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Aurenian

What are skills? and how do they work?

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There seems to be a lot of debate here about the skill system, but to clarify, NQ has said it will be time based like Eve Online.

18PB7iC.png

 

 

I am personally a fan of this type of skill system, as it guarantees nobody will ever be a master at every skill tree, and it's flexible enough that people can choose what they want to specialize in doing. It also keeps new players from buying their way into ships and other things they don't have the skills to use, and it reduces the pay to win potential. 

 

I know some people aren't fans of a time based skill system, but I'm 100% in favor of it. 

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There seems to be a lot of debate here about the skill system, but to clarify, NQ has said it will be time based like Eve Online.

 

18PB7iC.png

 

 

I am personally a fan of this type of skill system, as it guarantees nobody will ever be a master at every skill tree, and it's flexible enough that people can choose what they want to specialize in doing. It also keeps new players from buying their way into ships and other things they don't have the skills to use, and it reduces the pay to win potential. 

 

I know some people aren't fans of a time based skill system, but I'm 100% in favor of it. 

 

I do like that system, for the reason you listed here .... BUT .... I do like also being rewarded for what you do in the game.  You may get the log on set skill training log off problem which does not promote continuous in game playing or toons active in the universe.

 

If there could be some kind of combination of the two that would be great.

 

Obviously it wouldn't be train the same skill either way or both ways but the time training is sort of raising the roof or opening doors and the repeat the action will increase efficiency.  For example I can only chop down wood and dig dirt with skill mining 1 time trained and then iron and copper with mining 2 time train etc.  However the more I dig dirt the more I can get per second or less loss I have when digging.  This would stack with any tools that people can build.

 

Not sure how the balance would work or if it could but this would have best of both worlds in a way, limit those playing 24/7 to max out skills quick and not have to specialize or rely on others for different things BUT!!! does still promote active online playing. 

 

If I had to choose one however the time training is preferred even though it is so annoying to wait, you do appreciate it more when you achieve it and it does become more valued by other players if it is a skill that takes a long time.

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There seems to be a lot of debate here about the skill system, but to clarify, NQ has said it will be time based like Eve Online.

 

18PB7iC.png

 

 

I am personally a fan of this type of skill system, as it guarantees nobody will ever be a master at every skill tree, and it's flexible enough that people can choose what they want to specialize in doing. It also keeps new players from buying their way into ships and other things they don't have the skills to use, and it reduces the pay to win potential. 

 

I know some people aren't fans of a time based skill system, but I'm 100% in favor of it. 

Ugh that is really disappointing if it is EXCLUSIVELY time based. The exclusive time based system was something I disliked a lot about eve. In my eyes there are much better ways to make sure people are not masters of all. Personally I think the hybrid solution talked about earlier in the thread is the best. I always thought something like training guns takes 8 hours. But if you shoot a lot of guns in that time it can take 4 or 6 instead. Some way to actual reward a player for playing the game and doing the thing they are training.

 

I also feel like strictly time based systems make people feel less open to exploring other aspects of the game. I invested 100 day in small fighter but i really wanna try medium fighter, but then I'd have to invest another 100 days in medium fighter, so just say screw it and stay small fighter. If they maybe implemented a path system as well as skill. Such as piloting, the more piloting skills you have the easier it is to learn other piloting skills. Obviously controlled in some way so that it doesn't make it easy. In my eyes if I know I'm investing 100 days into small fighter but that will also make learning medium fighter take 70 days instead of 100 it doesn't feel like such a harsh punishment for investing in a path I ended up not enjoying as much as I thought.

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There are a couple of neat tricks Eve's time based skill system did. One of them is that the time from level 4 --> 5(the max) is always greater than the time from 1 --> 4. A newer player can get to be on par with a vet in terms of skill bonuses in not that much time. The other neat trick is how horizontal the progression is. The difference between a vet and newbie the amount of variation in the roles that player could take on.

 

The problem I see with the "gain the skill by doing it" is that it is still taking time: by grinding. Humans are natural min/maxers and player psychology has show time and time again that they will self inflict unfund grinding on themselves, even if the devs never intended it to be grindy.

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There are a couple of neat tricks Eve's time based skill system did. One of them is that the time from level 4 --> 5(the max) is always greater than the time from 1 --> 4. A newer player can get to be on par with a vet in terms of skill bonuses in not that much time. The other neat trick is how horizontal the progression is. The difference between a vet and newbie the amount of variation in the roles that player could take on.

 

The problem I see with the "gain the skill by doing it" is that it is still taking time: by grinding. Humans are natural min/maxers and player psychology has show time and time again that they will self inflict unfund grinding on themselves, even if the devs never intended it to be grindy.

Hopefully, DUAL will have a skill-cap, cause the game may end up real cheesy a year down the line where someone can be ninja / doctor/ engineer/ sniper / pilot / physicist.

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I don't think it is cheesy at all, because what the player can do will be limited by the items and equipment they carry on them.

 

Players also get very attached to their avatar, yet their gameplay interests will drift over time. My character in Eve is 10 years old now I think, and it has done everything from nullsec miner living to mission running to wormhole explorer to pvp warp scrambler to logistic healing to battleship dps. And with time based skills I continued doing what I enjoyed while training for the next thing I was interested in, without having to start over with another character from scratch. My husband is different, he loves leveling alts in WoW.

 

What you propose is a player designed class system. And being humans who are natural min/maxers these classes will end up more or less just as ridged as if the devs hard coded them. The more I think about playing Dual over the course of years the more the idea of classes, be it by skill cap or hard code, makes me lose interest because my main would be perminatly shoehorned into a role that I may want to change over time.

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It is tab targeting and voxel mining so that constrains a skill tree:

Sniper: as described by Captaintwerkmotor (can't keep a straight face while typing that name) above but I would use Steady [+accuracy], Sights [you can use better sights; longer range], Anticipation [Effect of cover reduced if it's only a few voxels and the target is moving; his foot was sticking out! ], Trick shot [ bonus to hit if there are elements around or as cover], Smoother reload [reduced reload penalty to accuracy], Incendiary [bonus damage to vehicles and elements], Decoy [false muzzle flashes everywhere ], Camouflage [reduced draw distance for you], Windage [long range shots more accurate], Head shot [more bonus damage chances at medium range], Clean gun [accuracy reduction for mud, water, dust etc reduced], Zero g [you know where to aim in different gravity. ].   

Assault: Snap shot [+accuracy at close range], Anticipation [Effect of cover reduced if it's only a few voxels and the target is moving. ], Backstabber [+damage if flanking or behind], Shotty [can use a shotgun without blowing your foot off], Smooth feed [ more damage], Smoke screen [they see nothing], Head shot [more bonus damage chances at medium range], Trapper [you can rig a trap gun], Clean gun [accuracy reduction for mud water etc reduced], Zero g [you know where to aim in different gravity. ].  
Heavy gun: burst [+accuracy at close range], Anticipation [Effect of cover reduced if it's only a few voxels. ], Leading the target [+accuracy if the target is moving], Blow though [single voxel cover goes away loudly], Enfilade [+damage if flanking, multiple targets ], Cover fire [wider angle of fire but lower damage; targets near hit target take some damage ], Smooth feed [ more damage], Dust and lead [they see nothing but a cloud of debris where they are], Shredder [more bonus damage chances], Trapper [you can rig a trap gun], Clean gun [- accuracy reduction for mud water etc], Zero g [you know where to aim in different gravity ].  

Missiles: Tracking [missile track the target a bit], Anticipation [Effect of cover on tracking reduced if it's only a few voxels. ], Blow though [single voxel cover/ armour goes away loudly], Frag [you can use frag missiles in close, almost safely], Leading the target [+accuracy if the target is moving], Autodetect [+accuracy at close range (watch the blast)], Sensors [you can you technology to boost tracking accuracy and duration], Ghost [you can set a missile launcher as a booby trap.(WW2 troops took out Panthers by turning bazooka rounds into mines and IUD's. ) ], Zero g [you know where to aim in different gravity ].
 

Crafting: Efficient [-% resources consumed], Hot head [+% bonus from foundry], Recycling [ elements can be scrapped getting % resources back], Mass production[+ bonus item chance if making more than 20], Decoys [you can craft decoy elements from stone, wood and a few base ingredient; they don't work but they are cheap decoys. And they don't stack], Building big [you can build big elements or use an Industrial Unit].
Mining: Fast [nanoformer digs bigger voxel volume ], Low power [nanoformer uses less power digging], Prospecting [You can analyse dug rock to get a hint of the nearest mineral deposits direction], Geology [increases Prospecting range and detail], Bonus [you can get a bonus ore yield from the ore voxel you are mining. This may not be an additional voxel(There's an exploit)], Trace elements [ore yields a few other ore types in small quantities], Primordial [ mining yields refined metal not ore; vacuum worlds only], Booster [You can use booster element placed in a mine that boost or power nearby nanoformers], Ex Nihilo [Mining rock near an ore voxel yields bonus ore], Cave in [you can reset stone, dirt and regolith only to world seed state, Heal, noisy. ], Salting the mine [a little ore in a shotgun and you confuse the hell out of the people raiding your mine. Throws out prospecting results. ], Seismic mapping [gets a map of resources underground].

 

Farmer/ logger/ gatherer: Steward [+% biological resources], Scythe [Grass area can be harvested for longer; higher ratio of plant products to dirt], Botany [% chance of bonus plant or seed. ], Green thumb [you can replant areas; resets the surface voxel and voxels above to world seed after a delay. A heal perhaps with a hidden placed item. ], Farm [can make and use farm units if any], Caretaker [can craft hedges, planters, flower beds (voxel with grass dirt and a specific plant on it. )],

Beekeeper [ you can make and place items that support or spawn insects; not just bees. ], Zoology/ Rancher [ you can make and craft live stock feeders and deploy stock cryonics unit; You did save the animals right? ], Landscaper [you can lay down dirt onto rock, paint. ]

 

Those last three are not likely early alpha or beta skill groups. Adding animals to the game will be long term if at all and maybe just crafting such things and placing them counts as job done without bothering with the animal mesh. Life is feudal does small animals nicely. 

 

In most cases there would be several levels: ie Tracking level 1,2,3   Blow through probability percent. Yield %. 

If you know pen and paper RPG's then you know most of tab targeting the computer works out if you have line of sight, range and it knows both parties movements. The rest is the same as the paper RPG or miniatures systems: rules, skills, weapon parts bonus or penalty to both, travel time of the attack and armour of the target. Then the computer throws in a digital dice roll at lower skill.   

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