Storing data in game

[marax27]

Hello everyone. Will it be possible to store data - for example text files - in game? It would be great if you could connect a large number of DPUs to a single "server" DPU and make them download something from (or upload something to) that server.
I've been discussing this issue with user Ignorer. He suggested implementing Data Block (basically a data drive) and I think it might be a really good solution.
What do you think about it?
 

[Wicpar]

i agree, to be able to have scripts server side will enable people using multiple pcs to have an easier time.

 

additionally, you will need to have your base run alone when you are offline anyways...

 

NQ may not have the need now, but i guarantee they will have it. and scripts are sooo light.

 

now the only question is: can we have an API for interfacing with the server?

[Violet]

All I can suggest is the way that computer craft in minecraft works is that you can craft a floppy disk drive that you can store your programs on and that lua can read and write files to.

 

Perhaps you can plug in "storage crystals" into "IO port elements" and be able to access them. 

[marax27]

I think devs should implement only simple stuff, like functions that will allow sending data client <--> server. Creating API, like checking for data integrity, blocking unwanted connections etc., might be up to us.

[Wicpar]

All I can suggest is the way that computer craft in minecraft works is that you can craft a floppy disk drive that you can store your programs on and that lua can read and write files to.

 

Perhaps you can plug in "storage crystals" into "IO port elements" and be able to access them. 

good idea, i would even go further:

you can cerate an extensive AI system with storage, cpu etc... like in Applied energistics, with channels and stuff. Aditionally you would have an API interface to be able to access and modify that system outside the game (could be called Transquantum interface)

[Dominar]

In the Kickstarter video, JC mentioned that Lua scripts would be client side only. While I agree with the idea, will it be possible if scripts are only client side?

[marax27]

All I can suggest is the way that computer craft in minecraft works is that you can craft a floppy disk drive that you can store your programs on and that lua can read and write files to.

 

Perhaps you can plug in "storage crystals" into "IO port elements" and be able to access them. 

It could work, such access cards are an interesting concept. It isn't the best idea if we're talking about e.g. warship Very Important Mainframe, though.

[Wicpar]

I think devs should implement only simple stuff, like functions that will allow sending data client <--> server. Creating API, like checking for data integrity, blocking unwanted connections etc., might be up to us.

 

api. complicated. cannot connect. both are mutually exclusive.

the thing they have to do is create a log-in system for accessing your personal stuff, and then use a token to access the rest. They may limit these by setting a per second interaction quota. this is really simple stuff, and data integrity can be checked with the bazillion of libraries already existing.

 

Please people, stop saying things are too complicated, because most things aren't. The most complicated thing they do right now is the voxel system, which requires quite complicated algorithms to handle the octree and dual contouring. This includes the physics. and even that is reasonably feasible.

 

be positive, don't limit yourself by underestimated technology.

 

please excuse my frustration.

[Wicpar]

In the Kickstarter video, JC mentioned that Lua scripts would be client side only. While I agree with the idea, will it be possible if scripts are only client side?

 

ideas change, if the depth having scrips server side is massively more important and useful for fun mechanics, i am certain JC will reconsider it.

The original decision may have been because of server side performance and not too much usefulness, including the difficulty of filtering malicious code, thus rendering that idea in that way, but if we point out all the benefits, i don't see why they won't eventually change that decision.

[Violet]

I don't think anyone knows how the LUA scripting is going to work. I've read the dev diary before but it did not really explain it in a way I could get my head around it seemed to be a modular plug and play where elements have inputs and outputs rather than something like computer craft.

[Wicpar]

I don't think anyone knows how the LUA scripting is going to work. I've read the dev diary before but it did not really explain it in a way I could get my head around it seemed to be a modular plug and play where elements have inputs and outputs rather than something like computer craft.

 

yes i think so, but these are internal to components, having a dedicated component or a system like in Applied energistics to handle global construction ai, even offline, would be quite handy. Computercraft is quite useful for full fletched AI, but isn't needed for detection scripts or other things that are straight forward IO. for now only straight forward IO is planned.

[Ripper]

I can't help but think there NEEDS to be the ability to have server side scripting in addition to client side.

 

Here's an example using the "Trains" thread.

 

A player spends a tremendous amount of time and energy to create a train / tram system.  They're going to want to make some credits off their invention.  This means selling tickets (granting limited rights) to ride their train.  The user would most likely have to use a DPU to perform some basic logic to detect those rights.  (what are the odds of  creating the train WITHOUT using custom code and a DPU)

 

In order for the Train to work while the player is offline, the solution needs to be scripted server side.

[Ripper]

It's been confirmed via Kickstarter comments that LUA scripting will be client side.

[GalloInfligo]

So if it something owned by a corporation, is the client holding rhe scripts every memver in the organization?

[Zantsuken]

If the scripting is client side, does that mean our "stuff" will either vanish, or not work, when we are offline? Or does it mean another player who comes across our things will be running the scripts they contain in their client? I am not sure if our constructs stay in-game when we log out.

[Violet]

No one can really anwser that I don't think NQ know how it will work at this point

[Ripper]

My guess is the script would work on the PC of the person executing the script.  (vague, I know)

 

Here's an example.

 

You build a kiosk that does "something".  If a player interacted with that kiosk (regardless of whether you're online), the script would execute on their game client.

 

This would also work for ships, and multiplayer ships with consoles that did different things.

 

None of your constructs will disappear after logging off, and players with RIGHTS to access them, may do so.

 

 

I'm not sure about the "Train" example.  Can the train run on a track unattended?  I would think at least one player would need to be riding a train.  OR, the inventor has it run under a game client that never logs off.

[GalloInfligo]

well I guess you can just leave yourself logged in if that is what it takes, kinda like the store mode in everquest 2.

[Wicpar]

I think what will happen is they will make an api so you can setup a local server to manage your infrastructure. If it has the same bindings as the base game you may as well create elaborate AI without too much effort (well, trouble and issue wise).

[wesbruce]

Arguably if you make all items heritable on permanent departure of the game, which appears to be NQ's intention, if you log off with the org named as the beneficiary of your departure would get your scrips sent to them. So even though it is your script and private there is a backup accessible server-side at the org level. So if you can do that for permanent drop out of the game could you also do that for short term game absences. It may mean that the org's will need to maintain virtual server farms to hold, buffer, their members scrips.

 

If you give someone the right to fly your ship then logically that would involve transferring copies, under the hood, of all of the scripts but in a locked form. Like second life scripts there would be a range of allowances.  Locked, editable, single value adjustment, no resale, open do as you please, teaching scripts with a heap of annotation. 

[wesbruce]

Hello everyone. Will it be possible to store data - for example text files - in game? It would be great if you could connect a large number of DPUs to a single "server" DPU and make them download something from (or upload something to) that server.

I've been discussing this issue with user Ignorer. He suggested implementing Data Block (basically a data drive) and I think it might be a really good solution.

What do you think about it?

 

This will be essential if the players are writing the quests as contracts but there will be limits.

Some level of moderation and security would be needed. I would expect the first implementation with be contracts with relatively large instructional fields & mission completion fields, editable heading and URL vetting on the all text:

Spammers, porn, illegal copy right breaches, virus hacks, obscene demands, dud obsolete stuff. 

It would need net nanny and a spam detector on the URL's at the very least. A low pass virus scan may be needed. All this would be on posting or creation for distribution or sale. 

 

Anything sold, offered for sale or posted to the contract board would be server side not client side even though the execution of it is fully client side. So if you are off line the stuff still works. 

 

Note: If you have a star fighter and you go off line it would despawn (all ready stated). Bigger ships would need some greater persistence but when you allocate allowances to your crew and org the game would set up that persistence. This will be the greatest challenge in alpha. Lost and dead ships because all the crew just crashed at once.  Smaller ships would have more persistence if landed. I could imagine a special landing pad that saves your ship completely but despawn's it in the process. Several games have this. 

 

I'm not a dev. (I probably should fix that but my resume is so bad even I would not accept it. Can't even find by own referee's! Where have the years gone? )

[Ripper]

"Scripts" are an inherent part of a construct. They don't reside on your PC. They execute on your PC.

 

They stay in game as long as your construct does.

[Ripper]

Dupe post

[Wicpar]

"Scripts" are an inherent part of a construct. They don't reside on your PC. They execute on your PC.

 

They stay in game as long as your construct does.

 

I think it may be even not necessary to bind it to a component, just bind it to the account, since it only needs to be on the cloud to be transfered to another computer you log on where it isn't present...

 

maybe give us like 1G of dedicated blueprint/script storage each?

[Ripper]

The LUA develop states scripts will be attached to a DPU element.