Possible Solution to the P2P/F2P Argument

[TrihXeen]

It is completely understandable how this would not work, but it is at least food for thought.

 

Anyone in Ninja Clan Fu, including MatzaJew and myself WILL BE P2P from the beginning. This is purely an idea/solution to the want of the game being F2P to some extent.

 

This is not us wanting a F2P version of the game.

 

 

So I have been discussing the subject of everyone posting about the subscription dilemma plaguing the forums with @MatzaJew

 

I got the idea when we were discussing other games sub models. I have played Runescape for about 12 yrs. For those who don't know, they have two types of server. F2p and P2P servers. Now, DU is one shard so that wouldn't work. But, what would be the possibility of sectioning a solar system or two that would be a F2P zone on the same shard. A zone that would keep F2P in THAT zone and P2P would be kept out of it. You could get into it from P2P, but you wound't take anything with you. Your character would become the F2P equivalent. There would also be VERY VERY limited contact between the zones. 

 

This zone would have a lot of limiting factors:

 

1.) You would only be able to build so many cubic meters of voxels. So you would only be able to build either a small ship and small building, or either a medium structure or medium ship(still be limited to one person). This would allow people to experience the building aspect of the game, but be limiting enough so that they are experiencing a small percentage of what awaits them in the P2P universe.

 

2.) You would be limited on what materials you could use to build. i.e. bronze for ships or wood for structures.

 

3.) You would be SEVERELY limited on the amount of resources your character can carry. As well as how much money you can make. This would keep from grinding for more than the trial period and pay for P2P with in-game money.

 

4.) Skills would also be SEVERELY limited to basic knowledge. Things like forges, refineries, smithies, stoves and what not would be found around the F2P arkship, much like Runescape, they would work for multiple people at one time.

 

5.) The F2P zone could also be a non-PVP zone to some extent. Maybe the weapons in the area have limited damage they do, so PK-ing would be very difficult.

 

6.) Organizations would be limited to 3 people, if there are any. This would allow people to see how the mechanic works, but they still aren't experiencing the full version.

 

7.) As well as the F2P zone having its own market. While it could be a part of the whole games market, you wouldn't be able to get into or out of the zone to collect your stuff. Also as mentioned before, F2P would be limited on how much money their character can have. So it would make sense to have their own market, if the even get one.

 

Some other options to consider:

 

1.) Being stuck on the planet, and not being able to traverse space on your own. But, you could pay an NPC to fly you to another planet, moon or what not. I would be expensive, or only possible once P2P members have been able to leave Alioth. This would keep F2P from experiencing space travel before P2P members.

 

2.) Not having a F2P global market, but you travel to certain areas to buy/sell what you need.

 

3.) Only having a limited number of play hours per 24 hour period. i.e. only getting to be in the F2P zone for 8 hours per 24 hour period.

 

4.) There could also be a F2P zone "wipe" every 2-4 weeks, so that the zone does not get completely destroyed and over run. How this would be accomplished would need to be figured out, but could be an option.

 

We decided to put this together to give a possible solution to the argument of F2P vs. P2P since not many people have many out-of-the-box ideas for solving this dilemma.

 

We have talked back and forth for hours about this before I decided to put this post together. We understand that some people are happy with bare minimum, so removing certain aspects of the game would make it playable, but you wouldn't get the full experience of the P2P area of the game.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read and consider what we have come up with. OVERALL, we feel this gives someone enough of an experience of the game outside of the 2-4 week trial, while limiting the amount of time the could possibly have to play this F2P area.

 

Thanks again for reading! 

 

-TrihXeen & MatzaJew

[Trajan_Slawic]

That's a nice idea, but do you want that model in addition to the trial abo (I don't know if that is fixed: the 2-4 weeks trial) or as a "standalone version". Then I'm sure the f2p servers are fast compromised with cheaters and hackers, because there are no real barriers when got banned: new user account and go on.

 

There is a devblog where NQ gave an overview about the problems of having a game f2p. Your solution sounds good, but I think only when there are two servers, a f2p and a p2p server. When both players are on the same, but in separated areas, some players would find a way to omit the developer's barriers (bugusing, hacking,...) - that would lead to a worse player experience for p2p accounts and "good" f2p accounts which are not cheaters.

 

Only my opinion, if I understand you wrong please explain it to me

[TrihXeen]

I guess they could run a secondary server, and scale down the size of the universe to just a couple of solar systems. Hopefully NQ will do hardware bans and/or IP bans, making it harder for people to just make another account. If someone could hack the game to get into the P2P, couldn't that be done regardless of it having a F2P area? 

 

I should add, the whole point of this F2P zone, is not meant to support someone playing the game for free, but to drive them to want to pay for the game to be able to do more.

[Dreamstar]

There will be plex for the game. Perhaps a welfare system is something Cinderfall and other big alliance orgs. Or even states could look into

[Trajan_Slawic]

I guess they could run a secondary server, and scale down the size of the universe to just a couple of solar systems. Hopefully NQ will do hardware bans and/or IP bans, making it harder for people to just make another account. If someone could hack the game to get into the P2P, couldn't that be done regardless of it having a F2P area? 

 

I should add, the whole point of this F2P zone, is not meant to support someone playing the game for free, but to drive them to want to pay for the game to be able to do more.

 

Ok, a secondary server makes more sense to me . To your question: You are right, with hacking there is no difference between having a f2p area or not. But I meant especially bugusing, using a way the developers had not considered and so "jump" to the p2p area. If there is no f2p area, you have to find a way to access to the server, same problem when you have two server environments as you suggested (problem for cheaters, this shall not to be meant as opposition to your idea).

 

I think the two-server solution, one p2p and one f2p with all restrictions you named, can work best if you combine it with the 2-4 weeks of trial. Limited access to the server, only 4 weeks per ip-adress/account, frequent wipes. So that new players (f2p) cannot play a role in DU politics or history, don't disturb advanced players with attempts of raiding or spamming and trolling in the global chat, etc.

[TrihXeen]

 

I think the two-server solution, one p2p and one f2p with all restrictions you named, can work best if you combine it with the 2-4 weeks of trial. Limited access to the server, only 4 weeks per ip-adress/account, frequent wipes. So that new players (f2p) cannot play a role in DU politics or history, don't disturb advanced players with attempts of raiding or spamming and trolling in the global chat, etc.

What would be the point of a F2P area, if your time is limited to the trial period? Also, I said it would be a completely separate zone, so there would be NO interaction between F2P and P2P players. 

[Shynras]

This game is about freedom, if you limit everything you have no fun, and you give a bad experience to the f2p players. They could grind plex to play in the p2p area? Sure, but the grind would be so slow and boring that they'll just give up and remember this game as a bad experience. Why it would be so slow and grindy? Because if you need to limit resources people and everything in that zone, their income would be seriously insignificant compared to the main p2p economy. And if you are not able to grind your plex with the 2-4 weeks trial, where the game is not even limited, it means that you don't really have the time to do that especially in the f2p zone.

 

then it splits the playerbase.

then it feels bad to know the game is partially freemium, because freemium is usually associated with bad games, trying to get a bunch of more players, because low population

then would kill the hype. You cannot pay to play the game? Maybe you'll be able to in 1 year, and you'll sub monthly from that time on. or maybe there is a freemium system, you play a month, eveything is limited and you get bored since the game is not meant to be played like that, then you'll never come back 1 year after, because that month was enough for you to have a basic knowledge, and your hype is no more there.

P2p games are ofc expensive but well considered by the players, because they expect updates, a polished games, good servers, etc... the presence of he freemium, would degrade this idea. At least that'my opinion

[Trajan_Slawic]

What would be the point of a F2P area, if your time is limited to the trial period? Also, I said it would be a completely separate zone, so there would be NO interaction between F2P and P2P players.

Yes, you said that, and I said that the only way to separate players are two separate servers. Your idea is writing "TrihXeen's prison" on a house; and then you think: "It's impossible to break out, because I say so." That is naive. (shouldn't be meant as aggressive behaviour)

 

I hope that NQ does not open a different zone only for f2pers, far from it. Better they make a p2p model COMBINED with a cash shop, economically the best way (for NQ).

 

@Shynras

 

In my opinion you are totally right.

 

EDIT: Sorry, i accidentally clicked on a button with a hook (in the smartphone version). Could you tell me what function that have (or if it had consequenzes, how i can cancel them?) Thank you

[MatzaJew]

To add some traction to the idea Trixheen posted, we would consider this F2P version an extended demo.

Take into account that on your trial period your only going to have so much progression. Ship will only be so big, home made from basic materials, and just a few 'elements' at your tech in that time. What F2P does is just extend your time but lock you in right there. The F2P aspect will always bring freetohack players but if this f2p extended demo server is completely seperate from p2p, and the server not even have the full game assets loaded onto it, with a super shrunk universe, about the only harm your going to receive is people hacking just so they can build walls around every ones house. Aka It would basically be left to just pure trolling. Though I guess it could be a testing ground for full version hacking... But IP bans and hardware bans are a decent place to start with but coming from my CCNA background I know thats just a temporary measure for the extremely dedicated hackmonsters out there.

[MatzaJew]

To add, this is topic is for conjecture. I'm personally an advocate for paying for the game, and immediately needing to pay for a sub before I can even get past the trial limitations. The cost should be steep for miscreants and snobs alike. Anyone bothering a normal player after that is at least helping keep the server paid for the rest of us.

[Kiklix]

Introducing all kinds of barriers based on the pay model of the game introduces confusion to new players and it also introduces a lot of coding.

 

Dual needs to keep this simple, just make it a subscription model at X amount per month. Everyone is on the same footing, there is no confusion and no additional coding because of tiered gameplay or anything else confusing.

 

I really don't understand what is so hard about accepting a simple subscription model. Look, I do not say this to be abrasive, but this is simple. If you can not afford a modest monthly subscription, then you should probably be asking for more hours at work instead of playing video games, if you are a younger person...save your allowance, go mow an extra lawn a month or pick up a single evening of babysitting.

 

There is no need to over complicate how Novaquark is compensated for their services.

[MatzaJew]

Another note, this would be something I wouldn't want to see day one of the game release. Maybe the 1 year anniversary for instance. As Kiklix posted above, Dual needs to keep this simple.

 

Edit:

Were playing devil's advocate for this thread and are inviting others to do the same. If your unsure about it even being possible don't worry about it. We're just openly discussing what were verbally going back forth about for over an hour. Adding to any possible way the F2P Could be viable. Different viewpoints from everyone here is what were seeking, 2 head's better than 1 etc. We've exhausted what we could come up with and are asking what everyone else can come up with to answer the "Potential ways F2P COULD be possible"

 

After sleeping on it had this idea:

Consider this a permanent tutorial island. The game is going to free, then a free tutorial period, then the payment will be required. Barring that, this is where the F2P could live, just a permanent variant of after reaching the tutorial conclusion. Or even instead of going through that last door, just go backwards and live in that tutorial room making some quick creations and play around for a bit. Maybe people want to pay for the game but are waiting for that pay check to come in. Playing around in the F2P tutorial room could be at least decent creative fun. 

[TrihXeen]

I'm ALL for P2P, don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to bring ideas to the table and throw out ideas for people to discuss. We are, after all, 2 years away from release.