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Territory Claim Unit function suggestion


Anaximander

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Make it work thusly :



1) Claim the Territory : Put down a T.C.U. provided for you at the start of the game, later on, you may be expansions for the unit, giving you even more space of "nobody else builds here but me" power.


2) Provide Administration Tiers : Similar to miltary ranks. The owner, has power over all. Lesser ranks have access to different tiers of freedom inside your claim. Can't let Private Derp McTrollson going around, tearing down buildings because he wants to throw a tantrum, but let him /kick people off your property if they, let's say, go in a toxic rampage. Gotta keep your squeaky clean apperance after all, because 3) .


3) Your Territory, Your Nation : Tax people utilising a Trading Terminal. Economics & Politics, am I right?

4) Make them Hackable : Make them a possible Hill for a "King of the Hill" ground combat situation. Hide your T.C.U. behind reinforced blast doors if need be. Just make sure nobody else can get in there, but you, the owner. If they wanna get your turf, they will have to get to the T.C.U. first after all.



Let me know if you think tihs is a good idea.

Note that this is not a discussion over Safe-Zones. This is only for Claims and T.C.U. contesting functions and reasons to contest such areas.

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I think given the always on state of things it will need some sort of timer function so that the game doesn't turn into "he's off line lets take all his stuff" 

 

like you have to do something to it, then come back later and do something again. 

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I think given the always on state of things it will need some sort of timer function so that the game doesn't turn into "he's off line lets take all his stuff" 

 

like you have to do something to it, then come back later and do something again. 

You can treat your territory like a bar. Last call 5 mins before logging out, then kick everyone off your property. If you don't log into your account for a month, it's fair game afterwards. Plus, you missed the point of securing your TCU. The unit itself will be the "terminal" at which you set administration rights, and let's face it, there are people who are logged in a game 24/7, so they can act as wardens of sort.

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 there are people who are logged in a game 24/7, so they can act as wardens of sort.

 

 

as a veteran of time zone warfare, no there are not it may seem like it. but there's always big gaping holes of undefended time. 

 

and if you can just kick everyone off your area what's the point of it being something can take. It will just end up being "Oh no somethings happening kick everyone out"  or constantly set to only allow a few people access to the area required to flip control

 

To have contestable control points enemies need access to the point of contention or its a game of just sitting and waiting for someone to make an error in setting things up if that's the case it might as well just be a permanent claim

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as a veteran of time zone warfare, no there are not it may seem like it. but there's always big gaping holes of undefended time. 

 

and if you can just kick everyone off your area what's the point of it being something can take. It will just end up being "Oh no somethings happening kick everyone out"  or constantly set to only allow a few people access to the area required to flip control

 

To have contestable control points enemies need access to the point of contention or its a game of just sitting and waiting for someone to make an error in setting things up if that's the case it might as well just be a permanent claim

 

Set a cooldown on /groupkicking people off your property and provide a device for the attackers that can jam the TCU's kicking-out-of-property function altogether. 

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which brings us back to the wait for him to log off disable the thing i need to disable and then take control while he sleeps

It would need to be balanced, indeed, and that's a thing for the devs to tune in. And you are thinking of a shack in the middle of Crapville for one guy to log off = steal his shit. I'm talking cities, with people in them. Your territory has people who sell stuff, people who create stuff. You might be a loner, but most people in MMOs are not. It's bound to have people in your city day and night. And as I said, administration rights. Unless you are going to bring thousnads of people to "steal shit" from a sleeping city, which you won't , because so many griefers in one team cannot exist, due to them being most of the time toxic and racist towards anyone who has not the same ears as them. So, your imaginary point of "robbing an entire city blind" is shit, because a big city, will have people who are logged in at different times. Plus, if you can afford a city that big, you probably can afford people who are your dedicated guard in the game.

 

 

And once more, read the topic, not the title. Administration Rights. Just because the king is asleep, doesn't mean the fucking city is sleeping.

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It would need to be balanced, indeed, and that's a thing for the devs to tune in. And you are thinking of a shack in the middle of Crapville for one guy to log off = steal his shit. I'm talking cities, with people in them. Your territory has people who sell stuff, people who create stuff. You might be a loner, but most people in MMOs are not. It's bound to have people in your city day and night. And as I said, administration rights. Unless you are going to bring thousnads of people to "steal shit" from a sleeping city, which you won't , because so many griefers in one team cannot exist, due to them being most of the time toxic and racist towards anyone who has not the same ears as them. So, your imaginary point of "robbing an entire city blind" is shit, because a big city, will have people who are logged in at different times. Plus, if you can afford a city that big, you probably can afford people who are your dedicated guard in the game.

 

 

And once more, read the topic, not the title. Administration Rights. Just because the king is asleep, doesn't mean the fucking city is sleeping.

 

All i'm saying is there needs to be a delay mechanism, because you may think these vast cities populated by thousands will always have officers and warriors available to defend it, they wont. Even the largest coalitions will have weak time periods. Even the largest coalitions often have times where there is 0 leadership available to do whats required.

 

I am not a loner, I'm someone who's lead large armies and seen the down fall of empires because of things that happen during sleepy time. Also yes, you can have massive armies of griefers, i see this game already has a goonswarm organization. if its true to the name name sake, get ready for exactly what you think can't and wont happen. 

 

so my quite realistic point of people laying waste to a city (not just 1 person necessarily) is not "shit" as you so eloquently put it. and "dedicated guard" isnt a thing that can happen, its a game people will come and go as they please even if you think you've paid them enough imaginary dollars to sit there all day and all night. 

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All i'm saying is there needs to be a delay mechanism, because you may think these vast cities populated by thousands will always have officers and warriors available to defend it, they wont. Even the largest coalitions will have weak time periods. Even the largest coalitions often have times where there is 0 leadership available to do whats required.

 

I am not a loner, I'm someone who's lead large armies and seen the down fall of empires because of things that happen during sleepy time. Also yes, you can have massive armies of griefers, i see this game already has a goonswarm organization. if its true to the name name sake, get ready for exactly what you think can't and wont happen. 

 

so my quite realistic point of people laying waste to a city (not just 1 person necessarily) is not "shit" as you so eloquently put it. and "dedicated guard" isnt a thing that can happen, its a game people will come and go as they please even if you think you've paid them enough imaginary dollars to sit there all day and all night. 

 

Tell me something, are you thinking that a major, TRADING city, will be in the middle of fucking nowhere? Of course not. It will be a capital city, deep behind a faction's borders. And throughout history, raids have always been focused on the borders. Sure, you can take over an outpost over-night, given the King of the Hill mini-game will take a considerable amount of time, given the "charging" of the hacking device, locating the TCU, neutralising any A.I. turrets and proceeding to engage the takeover, but you can't hope to overtake an entire Empire overnight. The suggestion was for a major city, not Old McNealy's shack at  the end nowhere and the beginning of nothing. 

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1) TUs won't be provided for you at the start of the game. They will require rare resources and high level skills to build and will therefore be expensive. Furthermore I'm totally against TUs granting some kind of hardcoded, artificial power over who can build on a piece of land.

 

2) This kind of functionality will be provided by the Rights and Duties Management System which revolves around creating tags associated with powers and privileges. But again, in the case of TUs and land, it should only be a management tool, not something that physically restricts the actions of unauthorised players.

 

3) See 2). But for payments I'd like to see the possibility of voluntary non-payment. Someone who has to pay rent can choose whether to set up an automatic payment every month or do it manually. They can stop paying whenever they want. The payee is notified of non-payment and it's up to him to do something about it...

 

4) Hacking of TUs is planned though it might not be implemented right away. However, I would argue that destroying or hacking a TU should not necessarily be the first thing an enemy would want to do to take a territory. It might be, but more likely it would be the last.

 

A reinforced timer like in Eve has been confirmed but how this will work in conjunction with hacking, I don't know. Maybe you can only hack after a reinforcement timer, during a final showdown.

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A reinforced time like in Eve had been confirmed but how this will work in conjunction with hacking, I don't know. Maybe you can only hack after a reinforcement timer, during a final showdown.

so i guess the dev's agree a delay is necessary 

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Yes. There is a devblog on territories with a dedicated thread. I think it's in the gameplay mechanics forum. I'd link it but I'm on my phone atm which makes it difficult.

Found it for ya  https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/296-devblog-territory-control/?hl=territories 

 

well i guess i found it for everyone else since you clearly already knew what it said

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@Klatu Satori


Not restricting who builds in YOUR territory, kind of shits all over the whole idea of the TCU. So, I can go in YOUR city, and erect a monumen to llord Dickbutt? Cause that i

 

1) TUs won't be provided for you at the start of the game. They will require rare resources and high level skills to build and will therefore be expensive. Furthermore I'm totally against TUs granting some kind of hardcoded, artificial power over who can build on a piece of land.

2) This kind of functionality will be provided by the Rights, Duties and Management System which revolves around creating tags associated with powers and privileges. But again, in the case of TUs and land, it should only be a management tool, not something that physically restricts the actions of unauthorised players.

3) See 2). But for payments I'd like to see the possibility of voluntary non-payment. Someone who has to pay rent can choose whether to set up a automatic payment every month out, or do it manually. They can stop paying whenever they want. The payee is notified of nonpayment and it's up to him to do something about it...

4) Hacking of TUs is planned though it might not be implemented right away. However, I would argue that destroying or hacking a TU should not necessarily be the first thing an enemy would want to do to take a territory. It might be, but more likely it would be the last.

A reinforced time like in Eve had been confirmed but how this will work in conjunction with hacking, I don't know. Maybe you can only hack after a reinforcement timer, during a final showdown.

 

s what is going to happen. Just admit you want to do that and everyone will accept you for being a Worshipper of Lord Dickbutt.


TCU should be a physical object inside the game, that an enemy has to reach to overide ownership protocols. And stop trying to make Dual into EVE 2.0 . You can't claim a planet from orbit. You better get your ass down there and bring a lot of fire power to take the city. 


And I already suggested a King of the Hill timer. You will need to maintain uplink to the TCU to overtake a city. You die, or run out of resources of X, Y, , you lost ,better lack next week or month.

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HERP-A-DERP DISCLAIMER


The devs have thought of all my points already. Perhaps we should focus the conversation on a viable way of delaying capture. Oh wait, the Territory Claim Unit will be hidden in an entire planet's worth of space. Case closed, kthnxbai.

Thanks to
guttertrash for providing the Devblog article. Credits where credits are due.

 

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@Klatu Satori

Not restricting who builds in YOUR territory, kind of shits all over the whole idea of the TCU. So, I can go in YOUR city, and erect a monumen to llord Dickbutt? Cause that i

 

 

 

s what is going to happen. Just admit you want to do that and everyone will accept you for being a Worshipper of Lord Dickbutt.

TCU should be a physical object inside the game, that an enemy has to reach to overide ownership protocols. And stop trying to make Dual into EVE 2.0 . You can't claim a planet from orbit. You better get your ass down there and bring a lot of fire power to take the city. 

And I already suggested a King of the Hill timer. You will need to maintain uplink to the TCU to overtake a city. You die, or run out of resources of X, Y, , you lost ,better lack next week or month.

First, I most certainly am not trying to make DU into some kind of Eve 2.0.  I would say that the mechanics you are suggesting are closer to Eve. You can only build x if you build y first, etc etc. Also, Nyzaltar has said there will be no direct space to ground combat, at least not at initial launch, so you will always have to land ground troops to take territory.

 

What makes it your territory? The fact that you put a flag down on it somewhere? What makes it your territory should be the fact that you can defend it. If you don't want someone building on "your" land, go and stop them with force instead of relying on an all powerful flag.

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First, I most certainly not trying to make DU into some kind of Eve 2.0, I would say that the mechanics you are suggesting are closer to Eve. You can only build x if you build y first, etc etc. Also, Nyzaltar had said there will be no direct space to ground combat, at least not at initial launch, so you will always have to land ground troops to take territory.

 

What makes it your territory? The fact that you put a flag down on it somewhere? What makes it your territory should be the fact that you can defend it. If you don't want someone building on "your" land, go and stop them with force instead of relying on an all powerful flag.

FYI, the Devblog guttertrash provided shows the devs thought of my idea of administration rights. You can't build in another person's property yo. Space Magictech and stuff.

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Having to get close to the tcu doesnt make sense, the owner could just hide it underground, and since you cant damage blocks, you'd never be able to reach it

Head to the devblog. They explain the whole situation better.

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FYI, the Devblog guttertrash provided shows the devs thought of my idea of administration rights. You can't build in another person's property yo. Space Magictech and stuff.

 

Everything I've said that is fact has come from the devblogs.  Specifically the territories one, (which I pointed out) and the RDMS one https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/272-devblog-rights-duty-management-system-rdms/

 

Nothing in there specifically says that you cannot build on someone else's claimed territory, it only says that territories come with powers such as the right to build on land, mine its resources, etc.  Those powers can be distributed to other players using tags, but they have not said that the game physically stops you from building on land when you don't have the right tag.  The powers and tagging system is a management system so you can control what is legal not what is possible.  

 

This quote from Nyz suggests what I support is likely closer to what the devs have in mind - why would you need to shoot at intruders if intruders are auto-stopped by the game:

 

But yes, the tag system will go further than the RDMS. For example, it will be possible to set some automatized defense systems to shoot at intruders, based on the tags they have (or don't have). It will also be possible to customize visual markers (based on tags) on players you meet in-game. And this will be only visible to the player who put the visual marker, of course. Welcome to Augmented Reality (and lots of opportunities for emergent gameplay).   :)

 

My suggestions also open up whole swaths of gameplay possibilities - such as smuggling, poaching, trespassing, illegal building, policing and police work - all entirely player-led; every law, every crime completely created, commited and enforced by players.

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HERP-A-DERP DISCLAIMER

 

 

The devs have thought of all my points already. Perhaps we should focus the conversation on a viable way of delaying capture. Oh wait, the Territory Claim Unit will be hidden in an entire planet's worth of space. Case closed, kthnxbai.

 

Thanks to guttertrash for providing the Devblog article. Credits where credits are due.

 

 

Well, no.  You are extrapolating.  And TU's will claim territories which are 1km-a-side hexes, not entire planets.  But yes, you can plant your TU deep underground.

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Everything I've said that is fact has come from the devblogs.  Specifically the territories one, (which I pointed out) and the RDMS one https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/272-devblog-rights-duty-management-system-rdms/

 

Nothing in there specifically says that you cannot build on someone else's claimed territory, it only says that territories come with powers such as the right to build on land, mine its resources, etc.  Those powers can be distributed to other players using tags, but they have not said that the game physically stops you from building on land when you don't have the right tag.  The powers and tagging system is a management system so you can control what is legal not what is possible.  

 

This quote from Nyz suggests what I support is likely closer to what the devs have in mind - why would you need to shoot at intruders if intruders are auto-stopped by the game:

 

 

My suggestions also open up whole swaths of gameplay possibilities - such as smuggling, poaching, trespassing, illegal building, policing and police work - all entirely player-led; every law, every crime completely created, commited and enforced by players.

This opens so many prospects of circumventing enemy lines of defenses. My sociopathic side is emerging with the emergent gameplay. I'm tots gonna infiltrate organisations and act as good ol' Buddypal McFinelad. I'm going into Guiness as well. No, not the book of records, the beer. It's gonna take a lot of beer to keep chanelling the different characters I'm going to pretend as being. I'm gonna Moon Knight this bitch ^_^

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