Light Propulsion

[Kairos]

A recent theory circulating around the scientific community in regards to space travel is the use of light as a propulsion method to reach great speeds (around 30% the speed of light). What if in-game we could create light/laser stations to propel lightweight space crafts within a closed system of planets. This could create a kind of interplanetary highway if you will and be a method of transportation while subsequently becoming the centerpiece of the economy within a planetary system. 

[Vulpin]

I'm not sure about the use of this concept for small ship travel, but say you use it for long distance efficient material transportation, you can save fuel by pre-programmed routes instead of the costly job of shipping via freighter. A sub light shipping route is a fantastic idea though, but if you have to actively keep your ship at 30% light, it won't be nearly as cheap.

[Kairos]

I totally agree with the fuel efficiency for long distance material transportation and these routes could be strategic targets for guilds in conflict as they directly affect the economy. If you destroy a route, the income for a guild or city decreases and therefore hinders all aspects of production.

 

As for the 30% speed of light, this is keeping in line with real world physics, but as time goes on we could be looking at greater percentages. 

[rmhenn]

I agree with the previous posts, but what about also using it as a form of transport like the streetcars in San-francisco? you could have two base stations where passengers get on and off, the base stations then fire them into space and to another planet, the base station there uses another laser to slow them down and eventually stop, passengers get off, rinse, and repeat.

[Kairos]

Definitely, so unlike Stargates that promise long-distance travel, these stations could provide cheaper travel for citizens from short to medium distances within an interplanetary system.

[Halo381]

I agree with the previous posts, but what about also using it as a form of transport like the streetcars in San-francisco? you could have two base stations where passengers get on and off, the base stations then fire them into space and to another planet, the base station there uses another laser to slow them down and eventually stop, passengers get off, rinse, and repeat.

 

Idk if it'll be possible to reach another planet from a mass driver on the surface. I assume you'd need some extra form of propulsion to get you all the way there. now, from space, it's possible. It's simply a matter of "Can we launch car sized objects from a mass driver" and "How can we slow them down"

[Vulpin]

I like the concept, but I feel that if you could transition between planets with that kind of system, people would tend to stagnate with expansion. If you used this concept as a awesome way to transition between different player/group controlled tiles on a planet, that would add a interesting mechanic for battles, allowing different kinds of strategies involving moving troops from one battle field to the opposite site, in essence creating a super dynamic flanking system, as well as being a nice and compact transportation system.

[Kairos]

Idk if it'll be possible to reach another planet from a mass driver on the surface.

 

Actually, researchers have said that with a scaled up version of the station we would be able to send a full-sized, 100 kg spacecraft to Mars from the surface of the Earth in a matter of days. So it's not entirely impossible. https://mic.com/articles/135954/nasa-laser-propulsion-system-could-send-ships-to-mars-in-just-days#.HzJEd7Glm

 

 

I like the concept, but I feel that if you could transition between planets with that kind of system, people would tend to stagnate with expansion.

 

My initial idea was to connect systems of planets with trade and transportation. Thus creating aspects within the universe such as sectors or "countries" per se. I do acknowledge your fear, but I believe that within this system there will be still people who go out to explore and create their own systems throughout the cosmos. 

 

As for your idea on the battle aspect, I think this would be really awesome and great mechanic.

[Halo381]

Actually, researchers have said that with a scaled up version of the station we would be able to send a full-sized, 100 kg spacecraft to Mars from the surface of the Earth in a matter of days. So it's not entirely impossible. https://mic.com/articles/135954/nasa-laser-propulsion-system-could-send-ships-to-mars-in-just-days#.HzJEd7Glm

 

 

 

My initial idea was to connect systems of planets with trade and transportation. Thus creating aspects within the universe such as sectors or "countries" per se. I do acknowledge your fear, but I believe that within this system there will be still people who go out to explore and create their own systems throughout the cosmos. 

 

As for your idea on the battle aspect, I think this would be really awesome and great mechanic.

 

100kg really isn't that heavy though.... 

[Kairos]

100kg really isn't that heavy though.... 

Yeah, that's why my original idea was for light-weight space crafts that could transport materials between planets. Thankfully physics in space exploration is always expanding. Hopefully the technology in-game is more advanced than what we have today (yet still grounded in real-world engineering) and thus able to create stations with the ability to shoot a multitude of powerful enough photons to propel a space craft with substantial mass for transportation. 

[Cornflakes]

I'll just quote a favourite webpage of mine on that topic

"one lousy Newton of thrust takes three hundred freaking megawatts!!"

(two newton for the case of a mirror sail instead of absorption or an on board laser, aka double efficiency)

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist.php#id--Other--Photon

Thats the absolute physical upper bound for the efficiency of a photon drive.

You cannot go better while staying physically correct.

its also independent of the wavelenght of the light you are using, you just trade photon amount for photon energy.

 

 

The only advantage photon drives have is that the spaceship itself doesnt have to drag around much in terms of reaction mass or reactor. But you need a spacecraft thats essentially a mirrored baloon that ideally has no density at all

So you can scale that thing basically to infinity, which you have to to get any kind of useful thrust out of it

 

The whole thing is so woefully energy inefficient that its much more efficient with the seemingly trivial space access in DU to throw a ton or two extra reaction mass into orbit and fly to the next planet over using a more mass inefficient drive.

 

as a note to /how/ power hungry those things are i did some math:

for the 100kg "a couple of days" (i chose three days for my calculation) probe to mars during minimal separation earth-mars (54.6 million km) you need a whopping 24 gigawatts of power to drive that thing!

 

And the power rises linearily with mass, for a 10ton craft you need 2.4 /terawatt/ to do the trip.

About 1/6th of the world energy consumption of today.

 

And that is in addition to the small side effect of the thing being a giant laser death ray which can engage pretty much anything within an orbital diameter of its host planet.

With all the assorted political and gameplay problems of a doomsday weapon that can strike a large part of a solar system.

[Kairos]

Damn son! You really know your physics. I've only done like high school physics and was really only going off some scientific articles. But you did the maths and everything, kudos to you. I guess its back to the drawing board for me.

[Cornflakes]

studying physics does things to your mind maaan!

 

The realistic physics may not be a good idea for a game, but maybe the "basic idea" of the whole can be used?

 

Maybe in the form of interplanetary "acceleration gates" or similar?

Something that can throw you through a solar system at faster than normal speeds or lower fuel consumption.

[Atmosph3rik]

While it's fun for game mechanics to have a basis in scientific reality i'm a lot more concerned with whether they make a game more fun and unique.

 

All it takes is a little creative thinking and literally anything can be justified with theoretical science.  Just take a look at the lore we have so far.

 

I can't remember where i saw this but i remember watching some show or movie where ships were attaching to a beam of energy to travel at a high speed.  Anyway it looked very cool.

 

Some kind of fast travel based on attaching to or traveling inside a beam of energy might be a way for smaller or slower ships to travel between systems.  Like highways for ships that can't handle FTL travel.

[Kairos]

Some kind of fast travel based on attaching to or traveling inside a beam of energy might be a way for smaller or slower ships to travel between systems.  Like highways for ships that can't handle FTL travel.

That's what the idea was based off, kind of like an interstellar highway between close planets that aren't far enough for stargate use. A form of transport that has low fuel consumption as well as acting as strategic battle targets, like the way bridges were big targets to disrupt the enemy's movement and material transportation.