CO2 recycling vs in-ship biodome

[Talyn VonGoosen]

I guess I was wondering how people felt about ways of producing oxygen on a spaceship.  I personally see two main types of oxygen production.  First and foremost would be CO2 recycling or "scrubbing" which would probably be the easiest to incorporate.  The second, and possibly more complicated, would be establishing a thriving biosphere inside the ship. Though I feel that creating a biodome may be difficult (you'd have to consider a lot of factors, especially how the plants will interact with humans in terms of the photosynthetic and respiratory interaction).

 

But I was thinking that if plants carried with them a value (ie 1 mature tree = enough oxygen for 2 people) it would be easier to equate how many trees you would need to support a crew of "x".  Say your ship has 1000 people, you'd need 500 trees on your ship.  Any less and your ships systems would begin showing that in "x hours" you will be down to "x% oxygen reserves" and so forth.

 

Do you believe that a ship with an active and effective biosphere could replace or at least limit the need for CO2 fixers? Just for reference I chose two examples from more "recent" Sci-fi series of what I guess I'm trying to ask.

 

Botanical Cruiser - Battlestar Galactica

 

vs.

 

Carbon Dioxide Scrubbers - Stargate Universe

[SimonVolcanov]

I'm not even sure they'll implement an oxygen-system for the same reason they'll only implement locally dynamic water (if I remember this correctly). 

But on the assumption that you could have at least an ship-wide oxygen level, opposed to section a ship and have several, biomodules could be a thing. 

I'm thinking maybe whole decks for larger ships (if we even get to build something with more than one deck. Gathering resources might become rather tedious)

and additionally the CO2 scrubbers. Maybe have the scrubbers draw more power, but less space consuming

[Lethys]

In the DUE interview jc told us: no leaking of oxygen from a spaceship. So at first there will be only a simple model like: it's a ship so it has atmosphere. No physics and calculations

[Talyn VonGoosen]

In the DUE interview jc told us: no leaking of oxygen from a spaceship. So at first there will be only a simple model like: it's a ship so it has atmosphere. No physics and calculations

 

Yeah, and I completely agree with having a simple model at launch, definitely don't want to overreach.  I guess this was more of a theoretical question for late game development and whether this could even be a possibility.

 

I'm not even sure they'll implement an oxygen-system for the same reason they'll only implement locally dynamic water (if I remember this correctly). 

But on the assumption that you could have at least an ship-wide oxygen level, opposed to section a ship and have several, biomodules could be a thing. 

I'm thinking maybe whole decks for larger ships (if we even get to build something with more than one deck. Gathering resources might become rather tedious)

and additionally the CO2 scrubbers. Maybe have the scrubbers draw more power, but less space consuming

 

Yeah, I would assume there would at least be CO2 scrubbers, otherwise I guess the game would really be lacking in some terms of realism. But I guess I'm wondering how it would affect passengers if, say, the power drops mid transit and there is no longer enough power to the CO2 scrubbers? Would they kick out and suddenly everyone start taking damage?

[wesbruce]

I guess I was wondering how people felt about ways of producing oxygen on a spaceship.  I personally see two main types of oxygen production.  First and foremost would be CO2 recycling or "scrubbing" which would probably be the easiest to incorporate.  The second, and possibly more complicated, would be establishing a thriving biosphere inside the ship. Though I feel that creating a biodome may be difficult (you'd have to consider a lot of factors, especially how the plants will interact with humans in terms of the photosynthetic and respiratory interaction).

 

But I was thinking that if plants carried with them a value (ie 1 mature tree = enough oxygen for 2 people) it would be easier to equate how many trees you would need to support a crew of "x".  Say your ship has 1000 people, you'd need 500 trees on your ship.  Any less and your ships systems would begin showing that in "x hours" you will be down to "x% oxygen reserves" and so forth.

 

Do you believe that a ship with an active and effective biosphere could replace or at least limit the need for CO2 fixers? Just for reference I chose two examples from more "recent" Sci-fi series of what I guess I'm trying to ask.

 

Botanical Cruiser - Battlestar Galactica

 

vs.

 

Carbon Dioxide Scrubbers - Stargate Universe

Technically they are part of the same system. I.E. all long endurance ships have both. The space shuttle and International space station ran on tanks of oxygen and scrubbers but the space station has some plants for experiments and recently micro greens, food. The plants are not enough to provide much oxygen.

 

All ships have the scrubbers, the ISS, way back through Apollo to the first closed life support system way back in 1860! and the design has barely changed in 156 years! Note Stargate got the scrubbers wrong as a plot device. All CO2 scrubbers are reversible if you have heat and a pressure pump and somewhere to vent the CO2. They are either lithium or calcium based. 

 

The mars analogue work in Hawaii that ended last week used a mix of systems. The Biosphere 2 project a few decades ago uses the latter system. It had problems on the first test but that's been fixed. A lot of carbon got locked up in the soil creating a problem and they had no way to unlock it.  they were als short a few tons of nitrogen which did not help. A fix was found.

Biodomes take up space but there is a cheap solution. Algae farms. Technically the solar oxygen unit in space engineers is one. 

There are actually three systems:

1. Scrub CO2 and dump it; importing oxygen from earth. All current space ships and the ISS does this. Space fighters would do it. Even the star wars x wings did this. 
2. Electrolysis of water to make hydrogen then that is mixed with dry CO2 to make water and methane. Store the methane or make plastics. Recycle the water back to the electrolysis unit. The O2 comes from the electrolysis. Mine ice or Silane [siH₄] to get more hydrogen. This is on most peoples mars plan and it is how the other oxygen unit in space engineers works.
3. The algae farm or biodome system is the third. It was used in Stargate Atlantis and Destiny and in Star Treks Voyager.  Atlantus used the algae farms. Visible in the walls in many scenes. 

The most likely system in DU will be a unit that mixes all three mechanisms in one unit. If your near it your supplied with oxygen, if not, get the helmet on. On Alioth your air supply is set to regenerate all the time (unless you dig too deep). O2 levels will take along time to go down because your nanopack probably has a ton of it in there anyway. Having a Tardis on your belt is very handy. 

[wesbruce]

Yeah, and I ... the power drops mid transit and there is no longer enough power to the CO2 scrubbers? Would they kick out and suddenly everyone start taking damage?

That actually happened on Apollo 13 and they rigged a hand driven pump! It worked. There were lots of light weight crank handles on both Apollo and Soyuz space craft. KISS Keep it simple stupid. The ISS has a few hand pumps.