Graphical programming - easier scripting for newbies?

[Anaximander]

Actually, most of you are so narrow-minded that you didn't even look up what LUA is, or how EASY it is to learn.

They turned LUA into an "attach Block-A to Block-B", giving you premade templates of commands for your basic ship designs.

And you are still asking JC to go back on his DevBlog and maim his vision of the game, because you can't sit down and learn a 10-page manual on LUA. 

10-Pages. That's all of LUA. And the devs won't even add half of it because they don't NEED it.

You do seem like some conservative minds, that fight off any possibility of change (or effort to change) like it's a swarm of mosquitos, fearing that learning code will somehow make you... what?

And it seems so high and mighty some of you "artsy spirits" to want to take away art from the hands of programmers. Because most of US, won't be able to make mosaics with microvoxels and have the correct color-bleed from voxel to voxel to give the impression of a painting that only YOU would be able to make or make it likeable to the eye.

But hey, keep recruiting people, this way you may go for a "we all leave if you don't make LUA into a TETRIS mini-game", because that's what you are, a demagogue, a guy who claims he is for "the little guys who don't know code" but haves PIRATE in your organisation's name, because hey, if you are in the majority it's all fine, but if you are the minority, "UNFAIR OMG UNFAIR".

You read the DevBlog and you got the memo, in any case I would consider you of low intelligence. Asymmetrical ships won't function properly and you do seem the kind of avant-garde artist who will try to make ships of alien designs with sunch amazing contours, they will be unflyable without A LOT of scripting.

Which is OKAY, because that's how a COMMUNITY works. Someone is the designer, someone else is the artist and someone else is the coder. If you can't do a hat trick it's okay, nobody is like Elon Musk.


Peace.
 

[Wardion2000]

Well said Wardion2000. You might be right...well and if this is the case I admit defeat.

 

No, don't do that.  I don't think your viewpoint lacks merit.  Merely IF it is an actual issue.  Giving voice to a possible concern is fine.  I just balk at the idea that something WILL happen unless it is changed or that it is alright to broad stroke an entire group of people and say we don't want change so we can hold some kind of advantage over others.

 

 

I was under the impression that Novaquark was creating a single shard sandbox where hundreds of thousands of people can build cool stuff, explore,  create worlds, governments and factions... and to possibly make some money on the side with a healthy fan base existing of people who adore many aspects of game play. I must have missed the Dev Blog about how the game is designed to solely cater to people who code and that the other aspects of game play take second stage to coders and that Novaquark is ok with a 20 year plan to recoup the investment cost of making Dual Universe due to their infinitesimal player base of coders.

 

I am sorry for misunderstanding that Novaquark was trying to appeal to as large as player base as possible. The...the only I can't figure out is why they would need all this server tech designed to hold thousands of players in a small space. I don't understand why they felt the burning desire to change game engines to a game engine that handled a larger player load. I don't understand why some of us were invited into alpha to test the building tools as the prolific builders we are.

 

I am confused...all of a sudden so many things are not adding up.

 

I too am under this impression.  However, I don't believe this game will fail over an entirely IMAGINED set of circumstances.  Complex coding and building is a STATED design goal. (Link here)  Novaquarks goals are VERY ambitious. Perhaps too ambitious, but they are clearly stated.  And Novaquark seems to think they can attract a large enough player base with these game aspects.  I agree.  

 

You keep equating that having the complex aspect of coding will somehow ruin the success of the game by driving away the player base or that it makes everything else secondary.  I believe that that in-game coding is a selling point and will ATTRACT more players not drive them away.  I also believe that people will focus on whatever aspect of play they enjoy most.  If that is coding then yes, everything else will be secondary.  If it isn't, then coding will be secondary.  

[Anaximander]

@Wardion2000

Thank you. Here, have a 5-star rating from me. If i could give it one every other day, I would do so as well.

[Bella_Astrum]

Peace.

 

 

Sounds like someone is just upset because their desire to join was rejected.

[Anaximander]

Sounds like someone is just upset because their desire to join was rejected.

Sounds like you are making an unrelated remark to the post because you want to derail the discussion to another subject. Because I am right.

 

Also, let me see how much Kiklix's integrity can go. I mean, we all want to see how many things he will get out there. Like my username's secret, why I use magenta colors for my thread comments.

 

Yeah, you went there, but I won't follow. Mud is for pigs.

[Bella_Astrum]

Sounds like you are making an unrelated remark to the post because you want to derail the discussion to another subject. Because I am right.

 

If you say so.

 

My final thought on the topic at hand is that I'm going to reserve my opinion until I see/hear more about this from NovaQuark. It's early days yet, as I love to say, and things can change, or be altered. 

[Dhara]

As much as I hate to be in any kind of agreement with the twerkmonster, I don't think that this is going to be the issue that some of my comrades think it will be.

 

I understand your point Kik and I do agree to some extent.  I do not want to be an elite that tries to intimidate others from scripting.  I actually might like to be involved in helping teach others what I can.  I just have to try my best to convince you that Lua is not what you guys think it is. It is not some high level programming language. Scrpiters won't have some mysterious God powers and be able to tap into the server at will and gain any info or anything that they want.  It's just not going to be like that.  Coders will only be able to manipulate what the developers decide to let them manipulate.  And I don't think the devs are stupid enough to make it so programmers can code everyone else out of the economy. 

 

They WILL have brains though. And if they are creative enough, and come up with something awesome that no one thought of before, then they probably should allowed to shine?  Right?  I mean, we're all here to have fun.  What if I build the bestest voxel hideout ever and it sells like hotcakes and I  become filthy rich right off the bat.  Might not other players accuse me of taking advantage of MY skill?  I mean heck, I've been building in LM for two years now.  I'm betting there will be some who would think I have an unfair advantage.  But how do game programmers program a player's skill out of the game?

 

Look If we find some God-like scripter out there who is wreaking havoc on the universe, eating up all the money and resources and cutting everyone else out, then to me  that just sounds like a really good target to pursue.  Take out his resources.  Reverse engineer his creations and undercut him.  Take control of his territory and stop folks from shopping there.  I mean if he's really got a monster hold on the market like that, then I'm betting that many other groups would find him a tasty target too.  There will be many ways that we, as players, can effect the balance of the game too.  It's not all up to the devs or the coders in the game. 

 

Well, that's my two cents anyway.  And now I think I'm going to run and hide before my Legate catches me and strings me up. 

[nietoperek]

*Ekhm*

 

@ Dhara_Elysande @ CaptainTwerkmotor

 

You still (on this stage I suppose that you do it deliberately) miss key point of this whole topic and furiously fight with non-existing thread.

 

I can repeat, if you do not read it correctly (or you can just read first post in this topic): we DO NOT WANT TO MADE SCRIPTING HARDER FOR PROGRAMMERS - or restrict programmers in any other way.

 

We just want try to LOWER ENTRY POINT FOR NON-PROGRAMMERS - and we are being attacked for that and just that (!)

 

And for rest of so-called arguments... ehhh... I do not want respond to such level of banter, just read this and this. LUA is easy in your worlds. It not mean that it is easy at all. I want to remind that smallest sample to back such opinions must be at last 30 persons big and totally random. So, before you collect such statistic, please, try to stop saying "I KNOW LUA THEREFORE IT IS EASY". No, it is not - you are just clever or mathematically inclined.

 

Thank you.

 

PS: And mixing pure roleplaying things with opinions of real-life players... Dude... you only embarrass yourself, 'cause you clearly can't tell difference between game and real life. It is not sign of healthy mindset, you know ;/

[Anaximander]

*Ekhm*

 

@ Dhara_Elysande @ CaptainTwerkmotor

 

You still (on this stage I suppose that you do it deliberately) miss key point of this whole topic and furiously fight with non-existing thread.

 

I can repeat, if you do not read it correctlyn (or you can just read first post in this topic): we DO NOT WANT TO MADE SCRIPTING HARDER FOR PROGRAMMERS - or restrict programmers on any other way.

 

We just want try to LOWER ENTRY POINT FOR NON-PROGRAMMERS - and we are being attacked for that and just that (!)

 

And for rest of so-called arguments... ehhh... I do not want respond to such level of banter, just read this and this. LUA is easy in your worlds. It not mean that it is easy at all. I want to remind that smallest sample to back such opinions must be at last 30 persons big and totally random. So, before you collect such statistic, please, try to stop saying "I KNOW LUA THEREFORE IT IS EASY". No, it is not - you are just clever or mathematically inclined.

 

Thank you.

There's no lower point than a Graphical User Interfac for programming, with pre-made commands already in place. You can't make a toast you got from deli any more easy to access and enjoying it. If you want it to be better, you have to learn how to cook. And you are asking for a toaster that can make you any form of toast imaginable, without changing the heating plates.

[nietoperek]

Yeah. "It can't be easier" is old banter from techno-elite which fear about theirs sandcastles of "arcane knowledge" behind which is only obfuscation and mud-gas.

 

Not so long ago all IT guys and engineers think that you can operate computers only by command-line. And somehow we have Windows or MacOS, where you even do not see console...

[Dhara]

 

*Ekhm*

 

@ Dhara_Elysande @ CaptainTwerkmotor

 

...snip...

 

Did you really mean to include me in this post?  I have not been attacking anyone on this forum.

[Anaximander]

Yeah.

 

Not so long ago all IT guys and engineers think that you can operate computers only by command-line. And somehow we have Windows or MacOS, where you see do not see console...

Windows OS and MacOS are Operating Softwares, they are Graphical User Interfaces. But last I've checked, you can't unblock a RAM port by the Control Panel options. You need cmd commands for that. And guess who will unblock your RAM ports if they bug out on you or fizzle out. An engineer or a programmer. And what you just made is an actual Straw Man arguement.

[nietoperek]

 

Did you really mean to include me in this post?  I have not been attacking anyone on this forum.

 

 

I want point that you used "I know it, therefore this is easy" argument. Sorry if you understand it different.

 

EDT: Cpt. T. - you still miss key point. And before you read first post properly, I cease discussion with you.

 

PS: Key point (if you cannot understand that) is that there will be no upper limit for your programming might. But start with programming must be as easy, as we can make it

Edited July 24, 2016 by nietoperek

[Anaximander]

I want point that you use "I know it, therefore this is easy" argument. Sorry...

In fact she defended your point in her post, but I guess rage blinds people

[nietoperek]

In fact she defended your point in her post, but I guess rage blinds people

 

Yeah, as much as God-complex and illusory superiority 

[Bella_Astrum]

 

 

PS: Key point (if you cannot understand that) is that there will be no upper limit for your programming might. But start with programming must be as easy, as we can make it

 

I agree Nietoperek. (I've run out of likes again) 

 

edit: *Grabs hold of Dhara and Nietroperek and hugs them together* 

[Dhara]

Oops, didn't know I wasn't allowed to admit that I know stuff on these forums!  Wow.  So, sorry!  I'll keep that in mind next time and only post on threads that I know absolutely nothing about. My bad.  

 

Wait, will someone hand me my "God-complex and illusory superiority" cloak laying on the floor over there?  I should probably take it with me on my way out.

 

Thanks for the hug Lady Much appreciated.

[nietoperek]

/REMOVED/

Edited July 24, 2016 by nietoperek

[Thoger]

I don't know, Lua is one of the easiest things to get in to already, barring something like LSL.

Comparing code samples, LSL looks more familiar to me beause it has a C-type syntax, wheras Lua looks ... different. LSL scripts for vehicles can get quite complicated, so if Lua is supposed to be less easy, I don't see non-programmers learning to do awsome ship scripting in no time. Most people interested in vehicles in Second Life or OpenSimulator don't (think they can) write their own scripts, they use open scripts or buy vehicles where the script is hidden.

 

I hope the vehicles in Second Life / OpenSimulator are not representative for the performance that can be achieved with scripting, because they are far from the quality of "hardcoded" vehicles in games.

[Megaddd]

Comparing code samples, LSL looks more familiar to me beause it has a C-type syntax, wheras Lua looks ... different. LSL scripts for vehicles can get quite complicated, so if Lua is supposed to be less easy, I don't see non-programmers learning to do awsome ship scripting in no time. Most people interested in vehicles in Second Life or OpenSimulator don't (think they can) write their own scripts, they use open scripts or buy vehicles where the script is hidden.

I hope the vehicles in Second Life / OpenSimulator are not representative for the performance that can be achieved with scripting, because they are far from the quality of "hardcoded" vehicles in games.

The main difference here will be that we won't have to write our own physics intraction code

 

I think the direction NQ is headed with the plug and play elements executing snippets of code is very accessible, and doesn't have major drawbacks for overall desireable script complexity.

 

I think y'all need to cool it and have more faith in the team than that

[PhunkeyMonkey]

I dont get all this elitist coders are going to rule the game and builders should be eternaly grateful to bask in the light of the holy code they produce?

and so much utter nonsense "No need for command lines anymore", "Coders getting preferential treatment".. and it devolved into hate against coders after only 1 page 

 

Coding / Information System Design is a skill you can learn, just like doing 4 years at a animation academy to learn 3d art and design.. by all means everyone can build something cool with time and dedication but the truly awesome stuff is made by people that dedicated alot of time to get good at it so in the future when the game goes live i will probarly be flying a awesome ship, made by a guy that lives and breathes scifi and voxelgames, has a 8 year professional concept artist background with a special in spaceships.. probarly costly but totally worth his skill

 

On topic : well after the already planned stuff are done and more time opens up in planning a coding GUI could be good for newbies that want to do some basic scripting like timing stuff etc but right now theres not enough need, you can still build a ship and fly it without scripting at all, scripting is still for advanced behaviour and tweaking so i would say its a "nice to have" feature but not critical

 

 Novaquark will be providing several useful “starter” Component DPUs to start with, as well as smart autoconfigure options to handle the most basic cases. You can get a ship to fly without knowing a thing about DPUs. 

 

 

Source  (from the bottom of the page)

[Dominar]

Well, this took a rather bland turn.

Coding with blocks is possible. Adding that ability to DU is not something that is so unimaginable. It is possible to an extent, which is all new players need. As an A grade math student throughout my schooling years (and counting) I can tell you from experience, not everyone gawd it.