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Multiboxing support?


yamamushi

Multibox Support  

50 members have voted

  1. 1. Allow for multiboxing?

    • Yes
      15
    • No
      35


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@NEopolitan


A internet site will be probably made to keep track of prices across the server. If push comes to shove, make an alt on a market area. Multiboxing is an excuse for people to ruin you with their wallets.

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To be fair, Eve Online is the only game I've ever multiboxed in, and it was only ever to mine on more than one account or to have an alt to check prices in Jita with.

...

Personally, I think it should be allowed, as there are certainly going to be times where I'm just waiting around on one account (hauling cargo through space, etc.) and I'm going to want to be playing on another account where things are more active.

 

If I remember correctly, it was said somewhere that we'll be allowed to have multiple characters but only one progressing in skills at a time, or something of that nature, which to me suggests we'll be able play them in the same time, or otherwise how would we create situations where multiple characters are doing things to increase their skills to begin with? Aren't the skills use-based rather then time-based?

 

No to multiboxing. Multiboxing indicates a failed game design, not a sign of an advanced player.

 

IMHO, when a game requires/forces you to have multiple accounts just so you can specialize in a given field, then the game design has failed. I should be able to do anything I wish in a sandbox, not locked down to a given specialization due to game limitations.

 

Just the fact that you need an alt in Jita just for trading, and a main to play somewhere else, is a failed market system, even tho EVE has the best market system that I have seen/played in.

 

EVE also have failed on their time based skill training since it forces you to have multiple accounts because their advanced training will lock you for 6+ months and you cannot advanced your char in any way. That is how they lock you into that monthly sub payment.

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Apart from a multiple negative statements you still fail to provide a valid argument, and then you get a personal card out "you are so bad at gameing" - how constructive.

 

p.s. I have never ever said anything about being "fair"  - it's and MMO you do not have to  fight 1 vs 1

 

I gave several logical reasons why multiboxing should not be allowed. Don't answer in a topic if you dont read the comments, which you obviously didn't if you claim that there are no valid arguments.

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I gave several logical reasons why multiboxing should not be allowed. Don't answer in a topic if you dont read the comments, which you obviously didn't if you claim that there are no valid arguments.

 

nope you went on a personal attack thats all you and your fan boys did! chears.

 

Multiboxing will prevail !! ;)

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nope you went on a personal attack thats all you and your fan boys did! chears.

 

Multiboxing will prevail !! ;)

 

do you think just because you lie about something it will become the truth? ridiculous.

 

You seem to fail to see the contradiction of feeling insulted when someone questions your gaming skill but still insisting that using 5 accounts against 1 account wouldn't be a definite advantage for the multiboxer, thats quite worrisome.

 

Its a bit like being insulted if someone calls you gay and at the same time saying that in your opinion gay people are the same as everyone else, pure hypocrisy.

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Hello guys,

i have to say something about unfair advantage in single vs multiboxing player. I´m playing EVE online roughly 2 years, now regularly, some months ago i´ve play a lot. I was in two situation as single against multiboxer.

 

Once I was attacked by dualboxer when making some money in game in cheap basic battlecruiser, he had scout in basic expensive ship and attacking in bomber in advanced expensive ship. The fact is, that both were smaller than mine, but prepared for hunt, but mine was fitted for dumb npc with litle hope, that someone from my corporation will eventualy help me. At first point, it looks that I´m dead, and I´m sure, that if he push me a litle bit more he got me, but he didn´t. He hold me, I can´t warp out. I hold his bomber, he can´t warp him out. I´ve got damage from npc, bomber and his scout, slowly dying. I have to overhead nearly everything and finaly he decide it´s too risky to finish me, so only thing he could do, was warp out his scout and let his bomber die.

 

And the second time, again making money, but in expensive advanced cruiser. I was attacked by multiboxer, he had same class cruiser and three basic battleships. This time I know that he will attack me, because I´ve seen his cruiser on scan, so I alarm my corp mates and backup fleet was assembled and waiting for my call. From that moment i was baiting. He take it and attacked me, catch me and I catched his cruiser, then his battleships arrive, fleet start rescue/attack mission. My cruiser and one same class of my corp mate were destroied, but even multiboxers cruiser and two battleships were destroied, in his blog he was also saying, that he was for short time attacking his own ship. The losses were nearly equal on both sides, but he was doing this for some time and newer lost his ships, but this time he didn´t listen his own precautions and we were the first players who cuts his lossless path.

 

The conclusion from my point of view? Multiboxing in PvP could give you some advantages, but at cost of splitting your attention between more characters, even when you will be playing on several screens. Perhaps only women could fully utilize this advantage :D  And last point about multiboxing in PvP. When PvP time come in our corporation, the dualboxing (multiboxing isn´t even proposed) is practicaly prohibited, only when it is only one solution (few people for some fleet roles, enemy is much more stronger and we need couple more ships - honestly, in this case, we usually hide :D or doing deag bug or close the connection as fast as possible; I hope our diplomat isn´t reading this :D ), because we know that people had to focus only on one thing, to do that thing well. I have created second account in EVE 2 months ago, but I would never use them both in PvP, because I rather focus only on one thing and do it well.

 

I hope my english isn´t full of gramar garbage, but i thing the multiboxing is little bit overestimate, yes probably immersion breaking, because you couldn´t fully personalize with character, BUT immersion problem isn´t your problem, but problem of multiboxing player. From my experience, when multiboxer attacks you, at first moment you even can´t tell if it´s multiboxer or gank of players, only afterwards from another source or from behavior when he is loosing battle. And would some of you feel better or worse when you realize that the last lost or won gank, good lost or won battle or lost or won fucking bloodbath was againts couple of players or one or few multiboxers? If you do, ok, but actual feeling when the fight is ongoing and you only think to do the best cannot be changed. Multiboxing, aka pay-to-win from others point of view, probably isn´t very fair, but it actualy could make feel game more full of life and populated. Again in EVE, joke about good estimation of how many players is actualy playing, just divide online players by two :D

 

Thats all I want to say about multiboxing :)

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 so I alarm my corp mates and backup fleet was assembled and waiting for my call. From that moment i was baiting. He take it and attacked me, catch me and I catched his cruiser, then his battleships arrive, fleet start rescue/attack mission. My cruiser and one same class of my corp mate were destroied, but even multiboxers cruiser and two battleships were destroied,

 

So in the end a single player managed to destroy the ships of 2 players while fighting against your corps and in his nummerous previous attacks versus single players he never lost anything. Thanks for reinforcing my point about multiboxing in pvp :)

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do you think just because you lie about something it will become the truth? ridiculous.

 

You seem to fail to see the contradiction of feeling insulted when someone questions your gaming skill but still insisting that using 5 accounts against 1 account wouldn't be a definite advantage for the multiboxer, thats quite worrisome.

 

Its a bit like being insulted if someone calls you gay and at the same time saying that in your opinion gay people are the same as everyone else, pure hypocrisy.

I'm realy ammused to watch how much lower can you go :) one more try?

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I'm realy ammused to watch how much lower can you go :) one more try?

 

Sure, how does it feel to lack any proper arguments, trying to "win" the discussion by assuming the role of the poor victim? :P

Hypocrisy is an insult for you too? Then change your behavior. 

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So in the end a single player managed to destroy the ships of 2 players while fighting against your corps and in his nummerous previous attacks versus single players he never lost anything. Thanks for reinforcing my point about multiboxing in pvp :)

ok, i have to clarified this a little bit, I died, because I staied where I was, I knew he is comming for me and I probably wouldn´t survive, but we want fight so i sacrificed my self, my friend died because he warp in too early only to hold enemy ship in place and our logistic ships can´t rescue him, thats how it works in our part of EVE and he never lost, because he choses his target carefully to minimize possibility of lost, because he knew that what he is doing is hard, that day was just his bad day

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ok, i have to clarified this a little bit, I died, because I staied where I was, I knew he is comming for me and I probably wouldn´t survive, but we want fight so i sacrificed my self, my friend died because he warp in too early only to hold enemy ship in place and our logistic ships can´t rescue him, thats how it works in our part of EVE and he never lost, because he choses his target carefully to minimize possibility of lost, because he knew that what he is doing is hard, that day was just his bad day

 

yes, but that doesnt change the fact, that he was able to inflict the damage and went "unpunished" against all those other ships he attacked. He wouldn't have been able to do that if he didn't multibox. And while your corps was able to kill some of his ships, all the other guys before you didn't, they probably weren't amused by that.

 

If he had archieved this by having a superior spaceship, or because he has a group of ingame friends with whom he raids other people, that would be completely ok.

But every other player would have this possibility too, they could upgrade their ships or get into a group. There is nothing that they couldn't also do.

 

Multiboxing on the other hand gives you capabilities that others can't gain ingame be it because they dont have the money for more accounts or for a better computer. Thats without a doubt p2w and should never be part of a game where warfare is an integral part of the gameplay.

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yes, but that doesnt change the fact, that he was able to inflict the damage and went "unpunished" against all those other ships he attacked. He wouldn't have been able to do that if he didn't multibox. And while your corps was able to kill some of his ships, all the other guys before you didn't, they probably weren't amused by that.

 

If he had archieved this by having a superior spaceship, or because he has a group of ingame friends with whom he raids other people, that would be completely ok.

But every other player would have this possibility too, they could upgrade their ships or get into a group. There is nothing that they couldn't also do.

 

Multiboxing on the other hand gives you capabilities that others can't gain ingame be it because they dont have the money for more accounts or for a better computer. Thats without a doubt p2w and should never be part of a game where warfare is an integral part of the gameplay.

 

yes he went unpunished, because he choose targets easy to destroy, not because he was managing four accounts at one time, the only diference is, that he could himself attack bigger prey. Other people can also get in group, actualy now I´m part of 20 men fleet and counting up, preparing for bigger PvP and noone is multiboxing, because it´s inefficient. Point about not being able to multiboxing because of money (p2w) or less powerfull computer (also another form of p2w) is right, but only if you cold multibox equaly efficient with 1, 2, 5 or even 10 accounts, but you couldn´t, we are just human, two people with with one account each will be always better then one man with two accounts. Will it be unfair? In this case it will be even worse for multiboxer, because he is risking twice as each of those players. But in case of one single account player vs one dualbox (multibox) player, it will be unfair, but what about one player vs two players? That will be unfair too? Yes it will, but it´s ok, because they are two players against one? The difference is, that one player is paying two accounts vs two players are paying one acc each. But that one player can´t manage both acc equaly effective where on other hand those two players could, so this is the reason why I think, that multiboxing isn´t so big problem. Now I feel a little tangled, so I hope it makes sense :D

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A tremendous benefit hidden behind a paywall is Pay-2-Win. No matter how you twist it, it's Pay-2-Win. If ten people form an alliance/group/guild/what-have-you, and they all have a 5 multibox crew, immediately they can steam-roll over anyone. They can snap-focus in combat by the stroke of a key and throw tactics and skill out the window.

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yes he went unpunished, because he choose targets easy to destroy, not because he was managing four accounts at one time, the only diference is, that he could himself attack bigger prey. Other people can also get in group, actualy now I´m part of 20 men fleet and counting up, preparing for bigger PvP and noone is multiboxing, because it´s inefficient. Point about not being able to multiboxing because of money (p2w) or less powerfull computer (also another form of p2w) is right, but only if you cold multibox equaly efficient with 1, 2, 5 or even 10 accounts, but you couldn´t, we are just human, two people with with one account each will be always better then one man with two accounts. Will it be unfair? In this case it will be even worse for multiboxer, because he is risking twice as each of those players. But in case of one single account player vs one dualbox (multibox) player, it will be unfair, but what about one player vs two players? That will be unfair too? Yes it will, but it´s ok, because they are two players against one? The difference is, that one player is paying two accounts vs two players are paying one acc each. But that one player can´t manage both acc equaly effective where on other hand those two players could, so this is the reason why I think, that multiboxing isn´t so big problem. Now I feel a little tangled, so I hope it makes sense :D

 

you didn't quite get what i said, its not important if you can join groups and go around killing people, because everyone can do so, even if you had a 100 vs 1 its ok because the one person also has the option to look for 99 other people ingame. Its not unfair, its just a difference in the playstyle.

 

If players can get something by paying money which other players can't archieve ingame, and if that thing gives them advantages, be it in economy or pvp then thats something that shouldn't be supported. you always talk about how players who don't multibox have an advantage if they have the same amount of ships, but that in itself is a problem, because you yourself say it needs more than one player to beat the one opponent, even if the time played is equal.

 

Let me try to ignore the direct pvp part and make an example concerning the economy.

At the start of the game, everyone is equal. Some people start mining, some start research, some explore. Then there is one who has 6 accounts and does everything twice as fast. The gain per account is equal, but the multiboxer will pool all ressources, research etc. into his main account, while its very unlikely, that you will find 5 other people who would give up all their work just for you.

After a month or maybe two months the multiboxer will have an extreme lead in research and production capabilities and able to dominate the "early game" while it would need a group of people to stop him. Everyone else who hasn't found a group will be powerless. 

And all that just because he spent more money for gaming than the other players. Thats just unacceptable.

 

And no, the argument that you could join a guild and pool the ressources together doesnt count, because to have a comparison you would have to set them up against a guild of multi boxers with the same amount of real players.

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Multiboxing makes people not enjoy the game how is supposed to be. It's not fun nor part of the gameplay, it's just an "exploit" players come up to be more effective.

Multiboxing gives unfair advantages, such as position, gold, versatility.

Should multiboxing be easily available to everyone? No because it would force other people to do it to be competitive, they'd not have fun, they'd quit the game. Remember that the in game economy is run by players, so in a situation where many players have a huge income (thanks to multiboxing), that could impact the economy, and relatively to their richness, the ones who don't multibox, will feel relatively poorer (i.e. many blocks/items are going to cost more in that case)

 

So in my opinion, multiboxing should not be possible on a single account. Ofc you could still be able to pay multiple subs, and own multiple account, since it's not an easy thing to track, but at least this would impact much more on the game.

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The idea of in-game programming replacing the need for multiboxing will likely conflict with the RPG aspects of the game. Either they provide us with things you need a skilled character to do, or character skills become irrelevant since an LUA bot can do them for you.

...And if they provide us with things you need a skilled character to do, then those things become an advantage to multiboxing & macroing skilled characters over using in-game scripted LUA bots.

 

Still, arguing against multiboxing is a mute point, unless you think putting it in the EULA is going to stop it. I am going to work in a couple of hours in an office where I have 6 computers around me connected to 4 different networks. Let's pretend for a moment I wasn't a workaholic, what's to stop me from minimizing all their tasks and running DU on all of them while paying from one credit card and 5 different paypal accounts? 

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pretty sure about the only thing the devs could really do is set the client so only the maximized and focused client could receive control input. this would make combat an untenable workload just to work two clients as you have to actually alt tab between them.

 

aside from that is there really any sort of way to not support multi boxing? its not like any of the games people do it in actually wrote a single line of code to support it in the first place.

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you didn't quite get what i said, its not important if you can join groups and go around killing people, because everyone can do so, even if you had a 100 vs 1 its ok because the one person also has the option to look for 99 other people ingame. Its not unfair, its just a difference in the playstyle.

 

If players can get something by paying money which other players can't archieve ingame, and if that thing gives them advantages, be it in economy or pvp then thats something that shouldn't be supported. you always talk about how players who don't multibox have an advantage if they have the same amount of ships, but that in itself is a problem, because you yourself say it needs more than one player to beat the one opponent, even if the time played is equal.

 

Let me try to ignore the direct pvp part and make an example concerning the economy.

At the start of the game, everyone is equal. Some people start mining, some start research, some explore. Then there is one who has 6 accounts and does everything twice as fast. The gain per account is equal, but the multiboxer will pool all ressources, research etc. into his main account, while its very unlikely, that you will find 5 other people who would give up all their work just for you.

After a month or maybe two months the multiboxer will have an extreme lead in research and production capabilities and able to dominate the "early game" while it would need a group of people to stop him. Everyone else who hasn't found a group will be powerless. 

And all that just because he spent more money for gaming than the other players. Thats just unacceptable.

 

And no, the argument that you could join a guild and pool the ressources together doesnt count, because to have a comparison you would have to set them up against a guild of multi boxers with the same amount of real players.

 

That economy point is good and with mention of start of the game is very good, I like it, can´t tell anything against that. So no multiboxing, but the whole history of game, or at begining (few months) or before game enviroment wil stabilize and then set it green? I know it will be probably strange, but why not (this is only for that economy point)?

 

About that need of more players against one to have chance if that one is multiboxing, that doesn´t have to be always true, even one singleboxing player could have chance and become unwelcome surprise against more players, more ships doesn´t always mean more power even equaly sized.

 

But what was said about economy is point against multiboxing, at least from the begining of game

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Still, arguing against multiboxing is a mute point, unless you think putting it in the EULA is going to stop it. I am going to work in a couple of hours in an office where I have 6 computers around me connected to 4 different networks. Let's pretend for a moment I wasn't a workaholic, what's to stop me from minimizing all their tasks and running DU on all of them while paying from one credit card and 5 different paypal accounts? 

 

Nothing, other then your physical ability to type on those 6 different keyboards vs someone flipping keyboards with a press of a function key. I do not know of a game outlawing anyone playing on 2 different machines, but I do know plenty of EULAs that outlaws multiple instances of a game on the same CPU, or keystroke broadcasting.

 

The example we used in this case, EVE, is a "slow" reaction time PvP, where often you have multi-seconds to react, instead of mill-seconds. When combat is properly done where you barely have time to react, you just physically cannot multi-box.

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The example we used in this case, EVE, is a "slow" reaction time PvP, where often you have multi-seconds to react, instead of mill-seconds. 

 

And so is DU. They have already told us they are sacrificing FPS controls on the alter of single shard, and there would be no point in doing so if whatever system they kept still needed as many data packages and processing power as an FPS.

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@Traceur 


EVE is also a 13-years-old game. It was made in a different era, of uber 250 MB RAM PCs (never forget).

DU can still tune for a more "cone of fire" mechanism, instead of an RNG system of flat-chances. I doesn't have to be 100% like EVE, or WoW, or any game like that. To be honest, I am more curious of ground-combat. I dig ground combat more.

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And so is DU. They have already told us they are sacrificing FPS controls on the alter of single shard, and there would be no point in doing so if whatever system they kept still needed as many data packages and processing power as an FPS.

 

Being new here and haven't done much reading about this game, I need to read the Devblogs. My thinking here is because this is going to be a FPS view game with dog-fight combat, anyone asking for multi-box (at least during PvP combat) can pretty much kiss that idea good bye anyway.

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@AttacKat

Well, yeah, because larger fregates and battleships will be multi-crew, meaning you'll need more than one people to operate them efficiently. So yeah, come to think of it...


HEY SLEDGEHAMMER

kiss your pay-2-win goodbye.
 

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When the time comes, if we're allowed to have more than one account, I most certainly will be running two accounts. My main from my desktop, and my alt on my laptop. My alt will mostly just be there to sit at the helm of a ship diving into deep space for hours on end, and my main will be where I do most of my actual hands-on gaming from. 

 

The general impression I'm getting here is that I'm probably going to be seen as a bad guy for wanting to support NovaQuark with two paid subscriptions, regardless of what I will be using the second account for. 

 

 

 

Should NovaQuark go out of their way to not accept more money from their players?

 

If someone wants to pay for 5 or 10 accounts, why should NovaQuark tell them, "no we do not want 5-10x more money than we would have gotten out of you for just one account"? NovaQuark is a business, they have employees to pay and servers to keep running, I really doubt they're going to take the approach of "we can't allow people to give us more money, we need to prevent them from ever buying more than one copy of the game".

 

There's not even really a way to prevent people from multiboxing completely. Even going so far as to disallow multiple connections from one IP wouldn't make a lot of sense in an age where anyone can get a VPN connect with very little effort. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No to multiboxing. Multiboxing indicates a failed game design, not a sign of an advanced player.

 

IMHO, when a game requires/forces you to have multiple accounts just so you can specialize in a given field, then the game design has failed. I should be able to do anything I wish in a sandbox, not locked down to a given specialization due to game limitations.

 

 

Just the fact that you need an alt in Jita just for trading, and a main to play somewhere else, is a failed market system, even tho EVE has the best market system that I have seen/played in.

 

EVE also have failed on their time based skill training since it forces you to have multiple accounts because their advanced training will lock you for 6+ months and you cannot advanced your char in any way. That is how they lock you into that monthly sub payment.

 

You know that the vast majority of people who multibox do it for more reasons than just "bad game design" right? I would argue that people who multibox do it because they want to play a game in a different way than it was originally intended. Unless you're suggesting that almost every MMO to come out in the past 17 years was designed poorly. 

 

AWOX'ers in Eve are certainly some of the more advanced players in the game, and the only way many of them are even able to operate is through multiboxing. I suggest you look into what AWOX'ing is before dismissing its existence as "bad game design", because it has led to some of the most interesting and compelling stories to ever come out of Eve Online. 

 

Part of the reason the market system even works for trading in Eve is because you can't just see the prices for the entire galaxy from your seat in a station. You do have to communicate or travel to find the best prices on things. 

 

As far as "needing" an Alt, there is more reason than just being too lazy to fly for an hour into Jita to get prices. Jita is camped 24/7 by people looking to get an easy shot off on someone they are war decced against. If I flew my alt into Jita, being part of TEST or GoonSwarm, I would never be able to safely undock without being blown to bits. The vast majority of players will never have a desire for an alt in Eve. 

 

Your second point seems to be more a complaint about having to subscribe to play Eve Online. The Time based skill leveling is a big part of the balance in the game, and is one of the key points that keeps it from becoming a Pay2Win game. Even with being able to buy SP off the market now, Eve's leveling system is very well tuned at keeping people from being able to buy their way into the most powerful ships overnight. 

 

Eve wouldn't be around 13 years later with the same skill mechanics if it was a "failure". 

 

To suggest that the game design is bad because you have to specialize in something is akin to suggesting that you should just be given the ability to do everything without any work. This isn't going to be Minecraft. If everyone in the game could be perfect at everything, then there wouldn't be any need for having to interact with other players. Specialization is one of the most important parts of an economy, even in real life. 

 

Nobody is suggesting that DU require or force people to use multiple accounts. I'm suggesting that if someone wants to play with more than one account at the same time on different computers, there shouldn't be artificial restrictions in place preventing them from doing that. 

 

 

 

 


Multiboxing in pvp is an easy target? sure if there are enough players, but if we consider a 1 player vs 1 player situation where one of those multiboxes and uses 5 spaceships, the outcome is pretty clear, obviously a case of unfair advantage. And no, it is not ridiculous to have to travel between markets, because thats where interaction with pirates etc. comes into play.

 

I do not understand how anyone could think that multiboxing is not an unfair and quite big advantage, thats ridiculous.

 

What is the difference from me hopping on Teamspeak and asking someone what the prices are in a different market to avoid having to travel across space? 

 

The suggestion that players should only ever be allowed to use ingame tools to communicate, or interact with each other, is an unrealistic expectation in any game. 

 

 

 


Multi boxing is not pay 2 win xD lol. Multiboxing in pvp is lame and makes aeasy target for non multiboxers thats for shure tahts why few people do that. But to have to log different character to say check a market on one side of the universe and then another istead of haveing them loged at the same time is riduculous.

I do not understand why are there so many ppl trying to impose all sorts of limits sugesting ridiculous ideas.

 

I agree completely, it doesn't make sense to try to impose artificial restrictions using ingame mechanics that are going to be trivial to overcome using out of game communication tools. 

 

I really doubt NQ is going to disallow people from using TeamSpeak, Skype, Discord, Mumble, Ventrillo, etc. to communicate. 

 

 

 

Nothing, other then your physical ability to type on those 6 different keyboards vs someone flipping keyboards with a press of a function key. I do not know of a game outlawing anyone playing on 2 different machines, but I do know plenty of EULAs that outlaws multiple instances of a game on the same CPU, or keystroke broadcasting.

 

 

EULA's don't "outlaw" anything because that's not how laws are made. EULA's are just contracts between licensors and purchasers. 

 

 

Being new here and haven't done much reading about this game, I need to read the Devblogs. My thinking here is because this is going to be a FPS view game with dog-fight combat, anyone asking for multi-box (at least during PvP combat) can pretty much kiss that idea good bye anyway.

 

 

You definitely need to read up on the devblogs. They've already stated there won't be dogfight combat, and instead the game will use an Eve Online type targeting system.

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