]

...

what would prevent you from having 2-3+ accounts?...

Would be a little bit sad if a person prefers to multibox instead of interacting with other players. Eventhough I know this happens frequently in other mmo's.

 

Since a human will always be better then a script I dont really understand why you want your scripts to run even when you are not online.

 

If you want a factory that produces 24/7 you should hire people to make that work.

 

I suspect that while an autonomous production line will be possible I doubt it wouldnt require some form of real time user input. Just having alternate accounts standing there might not work at all.

[Wicpar]

Are those 2-3 accounts hosted by the server?

 

nope, but is the opposite? not necessarily, there are a lot of ways to mitigate that, and scripts are extremely cheap to run, unless they didn't think through the scripting mechanics enough, which would be wired coming from them.

 

Would be a little bit sad if a person prefers to multibox instead of interacting with other players. Eventhough I know this happens frequently in other mmo's.

 

Since a human will always be better then a script I dont really understand why you want your scripts to run even when you are not online.

 

If you want a factory that produces 24/7 you should hire people to make that work.

 

I suspect that while an autonomous production line will be possible I doubt it wouldnt require some form of real time user input. Just having alternate accounts standing there might not work at all.

 

since it is gonna happen anyway, and persons will always be more efficient than scripts, what is the point preventing it, technical issues aside because it shouldn't be taken in account in gameplay decisions, unless it is a strict: it's impossible and you can prove it.

 

humans in video games are extremely unreliable if there isn't a relationship, and who the hell wants to watch a factory anyways?!

preventing this would promote unfun grind-like jobs that give a lot of money, and this is not the point of the game isn't it?

 

i didn't realize at the start but balancing this aspect of the game is extremely important as it could have major effects on the gameplay, and a, simple ignore it and it will go away won't work because it just directs mechanics towards afking jobs, that are not fun, or done by bots you pay for with real cash.

[Hotwingz]

...

i didn't realize at the start but balancing this aspect of the game is extremely important as it could have major effects on the gameplay, and a, simple ignore it and it will go away won't work...

On that I agree completely.

There are indeed some serious questions around this topic.

 

On the example of the factory, I can imagine there will be people who would enjoy working in a factory. And as I suggested if there is some real time input required to keep the chain going you avoid afk workers.

 

Though I will admit that in the example of a base, defence turrets that dont fire if you are not online doesnt seem to make much sense. Although it is quite possible these turrets dont need a script to just fire at people.

 

I am inclined to think that the devs decided on their current solution for a specific reason eventhough we might not understand that reason at the moment for not having played the game.

[wizardoftrash]

On that I agree completely.

There are indeed some serious questions around this topic.

 

On the example of the factory, I can imagine there will be people who would enjoy working in a factory. And as I suggested if there is some real time input required to keep the chain going you avoid afk workers.

 

Though I will admit that in the example of a base, defence turrets that dont fire if you are not online doesnt seem to make much sense. Although it is quite possible these turrets dont need a script to just fire at people.

 

I am inclined to think that the devs decided on their current solution for a specific reason eventhough we might not understand that reason at the moment for not having played the game.

Do we know for sure that YOU have to be there for your scripts to run? If scripts run if any player is close enough, being close to a turret will cause its script to allow it to shoot at that player. Similarly, script-based space mines would also function.

 

If not, that trashes my idea of a law-enforcement that puts up kill contratcs on people that pvp in restricted zones...

[FD3242]

Hello,

 

As you may know, it has been "decided" that scripts are only gonna run in the presence of people, and not otherwise.

Trying to comprehend that choice was easy: it is a question of performance, because every loaded area uses quite a lot of server power.

 

But i have an alternative:

you may have a personal anchor that simulates your presence to be able to run your mining operations, this would allow too to avoid doing afk shenanigans.

 

but, what if you want more?

 

you could use DACs to enable a use of one more of them for one month, thus keeping the performance use compensated for.

 

I hope i am not besides the point...

That sounds pay to win