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Agriculture,woodcutting etc in Dual Universe


KingofPR

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I agree with a lot  of the ideas people are having with the survival mechanics, like the idea of making a farm by a river with an irrigation system leading to it so you can use said crop for food and/or medical item. Also what if we could have a device that ferments the crop to in turn make alcoholic beverages in which turn can buff stats but if had too much at a time can lead to an addiction which will Nerf or disable certain abilities (depending on the certain beverage made like wine, beer, etc). Also travelling the stars uses supplies so usage of a cargo bay dedicated to food may be needed (or you could do what ancient barbarian hordes did and sack planets you pass while going to said destination :P). Next there's the idea of a replicator (from the sci-fi series Star Trek) where you use mined resources (minerals for example) and power to feed the machine to make that black coffee the Captain likes  :P. Next it could be a good strategic resource for determining settlement on a planet, also on your ship/space station you can make a space dedicated to farms and not have to really use fuel for occasional stops on allied controlled planets if you want. Finally if at war when besieging a factions city/station/base you can cut off their routes to food which in turn can either make them surrender and submit, force them to attack, or uninstall :lol:

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Yeah it wood be nice to make some decorative furniture/log cabins at the start. I think also there was mention of the tree sap being used as fuel. But aside from those, there wouldn't be much use for wood later on in the game.

 

As far as other agriculture goes, food was mentioned in another topic and had mostly a negative response. I think it's just too much of a chore and a worry to keep your character fed to make it fun.

There are several uses for wood in fact, one is early stage fuel - for bioreactors which are wood burning generators. Then you have the use of wood later game as a decorative element - imagine wood floors on a high end luxury ship - or wood paneling even, potentially fancy woodwork. As you can see it does have its purpose. 

 

The problem with food is that unless the requirement is low enough to be trivial, which defeats the whole purpose, is that it limits your ability to just log on and sit around talking to people. It may well create situations where not playing the game is the best move one can make in a given situation and I don't think that is healthy for a game. Survival mechanics sound fun on paper but once they are ingame they can be a real detriment to fun.

There are several other games where food is done quite well, and if you are the idiot that does forget to pack a good amount of supplies with you on long trips, you do kind of deserve to starve. 

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If indeed food becomes a thing in the game it should be a simple resource, not an elaborate "you are hungry, sit down and manually eat this stuff".  Instead it should be a thing you bring, but you can reduce the need for it by bringing a cryo tube or some other suspended animation system for when you log off.  Logging on to find yourself dead because you forgot to bring a few extra units of food would suck really bad.  In fact I think the survival should be more like Space Engineers, the food thing is too crazy for the distances of travel the devs are talking.

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If indeed food becomes a thing in the game it should be a simple resource, not an elaborate "you are hungry, sit down and manually eat this stuff".  Instead it should be a thing you bring, but you can reduce the need for it by bringing a cryo tube or some other suspended animation system for when you log off.  Logging on to find yourself dead because you forgot to bring a few extra units of food would suck really bad.  In fact I think the survival should be more like Space Engineers, the food thing is too crazy for the distances of travel the devs are talking.

"Sigh. Have pity on the developers, Thor. This game is still in the pre-Alpha stage!"

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Wood can be used as a renewable source of a carbon which can be turned into many things. I would even say that having different types of wood and other plants ready to harvest would make decorations much better even without turning this biomass into something chemically different.

Having to eat and drink is not that great part of most games that deal with it.  It might be fun to grow our own food but it becomes boring chore rather too quickly.

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Wood can be used as a renewable source of a carbon which can be turned into many things. I would even say that having different types of wood and other plants ready to harvest would make decorations much better even without turning this biomass into something chemically different.

Having to eat and drink is not that great part of most games that deal with it.  It might be fun to grow our own food but it becomes boring chore rather too quickly.

Well this game is about advancing technology so it could be that while we have to grow our own food in the beginning we could be able to make auto harvesting hydroponics latter or automated farming equipment (its nearly there already).

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There are several other games where food is done quite well, and if you are the idiot that does forget to pack a good amount of supplies with you on long trips, you do kind of deserve to starve. 

 

Indeed, planning a trip around food supplies is an important part of logistics

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Well this game is about advancing technology so it could be that while we have to grow our own food in the beginning we could be able to make auto harvesting hydroponics latter or automated farming equipment (its nearly there already).

Of course as a veteran player of moded MC I know what can be done but I was more concerned about time between necessary chomps if You understand what I mean. I'm fine with having to sow, water and harvest something I just don't like when game forces me to eat every ten minutes.

It's better to have more difficult growing and cooking with much longer periods between eating at least for me. I would even say that eating more thew twice during two hour game session is a bit irritating.

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I think having agriculture and woodcutting is a good idea. I think food is a good idea. Not the "if you don't eat, you die" kind of food.

More of the "if you eat, you get a buff or bonus temporarily" type.

 

I don't think this game needs survival aspects, but anything that adds extra play styles or jobs to the game is something I like.

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In a game that specifically revolves around fighting for survival at every turn, I agree that the need for food/water/sustenance is a good mechanic. But my impression and hope is that the main point of this game will be social interactions between players with creation, destruction, politics and other mechanics acting as a catalyst for those interactions. When basic basic survival is not the main thing in a game but the devs decide to tack on foodlike mechanics anyway, in my experience, most of these mechanics usually boil down to "you need to take a break from playing the game every x amount of time and go interact with this random unfun mechanic before you can continue playing the game". In my opinion these kind of mechanics need to be at the center of the game or they will be more annoying than fun.

 

To me it basically boils down to this, the player should not be incentivized to log off. If a player feels they cannot sit around just chatting with their friends ingame, without interacting with the game in any other way, because doing so actually punishes them that would, in my opinion, be VERY bad for the game. The easy solution to this is making the food requirement low enough to be trivial, but then why have it in the first place.

 

As for the idea of having the player consume food even when they are logged off, that just punishes people who have to be away from the game for extended periods of time, which in my experience from games like this is going to be punishing enough anyway.

 

That being said food is a reasonably good way of going about an upkeep mechanic, making sure people need to bring supplies to support any effort they are undertaking. I think there are better ways to go about it though, that feels less punishing for the individual player. For example fuel, life support, ammo and many many more things and I expect there will be multiple such things in the game.

 

That said I am not against food as a thing, if for example we have npcs in the game I can see food being part of their upkeep mechanic, and I would love for agriculture and forestry to be in the game just like I want mining to be in the game. I'm just againt using it as a survival mechanic.

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-snip-

 

That being said food is a reasonably good way of going about an upkeep mechanic, making sure people need to bring supplies to support any effort they are undertaking. I think there are better ways to go about it though, that feels less punishing for the individual player. For example fuel, life support, ammo and many many more things and I expect there will be multiple such things in the game.

 

That said I am not against food as a thing, if for example we have npcs in the game I can see food being part of their upkeep mechanic, and I would love for agriculture and forestry to be in the game just like I want mining to be in the game. I'm just againt using it as a survival mechanic.

 

Food/hunger works for a couple of purposes: it creates a form of player progression by as the player begins to automate part of food production to free up time for other activities, arguably it is a negative reward because the player is removing a punishment. It is also resource planning, plan an expedition outside of the infrastructure poorly and you die.

 

The problem this isn't a survival game, the progression does not fit thematically. For a game about design and construction food will just turn into poop -- it isn't particularly exciting. Sure a player can design and build systems for food production, but it would be much more fun to design and build systems for hoverboard and ship construction.

 

For resource planning we already can have that with fuel, energy, and ammo. Plan those things poorly and you are just as dead.

 

In other threads I've argued that agriculture can be used to solve the newbie ark resource problem -- simple construction materials can be made from literal renewable materials -- plastics from algae for example. So FARMING can still be an important thing, both on ground and in space, but for more fun mechanics instead of poop production.

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In a game that specifically revolves around fighting for survival at every turn, I agree that the need for food/water/sustenance is a good mechanic. But my impression and hope is that the main point of this game will be social interactions between players with creation, destruction, politics and other mechanics acting as a catalyst for those interactions. When basic basic survival is not the main thing in a game but the devs decide to tack on foodlike mechanics anyway, in my experience, most of these mechanics usually boil down to "you need to take a break from playing the game every x amount of time and go interact with this random unfun mechanic before you can continue playing the game". In my opinion these kind of mechanics need to be at the center of the game or they will be more annoying than fun.

 

To me it basically boils down to this, the player should not be incentivized to log off. If a player feels they cannot sit around just chatting with their friends ingame, without interacting with the game in any other way, because doing so actually punishes them that would, in my opinion, be VERY bad for the game. The easy solution to this is making the food requirement low enough to be trivial, but then why have it in the first place.

 

As for the idea of having the player consume food even when they are logged off, that just punishes people who have to be away from the game for extended periods of time, which in my experience from games like this is going to be punishing enough anyway.

 

That being said food is a reasonably good way of going about an upkeep mechanic, making sure people need to bring supplies to support any effort they are undertaking. I think there are better ways to go about it though, that feels less punishing for the individual player. For example fuel, life support, ammo and many many more things and I expect there will be multiple such things in the game.

 

That said I am not against food as a thing, if for example we have npcs in the game I can see food being part of their upkeep mechanic, and I would love for agriculture and forestry to be in the game just like I want mining to be in the game. I'm just againt using it as a survival mechanic.

 

I agree with this and support it. I am ok with food and growing things to craft items(food could be one of them) but not a huge fan of the you must eat x food every y min or you die. I feel like this game is going to be about space and travel so you already have the logistics of fuel and/or energy and defense from attack. Having to add on another set of items to worry about seems to be a bit much and not really central to the core game concepts of building, exploring, trading and pvp. All of which have limiting factors already.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Today logging is done with big machines like this. I could see that being an arm on a hover speeder. Add a tree seeder to another and some nano-fertility sprayer to Increase growth to not quite minecraft speeds and you have forestry and farming. I have another idea below.  

Komatsu%20harvester%20fuel%20saving.JPG

I can also see a way to make farming biodomes secure and fast but lootable for seeds at least. A process called gleaning; yields seed or  transplants while giving the crop a bonus that benefits the owning player. The raider is just doing a little weeding. 

 

Another option is a bio-harvesting attachment on a speeder/ ground craft produces green matter. The nanofab has three modes carbohydrate extraction, protein enhancement, polymer production on greenhouse. Green house planters and hydroponic shelves produces bio-pharmaceuticals, flavor enhancers, scented flowers, & Heme-root. Add some algae and yeast vats for the ships and dead worlds.

Combine all 10 outputs to make a small range of food items with variable colour. Give the player cook a naming field and with a small range of food files you get a large range of foods. It's been discovered that Heme makes things taste like meat. Combine any three resulting meals to make you space pirate feed and use an autogalley for them. Boring food for the PvP crew fun food for the survivalist and arkzone party set. 

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When you say more depth in PvE... did Landmark had any PvE to begin wiith ? :P In comparison to Landmark, I would take hunting down cows with a lasso as satisfying PvE xD

Hey I can remember when cows were new big thing in minecraft. A good example is the very basic minecraft food system. By about day three you have chests of food, full fields and you don't give a hoot who loots that field as long as they replant and your chests are safe. However if your a food fanatic you down load Pam's Harvest craft and Spice of life mod food becomes way more interesting.  Spice of life makes food much harder, you can't eat the same thing three times and Pam's makes a huge variety of crops, trees and meals.

 

We would not want farm simulator 2316 but if modding is possible we could get it.

Not sure how modding could work on a single shard game. Though I could see one way using a set of default mod blocks, elements and materials, and a messaging system that up dates it client side if you have the mod installed. Not everyone would see the same thing though.  If possible a big sign; "Warning modded system", would be needed.

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Hey I can remember when cows were new big thing in minecraft. A good example is the very basic minecraft food system. By about day three you have chests of food, full fields and you don't give a hoot who loots that field as long as they replant and your chests are safe. However if your a food fanatic you down load Pam's Harvest craft and Spice of life mod food becomes way more interesting.  Spice of life makes food much harder, you can't eat the same thing three times and Pam's makes a huge variety of crops, trees and meals.

 

We would not want farm simulator 2316 but if modding is possible we could get it.

Not sure how modding could work on a single shard game. Though I could see one way using a set of default mod blocks, elements and materials, and a messaging system that up dates it client side if you have the mod installed. Not everyone would see the same thing though.  If possible a big sign; "Warning modded system", would be needed.

Explain modding in an MMORPG :V You willl force people to download your mod?

 

 

I don't believe food will be a thing, aside from an power system for the player's body and stuff We won't be getting farm simulator 12000 AD :P

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To me it basically boils down to this, the player should not be incentivized to log off. If a player feels they cannot sit around just chatting with their friends ingame, without interacting with the game in any other way, because doing so actually punishes them that would, in my opinion, be VERY bad for the game. The easy solution to this is making the food requirement low enough to be trivial, but then why have it in the first place.

 

As for the idea of having the player consume food even when they are logged off, that just punishes people who have to be away from the game for extended periods of time, which in my experience from games like this is going to be punishing enough anyway.

 

That being said food is a reasonably good way of going about an upkeep mechanic, making sure people need to bring supplies to support any effort they are undertaking. I think there are better ways to go about it though, that feels less punishing for the individual player. For example fuel, life support, ammo and many many more things and I expect there will be multiple such things in the game.

 

That said I am not against food as a thing, if for example we have npcs in the game I can see food being part of their upkeep mechanic, and I would love for agriculture and forestry to be in the game just like I want mining to be in the game. I'm just againt using it as a survival mechanic.

 

I think you have some key points here. 

 

If the need for food / water were low enough, then it shouldn't be a great sacrifice to every few hours have your character stop and grab a ration or meal to refuel. Meanwhile the player can get up and take a bio-break and get some food or something themselves. The in-game mechanic wouldn't take more than a minute or two, if even a minute. If they allow the hunger to build, the character starts moving slower and becomes less effective in their skill and combat use. But by every few hours, I mean something like four-to-six hours.

 

This would be minimally invasive to players who want to log on and chat with their friends without actually doing anything else in the game and minimally invasive to people who have to be away from the game for a long period. But to this last statement, it depends on how the devs want to deal with off-line time and hunger mechanics.  IMO, it is best to simply suspend it while a player is off-line. Hunger / Thirst would be a measure of in-game time and not real-world time.

 

To make it more meaningful, tie the decay ratio to exertion so that the more a character does that requires movement and energy expenditure (or would in real life), the faster the decay. But we are still not talking about immediate death by starvation. It becomes a preset gradient of penalties regarding decreased movement, skill efficacy, fighting ability, etc based on in-game hours and each level would be based on the normal decay rate times the exertion decay rate. A character that experiences minimal exertion would be able to go say 48 in-game hours before passing out from hunger / thirst. The momentary passing out would be a final game warning mechanic to get food in the next couple of hours. Each "meal" would reduce the hunger / thirst level by one so if there were five levels, a player could spend up to five minutes game time having their avatar eat five meals to get back up to normal, though perhaps with some bloating. If the player has the character full-out active, then the numbers drop in half and the 4 - 6 hours become 2 - 3 because of the exertion (the exertion multiplier would be set so it could not more than double the normal decay metric) and the 48 hours becomes 24. But then again, these are in-game hours.

 

This also creates a meaningful economy for players who want a character participating in the agriculture / food processing / food trade mechanic chain.

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I wonder if wood can survive space travel, the we would have wood space ships going around. 

Be aware of termites though

(crunch, crunch)

Some space station components are carbon carbon which is as light and combustible as wood. So who knows. Carbon carbon makes good ablative reentry shielding because of its low heat conductivity; I suspect that that would be woods downfall, it has higher thermal conductivity. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I see so many opinion for food but like Captain Tworkmotor said potion is a good option and what I propose is not about needed food to live but food can add some specific bonus for a certain period of time. Ex: you create a soup and that make your strengt is up to 2 for  5 minutes. Then you create 2 more skill cooking and chemist for potion.

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  • 4 years later...

I love making things out of wood. All my furniture in the house is made of wood. I don't know why, but the smell of wood makes me crazy. My wife and I recently decided to install the best gazebo for high winds in our garden. In the past, if we wanted to feel the smell of nature, we would lay a blanket in the garden, which is not very convenient. Therefore, after much thought, we still decided to install a gazebo. The only problem that we have is which table to put there. We have disputes about this.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I made a suggestion quite a few months back which involved carbon still making wood, only it would be limited to fake looking wood, or simple designs. However, we would have the ability to plant trees on planets with appropriate soil and atmosphere and slowly grow trees which could be harvested. This slow to grow material would be in small quantities when compared to the easily obtained coal, thus it becomes a luxury good. It would have unique styles or be required to make "higher" tier furniture. At the same time one could simply want to show case how long their base or something has been around and plant some trees for the long term waiting a full 2-3 years for the tree to reach its maximum size (for logging efficiency 3-4 months or something would be most efficient then plant more)

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