Infantry Weapons

[Halo381]

So, on the Dual Universe Wiki, under the Weapon Units section is this:

 

 

 

Both individual weapons and deployable weapons are pre-defined game elements that have been developed by Novaquark. At the moment, character weapons are planned to be mesh-based, and defined by developers.

 

The three terms that stand out are "Individual Weapons", "Deployable Weapons", and "Character Weapons".

 

Assuming "Individual Weapons" refers to handheld weapons, what weapons would we see in the game? I'm certain that, for the purposes of boarding ships, an Assault Rifle would be added. For general self protection, a Pistol would be added. Maybe also a shaped charge, or plastic explosives? But beyond that, what do we all want to see added in this field? 

 

Personally, I'd like to see Missile Launchers get added in. Why? Because the most frustrating thing for a pilot is having an enemy ship sit above you and take potshots while you scramble around to find cover. It doesn't have to be extremely powerful or anything, just a weapon that shoots a basic, if not below-average tech missile. A ship deterrent, so to speak. 

 

Also, I'd like to see some type of melee weaponry (This bit is just me spouting things, I doubt these will actually make it into the game). In quite a few Sci-fi universes, melee weapons still exist despite the technological advances in killing one another from afar (blame Stormtroopers and their bad aim). While a simple Knife would suffice in this game most likely, I'd like to see something more, like maybe a Vibrosword (Star Wars KoTOR) or a Plasma Blade (not quite a lightsaber, but a sword with an edge that's charged with plasma). Maybe instead of a melee weapon, we'd get like a Shotgun for close quarters combat.

 

These are my thoughts. Feel free to tear them apart.

[Feffeboy]

I agree with you. I think we should have many weapons because I thing ground fighting will be an important part of the game. melee weapons sounds interesting and fun so I would like to have melee weapons in the game.

[Anaximander]

You do know Dual Universe is not a first person shooter, right?

[Anasasi]

I think the ability to have a turret that you can place would be nice, like the type you see in Arma where you can jump on the 50. CAL and start mowing people down. 

 

As far as weapon types, I hope there are a few variations in weapon types, i.e, ammo used, ranges and damages. But seeing you say AA is needed, I will agree, however that means that countermeasures will also have to placed into the game (Though, I'm sure they're already planned for Space faring missiles (point defense)). 

 

Missiles, Lasers, Projectiles, etc. There is just a whole range of possibility when it comes to what they could do. You could have Anti-air laser batteries that are hand held/portable. 
Railguns that tear through armour ignoring all shields. 
Missiles that do large volley damage.

 

Melee weapons sound cool too, though, how practical could they be? I guess if you're trying to be stealthy... 

 

The possibilities are endless!

 

Ground fighting/In-station fighting is going to be a big part of the game, because how else do you gain access to already claimed resources?  

 

[Anaximander]

@Anasasi

The point is the game is not a first person shooter. They could go the RPG route of melee combat and ranged combat, or go the way of TERA online, of "lock"on cone of fires". And if we go by logical standards, laser weaponry won't be as effective as PEW PEW star wars and star trek make them to look like. They will be VERY low on RPM or probably have a very long cooldown timer, sort of "reload timer". So, it could end up with mass driver technology, in essence, magnetic rifles. The real question here is, if armors will be customisable to accomodate the player's weapn of choice. If melee exists, if there willl be stealth-suits that make you go transparent, but limiting your speed or something If heavy weapons guys will have huge ass backpacks hat they could fill with grenades, magaines etcetera, or if they could switch it for a large battery for they pulse laser weapjnry. 

[Anasasi]

@Anasasi

The point is the game is not a first person shooter. They could go the RPG route of melee combat and ranged combat, or go the way of TERA online, of "lock"on cone of fires". And if we go by logical standards, laser weaponry won't be as effective as PEW PEW star wars and star trek make them to look like. They will be VERY low on RPM or probably have a very long cooldown timer, sort of "reload timer". So, it could end up with mass driver technology, in essence, magnetic rifles. The real question here is, if armors will be customisable to accomodate the player's weapn of choice. If melee exists, if there willl be stealth-suits that make you go transparent, but limiting your speed or something If heavy weapons guys will have huge ass backpacks hat they could fill with grenades, magaines etcetera, or if they could switch it for a large battery for they pulse laser weapjnry. 

I understand that the game is not an FPS as per Se, but the idea can be interpreted any way the developers want to, I just put it across in the wrong fashion.

But I tend to agree that projectile weaponry may be better regarded than lasers. Though, they'd still have some use, maybe.

[Anaximander]

@Anasasi


Sure lasers would have a certain use. Perhaps causing a faster equipment degradation on the enemy, rather than raw damage.

[Cornflakes]

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/sidearmenergy.php#id--Lasers

 

Nuff said

[Anaximander]

@Cornflakes


You DO need to say more. I didn't get your insinuation. ~_~ Laz0rs would still overheat, requiring a cooldown time. Plus, any crystals involed in focusing the beam would expand from continuous use, therefore you could think THAT as a limitation. Then there's the power needed.  Particle beams... hmmm, are you implying something about coilguns >_> ?!

[yamamushi]

Because of the Eve Online lock-on mechanics, I think we're more likely to see the type of combat that Perpetuum offers.

 

Which is not to say that the game is going to resemble Perpetuum, but that is the closest example of ground-based lock-on combat that I can think of.

 

Then again I may just be getting confused because Perpetuum is often compared to Eve Online because of its time-based skill mechanics so I'm probably very wrong. 

[Cornflakes]

@Cornflakes

 

 

You DO need to say more. I didn't get your insinuation. ~_~ Laz0rs would still overheat, requiring a cooldown time. Plus, any crystals involed in focusing the beam would expand from continuous use, therefore you could think THAT as a limitation. Then there's the power needed.  Particle beams... hmmm, are you implying something about coilguns >_> ?!

 

obnoxious font, wrongly written LASER. im close to start to dislike you :V

 

and any expansion would be thermal, its all thermally limited.

 

and all im saying is that hand held laser weaponry isnt exactly "faster equipment degradation" only.

from the calculations there a "light" pulsed laser weapon would be able to penetrate about 2.5cm of steel or 30 cm of flesh.

thats not exactly harmless.

 

and faaar away from the energy budget one has when he casually carries around antigravity generators and space compression devices as we do according to the Dual Space lore.

in addition to that casual availablility of the required energies due to the casual nature of the power source it seems that the heat problem would also be pretty secondary.

[Halo381]

You do know Dual Universe is not a first person shooter, right?

I am aware

I am also aware that someone is gonna board your ships and you're gonna wish you had something to shoot at them with.

[Halo381]

obnoxious font, wrongly written LASER. im close to start to dislike you :V

 

Totally irrelevant to the topic, wasn't called for. I'd rather this topic not be just some hate thread for two people to argue on, I want proper feedback and intuitive ideas.

 

 

 

 

and any expansion would be thermal, its all thermally limited

Once a crystal expands to a certain point, the laser would no longer be focused. Eventually, it'll expand to the point of breaking. And yes, it expands because of thermal energy. There's enough thermal energy in a laser to burn right through most crystals, and that's just with today's technology.

 

 

and all im saying is that hand held laser weaponry isnt exactly "faster equipment degradation" only.

from the calculations there a "light" pulsed laser weapon would be able to penetrate about 2.5cm of steel or 30 cm of flesh.

thats not exactly harmless

Agreed, lasers can indeed kill. 

 

 

and faaar away from the energy budget one has when he casually carries around antigravity generators and space compression devices as we do according to the Dual Space lore.

in addition to that casual availablility of the required energies due to the casual nature of the power source it seems that the heat problem would also be pretty secondary.

Mixed review on this one. I wouldn't recommend trying to maintain a laser beam while you're running other things on the same power grid, to weaponize one would take a rather considerable amount of energy for one person to produce. Also, I don't think suit energy would naturally renew itself, unless you've got solar panels on your shoulders. It'd be sort of like space engineers, where if you run out of energy in space, you're royally screwed. On the topic of heat, however, in the vacuum of space, I don't believe excess heat will be a problem. Possibly within the atmosphere of a planet, but in space it's quite freezing, so you could operate a laser for longer periods.

[Cornflakes]

@halo381

 

there are no materials known to me that have thermal expansion coefficients large enough to matter at a few cm sizes and in temperature ranges where the materials dont melt.

glass for example expands by 1.7mm for a 10cm lens when you heat it by 2000 degrees celsius.

which is the melting point for quartz glass.

it'd be soft, malleable and useless long before that.

 

true, it'd be less effective at focusing with a fixed array, but with known thermal expansion coefficients and known temperature you can do a lot with a dynamic focusing array.

which you'd already need for maximum effectivity for a weaponised laser.

as you have to focus it always to the correct distance anyway.

 

 

 

and i have no idea how much power you need to power a magic antigravity space compressing rock cutter, but considering that you throw around literal tons of rock... you need waaaaaaaay more power and energy than solar panels which fit casually over your shoulders can supply.

theoretically available solar power on earth is ~1kW/m².

using my ebook reader (tolino shine) as rough measure of how large a solar panel on my shoulder could be (175x116mm) you could get roughly 40 watts total for solar panels on your shoulders.

thats way below anything throwing arounds tons of rock would need.

so solar power is out of the game for the nanoformer under any circumstances.

and that thing can probably be comfortably powered by your suit for a while at least.

 

and dont make me talk about what acceerating and decelerating the tons of rock in the kadpacks would take in terms of power when you casually walk in circles.

 

just from basic kinetic energy thinking laser weaponry is comfortably within the range of the suits power supply.

 

 

space is a horrible cooling medium, in an atmosphere / on a planet you can shed heat by conduction and convection in space you only have the really slow radiative way open, which needs large vulnerable radiator panels

for example the ISS has 156m² of radiator area (which cant be folded up in any way) for 70kw radiation rate 

whereas the cooler pictured on this page (i took the numbers from the smallest 2 fan unit) can shed more than three times of that with a really really inefficient 35°C "hot" water input

http://pdf.directindustry.com/pdf/frigomeccanica-industriale-spa/torri/72786-409229.html#open

 

theres a reason why thermos flasks are "filled" with vacuum between their inner and outer walls

 

tldr: cooling in space is hard.

 

linky to read on that 

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/basicdesign.php#id--Heat_Radiators

[KingofPR]

Guys this is a game we dont need to get scientific about it

[Cornflakes]

Guys this is a game we dont need to get scientific about it

 

i didnt start it, i just rolled with it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Halo381]

@halo381

 

there are no materials known to me that have thermal expansion coefficients large enough to matter at a few cm sizes and in temperature ranges where the materials dont melt.

glass for example expands by 1.7mm for a 10cm lens when you heat it by 2000 degrees celsius.

which is the melting point for quartz glass.

it'd be soft, malleable and useless long before that.

 

true, it'd be less effective at focusing with a fixed array, but with known thermal expansion coefficients and known temperature you can do a lot with a dynamic focusing array.

which you'd already need for maximum effectivity for a weaponised laser.

as you have to focus it always to the correct distance anyway.

 

 

 

and i have no idea how much power you need to power a magic antigravity space compressing rock cutter, but considering that you throw around literal tons of rock... you need waaaaaaaay more power and energy than solar panels which fit casually over your shoulders can supply.

theoretically available solar power on earth is ~1kW/m².

using my ebook reader (tolino shine) as rough measure of how large a solar panel on my shoulder could be (175x116mm) you could get roughly 40 watts total for solar panels on your shoulders.

thats way below anything throwing arounds tons of rock would need.

so solar power is out of the game for the nanoformer under any circumstances.

and that thing can probably be comfortably powered by your suit for a while at least.

 

and dont make me talk about what acceerating and decelerating the tons of rock in the kadpacks would take in terms of power when you casually walk in circles.

 

just from basic kinetic energy thinking laser weaponry is comfortably within the range of the suits power supply.

 

 

space is a horrible cooling medium, in an atmosphere / on a planet you can shed heat by conduction and convection in space you only have the really slow radiative way open, which needs large vulnerable radiator panels

for example the ISS has 156m² of radiator area (which cant be folded up in any way) for 70kw radiation rate 

whereas the cooler pictured on this page (i took the numbers from the smallest 2 fan unit) can shed more than three times of that with a really really inefficient 35°C "hot" water input

http://pdf.directindustry.com/pdf/frigomeccanica-industriale-spa/torri/72786-409229.html#open

 

theres a reason why thermos flasks are "filled" with vacuum between their inner and outer walls

 

tldr: cooling in space is hard.

 

linky to read on that 

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/basicdesign.php#id--Heat_Radiators

 

Well, someone has done their homework. Thanks for clarifying all that, truly.

 

Getting away from laser weapons, what do you guys anticipate in the explosives department?

[Anaximander]

@Halo381


Nukes. Portable nukes.

[Kuritho]

I'd love to the ability to change a gun (caliber, sights, looks, ect) by manufacturing it as is and THEN modify it, or just make it modded on manufacturing.

[Cornflakes]

@halo381

i spent waaay to much time reading up on such things. lol

 

 

i dont expect too much in the explosives department on foot tbh...

 

but it would be really nice to have "adaptive" charges which you can program with specific explosion cones for different effects.

 

a basic "blast everything" sphere.

 

a more specific "frak this area in particular" claymore-like tunnel/door/hallway denial mine

 

a pretty closely defined cutting charge to cut through structural girders and similar 

(cutting charges)

 

and a very fine line (ideally with 1 block diameter) "i need a hole exactly there" charge.

(like HEAT warheads)

 

 

maybe reprogrammable on the fly (for enter commandos) or defined at design/build time.

 

if we go really fancy LUA programmable with multiple possible cones per explosion

(would be more of a bomb pumped laser warhead, lol)

[Velenka]

The nanoformer is a piece of very advance technology already attached to your arm. Perhaps it could be weaponized. I can already see it being used to hurl pebbles at supersonic speeds. As to explosives, perhaps we will have access to a common unstable mineral which could be used for advanced construction or.... blowing your way into bases.

[GalloInfligo]

 

 

Nukes. Portable nukes.

I second this, and would also love to see neutron bombs for taking over bases with player defenses. It would also be nice to have antimatter bombs.

I would love to have all of these as grenade launcher style weapons.

[Anaximander]

I second this, and would also love to see neutron bombs for taking over bases with player defenses. It would also be nice to have antimatter bombs.

I would love to have all of these as grenade launcher style weapons.

Anti-matter bombs? Sir, you are forgeting about the principle of escalation of force. Anti-matter anything is like... 11 out of 10 on the scale >_>

 

But I totally agree on neutron bombs. Or perhaps a break-down into Damage, Utility and Suppression.

 

 

Nukes = Damage (duh )

EMP = Utility for obvious reasons

NEutron Bombs = Suppression. Clouding them radars and automatic Ack-Ack via radiation inteferrence in the atmosphere.

 

 

But let's not have a Davy Crockett One too many people are trigger happy with a rifle, let's keep nukes off trollish hands

[Cornflakes]

You can theoretically scale antimatter warheads from firecracker to planetcracker, though.

 

nothing fundamental prevents you from making AM hand grenades.

[GalloInfligo]

Right, i just wnt any of them scaled to say..... Wipe out a small village