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Multiple Playable Races / Civilizations / Raid Worlds


slickz

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I think this is a great game to add;

  • A multiple planetary starting location system with multiple playable races. AKA each race gets their own planet to start on. Learn the game and continue on to space travel and dungeon raiding on Raid worlds or Evolutionary type planets. Starting planets have basic and some unique quests to help get the play ready for the world that awaits ahead. All factions stay neutral to each other. Unless war comes.... (1 team)
  • Randomized Raiding Structures similar to Diablo 3 Torrments, Where worlds can be Raider+4 ( Reqs XXXX gear score)
  • Some raids on worlds are 10 man, some 20, 30, 40, or even unlimited.
  • Let players write story lines & design gear on owned worlds, Maybe even with designed mini bossfights.
  • PvP Worlds with small and large ever
  • A lot of random generated process to created scaled city raid structures with mob spawns all over random worlds that need to be destroyed for $$ and Materials (Regenerating farm worlds -> Kill for gold)

 

 

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most of what you said doesnt fit into dual universe:

Dungeonraids with limited team size means instanced dungeons, there wont be anything like this in DU

PvP worlds, be it small or large, are meaningless, as the whole universe will be a pvp zone

Gear-Score is useless.. because there are no instances, you can go everywhere from the beginning (as long as you dont die)

 

 

Multiple-playable races doesnt fit lore-wise, but maybe they'll include it in an addon, far far far in the future. 

As for regenerating farm worlds, i suppose the wildlife on the planets will respawn, but you certainly wont get money from the system for killing npc, because there is no system-money.

 

Free yourself from your casual mmorpg-experiences and embrace the all-embracing, unlimited sandboxness of dual universe :P

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Multiple-playable races doesnt fit lore-wise, but maybe they'll include it in an addon, far far far in the future. 

 

I am not so sure about that one, just because we are all from earth doesn't mean we are all humans, or that humans are still one species 500 years from now. Look at Orion's Arm Terragen clade list for example, there's plenty of differentiation that can be included within the premise.

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I am not so sure about that one, just because we are all from earth doesn't mean we are all humans, or that humans are still one species 500 years from now. Look at Orion's Arm Terragen clade list for example, there's plenty of differentiation that can be included within the premise.

 

sry, but no matter what you do, 500 years are nothing compared to the time a species neesd to evolve, you could argue, that they tried to engineer the perfect human to survive in the space and made different versions of it because they weren't sure how well it would work, but even that takes a long, long time for development and an even longer time to get a proper population base, so no, you can be pretty sure that the beings on the arkships are very similar to us now.

 

And it is even more unlikely, that we encounter aliens in the next 500 years which are participating in thausands year long cryo-sleep instead of just using their own spaceships or, if they're damaged, helping the humans to build a proper ftl engine. So i'd say no to aliens too.

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While I agree with the fact that the whole idea of planets generated with the specific idea of being a "Raid World" isn't quite something that would fit in with the current path that DU is taking(as well as other species types). Perhaps, something close to it is a possibility. For example, let's say that through time into the future, crime/rebellion is still something that we have to deal with. As a result multiple pirate "Guilds" have formed. Wether they're people who don't agree with the current state of government, or just outlaws and thieves. Rebels/criminals being who they are, would most likely have planetary bases, space stations, and or ships. Any one of these could be the "Dungeon Raid" so many want. As for the whole idea of picking separate races for players to choose, why not have them choose between several "Teams" instead. The "Federation"(Law followers), "Rebels/Criminals"(No description necessary), and the "Neutrals". The neutrals would the players who just want to play without having to plan on how to "Defeat The Enemy". They could be anything, Merchants, explorers, builders, manufacturers, etc. They could also be hired guns for either side... So long as the pay good enough. :D

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That's where factions come in. You may already know this, but, there are a ton of factions out there (Actually like, 10. Such as the DUA (See signature ;)) who are acting as the Republic, An Empire or two, A few Alliances, some companies, etc. If players want to go solo, feel free, but if you want to start out as part of a 'team', it works by joining a faction. So that makes starting teams (Like WoW's Horde and Alliance) useless. 

On the topic of different races, I have to agree with Vylqun on this. The human race will not have evolved within 500 years for there to be clearly different races among them, apart from the existing ones. I do, however, hope they add in playable aliens from existing civilizations further down the line of DU's development. With all the exploring going to be done by players and the planned concept of alien ruins and technology to be discovered, it makes sense to one day have aliens as a playable race. Perhaps for those who funded the Kickstarter program starting end of this year. Realistically, if there are aliens out there, they are most likely on a planet similar to Earth (Aka, a planet with water, capable of life, etc) 

 

It has been confirmed that there are already aliens in DU. If you've read the short story written for DU, you'll know the main character encounters one. (He doesn't see it or speak with it, but it's obvious it's there. He communicates with it via some statue mojo which is actually really interesting, in my opinion. (If you haven't already, I recommend you check it out. It explains a lot of DU's lore and was a very fun read)

So, to summarize, player made and run factions will act as your starting teams. Playable races? Perhaps in the future. Aliens? Yes, please.

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I also don't think that there will be different human species to choose from, at least not at game start, but genetical engineering could be a thing so that we could adapt to different kinds of environment and after a long time (don't know how long but i guess several years) we could end up with many differnet human species, i think Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda could be a good example.

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sry, but no matter what you do, 500 years are nothing compared to the time a species neesd to evolve, you could argue, that they tried to engineer the perfect human to survive in the space and made different versions of it because they weren't sure how well it would work, but even that takes a long, long time for development and an even longer time to get a proper population base, so no, you can be pretty sure that the beings on the arkships are very similar to us now.

 

Seriously? There are still sci-fi fans out there who have somehow missed on the whole last 30 years of the transhumanism cultural movement? The Kurzweil personality cult? Singularity U? None of those ring a bell?

 

The point is - Regardless of whether you believe in it or think it's real life application is plausible or want it within the game - that the tropes of genetic modifications, cybernetics and possibly even uplifting and robotics provide the developers with plenty of common sci fi ways to provide us with different starting races even when we're all arriving from earth. Stating that it doesn't fit the lore provided to us so far is simply incorrect.

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The point is - Regardless of whether you believe in it or think it's real life application is plausible or want it within the game - that the tropes of genetic modifications, cybernetics and possibly even uplifting and robotics provide the developers with plenty of common sci fi ways to provide us with different starting races even when we're all arriving from earth. Stating that it doesn't fit the lore provided to us so far is simply incorrect.

 

so, you think that humandkind which has pooled all ressources in creating a few ark-ships still has the opportunities to create a few thousand stable mutations which lead to completely new races? I'm honored that you give scientists so much reputation, but it is really extremely unlikely^^

And just because its used in many different scifi works it doenst mean it has to be used in DU. We still dont even know if you ever leave your space suit^^

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so, you think that humandkind which has pooled all ressources in creating a few ark-ships still has the opportunities to create a few thousand stable mutations which lead to completely new races? I'm honored that you give scientists so much reputation, but it is really extremely unlikely^^

 

The UK approved human GM embryos this February & Elizabeth Parrish announced that she has successfully modified her own cellular tissue this April.... Did the arkship leave earth in the Bush years?

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For me it works out that they are doing the space suits. Also, it's not like every scientist dropped what they were doing just because the world was changing. I think its highly likely that the fields of longevity and genetic therapy continued on. Theres plenty of people going for the mind machine interface path instead of a purely biological immortality, Im sure they got close to mind upload or heavy cyborg-ification.

 

So the fact that we're all in suits, and you cant truly tell whats underneath works out pretty good for now.

 

I intend to go on and roleplay being a kemonomimi, a person with human and animal traits. Cat, Fox, Dog, Wolf, would probably be some of the commons, and if they do go on to make more suits it wouldn't be that hard to accommodate a few that have extra earspace for the niche. If they made human models, it would not be so difficult to make a few hairstyles that remove human ears and replace them with a few animal ones.

 

As for cyborgs, I mean, same deal theyre pretty much humans with tech replacing organic portions of their body, or even being an entirely synthetic human.

 

While yes it is more work, they'll have plenty of time after release to focus on adding some of these flavor enhancements.

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The UK approved human GM embryos this February & Elizabeth Parrish announced that she has successfully modified her own cellular tissue this April.... Did the arkship leave earth in the Bush years?

 

ooh, there's a long long way from these little playthings to actual genetic modifications where you could call the result a new race^^

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ooh, there's a long long way from these little playthings to actual genetic modifications where you could call the result a new race^^

 

Perhaps, except that your entire entire argument is now reliant on the minutia of project management scaling within a field that you yourself seem to describe to be in it's infancy. You are essentially stating that we don't know enough to do it and yet that you yourself know enough about doing it to predict how long it would take. Essentially - either consciously or intuitively - you are trying to apply a Fermi estimation to the problem. which requires a way to grasp reasonable linear estimates. It is fantastic for finding the scope of an atom bomb or the number of piano tuners in Chicago, but breaks down when you are dealing with accelerating technologies. You can not use a Fermi estimate to predict the size of the gaming market in the 2010s based on the data from the age of vacuum tube calculations.

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The main question is, when can you call something that you have created a new species? After the change of 1% of its genom, 5%, 10% or even 50%?

1% maybe even 5% would be pretty easy, the only thing you have to do is cleaning the genom of broken genes and the kind that would be likely to be mutating, and fill the created gaps with more stable and desirable genes. Is this already a new species or is it human because it is still made up of human genes?

Or a other question would a human with cosmetic changes on genetic level like a fox tail and ears (without the better hearing) still be a human or would he belong to a new species? This is probably a more philosophical approach but still valid i think.

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The main question is, when can you call something that you have created a new species? After the change of 1% of its genom, 5%, 10% or even 50%?

1% maybe even 5% would be pretty easy, the only thing you have to do is cleaning the genom of broken genes and the kind that would be likely to be mutating, and fill the created gaps with more stable and desirable genes. Is this already a new species or is it human because it is still made up of human genes?

Or a other question would a human with cosmetic changes on genetic level like a fox tail and ears (without the better hearing) still be a human or would he belong to a new species? This is probably a more philosophical approach but still valid i think.

 

In real life I would say the ability to mate would probably be a natural line to go by. although that can also be a risky line, what if isolationist factions try to superimpose mating limitations? My family wasn't too happy the first time I married a shiksa, I'd hate to see what they'd do if they had a viral gene modifications in their disposal  :P

 

In-game it really just depends on where you want to draw the boarders in the character options menu, what differences in terms of gameplay abilities and roles you might want them to have, as well as the lore and history behind each archetype. 

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Perhaps, except that your entire entire argument is now reliant on the minutia of project management scaling within a field that you yourself seem to describe to be in it's infancy. You are essentially stating that we don't know enough to do it and yet that you yourself know enough about doing it to predict how long it would take.

 

yes, indeed, i can't be sure about how long such a development will take, but a few estimations are possible. We just "recently" finished mapping the human genom, wich doesnt even mean that we know how all genes interact. Making changes to it that don't only target a few genes with single purposeses will take at least 10 to 20 years and you surely can't expect the creation of complex DNA strands which improve/change an organism in more than single properties within the next 50 years. The earliest date in which we would be able to create a seperate race, even if we only change human DNA and don't completely synthesize it, will be in something like 100 years. 

What follows afterwards is throughout testing if the changes work properly and don't impact the person negatively, for something like that you need several generations of test subjects which have to be watched till they are at least 70 (wouldn't make sense to shorten the lifespan, so you have to see if nothing wrong happens in old age).

Lets assume you only test up to the 7th or 8th generation (which is far to few, but we dont have much time) that takes another ~300 years. and then you have barely a century left to get a big population of those people to ensure their survival? Very unlikely.

 

Of course you could say that they could go untested just to have more races, but i definitely don't like it. Aside from the fact, that no one in his right mind would research more human races and increase the diversity, because in human history diversity always led to war and discrimination, and when the survival of humanity is on the line they surely wont work on increasing potential threats to it.

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sry, but no matter what you do, 500 years are nothing compared to the time a species neesd to evolve, you could argue, that they tried to engineer the perfect human to survive in the space and made different versions of it because they weren't sure how well it would work, but even that takes a long, long time for development and an even longer time to get a proper population base, so no, you can be pretty sure that the beings on the arkships are very similar to us now.

 

And it is even more unlikely, that we encounter aliens in the next 500 years which are participating in thausands year long cryo-sleep instead of just using their own spaceships or, if they're damaged, helping the humans to build a proper ftl engine. So i'd say no to aliens too.

Heh, we have actually evolved in 500 years :D we are like... 4-5 inches taller on average.

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yes, indeed, i can't be sure about how long such a development will take, but a few estimations are possible. We just "recently" finished mapping the human genom, wich doesnt even mean that we know how all genes interact. Making changes to it that don't only target a few genes with single purposeses will take at least 10 to 20 years and you surely can't expect the creation of complex DNA strands which improve/change an organism in more than single properties within the next 50 years. The earliest date in which we would be able to create a seperate race, even if we only change human DNA and don't completely synthesize it, will be in something like 100 years. 

What follows afterwards is throughout testing if the changes work properly and don't impact the person negatively, for something like that you need several generations of test subjects which have to be watched till they are at least 70 (wouldn't make sense to shorten the lifespan, so you have to see if nothing wrong happens in old age).

Lets assume you only test up to the 7th or 8th generation (which is far to few, but we dont have much time) that takes another ~300 years. and then you have barely a century left to get a big population of those people to ensure their survival? Very unlikely.

 

This is what I meant regarding approaching the problem like a fermi estimation. They tried making the same estimations during the human genome project, and they were wrong:

human.genes.mapped.per.year.jpg

 

 

To do a better job at estimate with exponential growths, it's better to think of each point not as a rate milestone but rather as a tool for the next. Instead of thinking "we just now completed the genome project, took us this long, so this is how long it will take us now", think "we now have the tool to sequence and compare genetic differences between millions of individuals, in what new position does that place us".

 

The time it would take to make complicated changes that require more then one gene depends on our ability to understand how the genes interact. The more data we have the more comparisons we can make, and large scale collection is increasingly becoming economical viable with a flattening cost (Graph a bit too big to add as an image in a post). This is still turning humans into.. Well, healthier humans. But doing the same to animals and plants on a large enough scale to understand the specific interactions between the different genes is not far off after that. Some of those we understand statistically but not mechanically - but one tends to follow the other. For instance finding the genetic differences between people with sleep problems helped us know which genes to look for when we examined them for protein expression, and only later did we find out how genes can operate as a biological clock.

 

Next comes the question of testing, but the vast majority of modifications don't require a couple of generations of humans, they require a couple of generations of cells, which is actually a lot more cautious then any other industry. We didn't put a lot of cars together in a simulated city to see how it might effect us and predict car accidents and pollution, we bought cars. Their were years of push-backs against television, computer games, mobile devices and social media and how it can be harmful to children, people got it for themselves and their kids anyway. People will get GM kids because they want their kids to have better opportunities, their will be a back lash and demands for more testing as there is always, and yet people will still do what people do. What better means in particular will change periodically and from society to society, which is where history and in this case in-game lore comes to play. In some places it could just mean smarter and more athletic, in other places it could mean surviving a flood or a drought or lower food portions. Values can also be a big part of this, beyond health and survival - while right now we tend to see religions apposing GM, what could happen when its acceptable enough that a couple with faith will visit a fertility clinic and find a genetic combination that's statistically more likely to adhere to strict dogma? Alternatively, go to a reddit and ask what kin they want their children to be. The extent to which someone can change their own genes as an adult would probably be one of the biggest factors in the long run of how it plays out. If in one extreme it is entirely reliant on GM babies, on the other it can be subject to fashion trend. In your long estimate, you seem to be imagining a long careful plan specifically to create new species. All you need is to imagine people being people and employees looking to get paid.

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The highest demand in time is the testing, and honestly, just a few generations of cell samples just wont do the job in a complex system like a human. We don't talk about something like giving humans skinpigments that can reflect UV or something like that, we talk about integral changes which lead to completely different races. 

If the future on mankind rests on those new races they certainly wont go untested, because there could always be degeneration effects over several generations. 

 

Considering the Human genom project, yes, it advanced extremely fast in the end because of the use of decentralised networks, but that was only possible because the work was done automatically by an algorithm, there was no need for intelligence. The development of a new race is something completely different, you need a lot of manpower for something like that. (yes, i know, it was just an example to make your point, but it doesnt really fit in this case because the work process is completely different) The longest time for research is the measuring and testing after the samples were created, and for the last straw of mankind it wont be cut short or reduced to a few series of cell-samples.

We have seen problems occuring because of insufficient testing in the past, be it because the amount of samples was to few or because humans had, unexpectedly, a different reaction than test animals, i repeat myself here when i say that such a thing wont do if the survival depends on it.

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OK while some here don't seem to think past what we know now...let me say that out there, in space...we know nothing. There could well be man eating animals on nearly every planet, we don't know. Plants and trees already and grassy fields, we don't know, and races that aren't even close to human looking, there's a real chance they exist somewhere. Maybe not on the first planet we see, but one of them thereafter. Beings that evolved on other worlds could easily be out there, so Arkships are only a drop in the bucket of the Universe in an open universe exploration game.

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I'm going to agree with Vylqun on this one. Most of these suggestions don't really fit into the scope of what we've been told about Dual Universe.

 

Specifically because the many of the ideas require artificial limits placed on the concept of "single shard persistent universe". 

 

I couldn't have put it any better than Vylqun when he said:

 

 

 

Free yourself from your casual mmorpg-experiences and embrace the all-embracing, unlimited sandboxness of dual universe :P

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What is the point of multiple races in all seriousness?

The game's lore points to rebuilding the Terran civilisation (with all its PvP glory). You start in an Arkship from Earth, so I don't see multiple races being viable.

ALTHOUGH. I'm tots down for some weird-ass Vault-Tec inspired experiments, turning us into werewolves, vampires, or ferret-human hybrids. Cause THAT would be awkard AND funny if it's randomised.

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What is the point of multiple races in all seriousness?

 

The game's lore points to rebuilding the Terran civilisation (with all its PvP glory). You start in an Arkship from Earth, so I don't see multiple races being viable.

 

ALTHOUGH. I'm tots down for some weird-ass Vault-Tec inspired experiments, turning us into werewolves, vampires, or ferret-human hybrids. Cause THAT would be awkard AND funny if it's randomised.

The meaning USUALLY with them is to kinda allow people to see the world from another races perspective... or with diffrent stats.

 

This however mostly only works with MMO's that has quests or NPCs that can react or do diffrent things dependant on your race.

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What if in order to play as a yet unnamed species (because Race is definitely the wrong word to use here), players actually had to discover their home planet first?

 

Something similar to how the Jedi system worked in old school Star Wars Galaxies, except the unlock would be server-wide instead of just for one player account.

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