Active skill training to complement the passive skill training. - Catch up mechanics?

[StoneLegionYT]

I would love if there was a way to active level up skills with passive training to allow people to skill up if they plan on physically playing the game more. I always loved the skill system in eve when I originally played but like many people the skill system and getting behind always sort of sucked.

 

It's a MMORPG and you can't always be number 1 but the thought or idea of it is always something I always held onto in a game. Now when I look at Eve I can't get myself to play because I feel dirty that I can't catch up. I know a lot of people say you can do a lot or you don't need all the skills and such. But that is the thing, not everyone thinks that way.

 

Anyways I love to see an active part to help level skills up but if rushing or no lifers become a problem it could work sort of with the current max possible skill training time one can actually do. Meaning that if someone played for a year you could active level your skills + passive train them up to the year point and then you be hitting the cap.

 

Not sure if anyone else has interesting ideas with this but it could be more of a catch up mechanic then anything. 

[Anaximander]

I would love if there was a way to active level up skills with passive training to allow people to skill up if they plan on physically playing the game more. I always loved the skill system in eve when I originally played but like many people the skill system and getting behind always sort of sucked.

 

It's a MMORPG and you can't always be number 1 but the thought or idea of it is always something I always held onto in a game. Now when I look at Eve I can't get myself to play because I feel dirty that I can't catch up. I know a lot of people say you can do a lot or you don't need all the skills and such. But that is the thing, not everyone thinks that way.

 

Anyways I love to see an active part to help level skills up but if rushing or no lifers become a problem it could work sort of with the current max possible skill training time one can actually do. Meaning that if someone played for a year you could active level your skills + passive train them up to the year point and then you be hitting the cap.

 

Not sure if anyone else has interesting ideas with this but it could be more of a catch up mechanic then anything. 

A group goes in deep space for a month. The Time-to-Upgrade helps them "download" skills from the Arkship while they pretty much do nothing other than mining , exploring. 

 

An active system makes them look stupid for going into deep space where they can't upgrade their PvP skills faster than a guy who is griefing miners left and right.

 

 

Ask for a SkillPoints hard-cap. That will make everyone have the same reach on skills and will make specialisations  an actual thing. Nobody wants to see Everyskill-Man running around.

 

 

I would advocate still for SkillPoints loss on death, but people are mad carebears of losing their common-piece a-dime-a-doen rifles upon death, SkillPoints would push Carebears on the vicious path they so enjoy. 

 

 

So yeah, let us ask for a SkillPoints hard-cap. New players don't have to catch up, they will eventually reach the maximum point of a veterna's skills' training level, while a veteran will have ACTUAL experience with the game mechanics to compensate ,not to mention connections and stuff in the community.

 

 

Unless you want the devs to code in friends for new players. That's in our Lord and Savior's hands, Ranbow Dash and their Friendship is Magic gospel.

[MrFaul]

I'd love to see accelerated learning by practicing the corresponding activities of the selected skill tree, that would be much more rewarding then just a passive approach.

 

This also keeps the fun up for the casual and active players.

Casuals learn with the passive system more efficient and have a perceived noticeable progression but would be annoyed with the grind fest of an active system.

Active pl would get really frustrated with the passive system over time because they don't get that feeling of achievement and might stop playing for good but would probably over ran all Casuals with a active system.

 

In my opinion a healthy mix of both worlds would be awesome.

[Hotwingz]

...

Ask for a SkillPoints hard-cap. That will make everyone have the same reach on skills and will make specialisations an actual thing. Nobody wants to see Everyskill-Man...

I understand what you are saying. I can relate to the sentiment. But what you propose goes against the statement delivered in the kickstarter video.

 

I can imagine us playing this game for years what if in year 2 I decide to switch careers? Should I be forced to roll an alt every time I want to play a different role?

 

How about a miner always being at the mercy of a combat oriented player? In a game that promotes freedom and flexibility I see a hard cap system as counter productive.

 

Unless we can come up with something new and innovative I still see the Eve system as being the best solution for a game like DU.

[MrFaul]

The skill points hard cap is something that could work and I definitely prefer the specialized pl instead of an almighty individual.

 

And for switching roles in that scenario could be a heavy penalty (like losing all special skills) and a one year lock before reassigning skill points again.

[StoneLegionYT]

Yeah I mean if people don't want to see an every skilled man it's time to tell them to play WoW or something. Sadly I hate non every skilled man games but guess what? That is old and out of the window. More and more games are removing classes and letting people be every skilled like old MMORPG's how they should be. Though if it's time based caps I would not be mad.

 

Example:

 

Lets say there is 10,000 skill levels in total and each skill can be trained to 10 levels for fun so 1,000 unique skills. Maybe each skill has exp of say 100, 1000, 10000, etc. I would understand if we got an allotment of say 100k exp a month or something that style... Each month it expands further and further.

 

This system it means if you slept in and forgot to change your skill training you don't suffer much and if you are new to the game you could catch up slowly overtime with maybe accelerated training (slightly) or some other active training method. Maybe if you are within that months quota targeting fine then you can't use those active training features. 

 

We can't just do another Second Life and Punish new players and see hey bud you only need 10mil sp's.... Because that is discouraging and one the reasons Eve has not actually grown much but maintained it's population and 90% of the population if not more is pure vets / alts. 

[MrFaul]

Regardless of which system is used, it shouldn't take more than one year to reach the final skill for any given specialization if you focus on it.

 

I really hate EVEs skill system even with the ingame primer and external planner it is a behemoth and completely unintuitive for new players, solo players won't know that you are supposed to use your skill boost in the beginning to ramp up the learning skills and waste month later on to catch up.

 

DU needs and deserves something better.

[Hotwingz]

I really hate EVEs skill system even with the ingame primer and external planner it is a behemoth and completely unintuitive for new players,...

It is. I think the main problem with Eve's skill system isnt the fact that it is timebased but the fact that the system is bloated.

 

There is just too much of it. While you can argue that it is deep I would call it inflated. Lets not pretend that Eve's "decline" is only a result from the skill system. The biggest hurdle with Eve has always been an image problem. Combined with the ingame culture and the complete failure of the game to explain the most basic things to a new player.

 

For older players its not so much a problem. They naturally grew with the game learning as the game expanded. But for most newcomers it is a frustrating experience.

 

I am open to improvements on the system as long as it is flexible.

 

An example I can think of is instead of adding more and more skills each year you could just introduce new elements and ways to interact with the world.

[StoneLegionYT]

Also there is a massive difference between DU and Eve where in Eve you fly ships. You don't have to worry much but of course better training helps. With DU it's a FPS game... If you have a skill to allow the user to run then it beyond silly. Where Eve if they had Run they would for sure have a skill to train run lol. As a FPS / Third person style game you can't expect and I really hope that they don't limit normal interactions too much or will all be spending first few months training how to walk or walk faster haha.

[Vorengard]

Are we here to complain about the EVE skill system? Or are we here to talk about what we want to see in DU? 

 

That being said, I have no problem with passive-only training plans so long as the gameplay is balanced in such a way that success is not dependent on a character's number of skill points/levels/whatever. If that is the case, as it largely is in similar games like EVE, then not having an active component isn't important. In a system where success isn't based on skill levels there's still incentive to do things all the time because that's what you need to do to learn to be good at something. To use the already tired example, in EVE it genuinely does not matter how many skill points you have if you do not know fundamental game concepts and strategies. 5 million SP and basic PvP skills beats a 150 SP carebear with no combat experience every day all day.

 

That's what I want to see in DU, and for building and mining as well as PvP. Skill should be about understanding complex game mechanics, not an essentially arbitrary amount of skill points.

 

Likewise, hard skill caps are a bad idea because it's an arbitrary restriction on fun and player freedom. If you make the possible skills so wide nobody could ever train them all, then there's no reason to limit it. This is something I think EVE does correctly, because there isn't a person in the game that is perfect at everything. The game simply has not been around long enough for anyone to train every single skill to 5.

[Lethys]

That's what I want to see in DU, and for building and mining as well as PvP. Skill should be about understanding complex game mechanics, not an essentially arbitrary amount of skill points.

 

This.

 

And Ironbank has all V (through Skill injectors) with 486million sp. Dr caymus (no skill injectors, only time) is at 320million.