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The PVP System


Shynras

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I don't really want to write a wall of text, so i'll just say straight, after life playing games, forum researching and so on, how the PVP and the safezones should be addressed. 

 

Assuming that stargates are not just istant teleports to any system in the universe, but that they can just link a system with a "close one", so you can't just reach a safezone by pressing a button:

 

Safezones

 

- Safezones should exist, because you can't protect your assets 24/24 since it's a game, not RL. 

- Safezones should be rare, or the PVP will die. And if the PVP dies, economy, building, and the social aspect will follow. 

- Safezones should be public. If there's a way to obtain a safezone by playing the game, this would be a feature that only huge and rich corporations would benefit. 

- Safezones should have banks to store your items and credits. But with a proper stargate system,where you can't just teleport everywhere anytime, you wouldn't have access to that so easily. Like EVE Online.

- Safezones should not be used for farming. If you want to mine or gather materials, there should be a risk associated with it, or the economy doesn't work. And this damages the PVP too. In a safezone you should be only able to find low level materials. If you want to make money, risk your ship. 

- Safezones should let people build, but only ships of a limited size, like 50x50x50. And you will have to rent the land.If you want to rent multiple lands, the price goes up exponentially like Everquest Landmark. If you want to build a huge ship, you would probably have a corporation able to defend your creation, otherwise as a solo player, you shouldn't probably drive that. You should be able to park your ship on the same land you rented, so you can be safe when you logoff. Ofc if you have a huge ship, you'll need a claimed land with "Territory control units", to land it safely.

- Safezones should be social HUB with recruiting, contracts, economy in mind. 

 

Safezones are 100% safe, so there's need to limit the amount of stuff you can hide there, build or farm. 

 

Territory Control

 

A land you own, as some kind of safety features. Ofc you shouldn't lose all your empire overnight, it doesn't make sense. So there's need for time window where the land is vulnerable, and i would create a system wimilar to the one EVE Online has. 

 

Land claimed can be attacked under certain circumstances, but you can build bigger, farm precious stuff, deposit all the items and ships you want.

 

That said, there's one last thing: 

 

Outlaw

 

They cannot attack safezones

They cannot use safezones

They should be able to attack claimed territories easier than "legal" commanders. 

They should be able to claim a territory ( for managing purposes inside their group) but they should not have any kind of protection nor time window of vulnerability. they should always be vulnerable. 

They should be really low on ships/resources, in a way that they would never want to grief a building for fun, but just open a small hole, and steal what you can. 

Automated defenses that a player can build on his territory, should give outlaws a real challenge, so that they would not just grief and destroy everything they see. 

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nearly all of those points has been adressed in several threads, it'd be good to use the search function before starting a thread or just look through the dev blogs which adress those points.

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nearly all of those points has been adressed in several threads, it'd be good to use the search function before starting a thread or just look through the dev blogs which adress those points.

I informed myself already, but this is not suggestions list, but more like a complete list of "core features" the PVP system should have. Some of these may have been addressed, some may not, that's not the point considering that they're still in early development, and they could still change their minds on a lot of stuff.

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I can agree with the first 2 points i

 

Safezones

- Safezones should exist, because you can't protect your assets 24/24 since it's a game, not RL. 

- Safezones should be rare, or the PVP will die. And if the PVP dies, economy, building, and the social aspect will follow.

I totally agree with this points.

 

- Safezones should be public. If there's a way to obtain a safezone by playing the game, this would be a feature that only huge and rich corporations would benefit.

I agree kind of, in terms of the game mechanic they should be public, but the ruling organization should be able to prevent you from entering and should be able to kill you if you have entered unauthorized.

 

And regarding the remainig points, no it would act against the targeted player-driven gameplay.

Simply if you want a bank, build it, if you can't defend it, you're screwed, end of the story.

The whole point of DU is "Here you have the tools, now go and do whatever you want" and would you add such things like renting territory tiles in a safezone with building limits from a NPC, it would destroy the game. At least in my opinion.

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I can agree with the first 2 points i

 

I totally agree with this points.

 

I agree kind of, in terms of the game mechanic they should be public, but the ruling organization should be able to prevent you from entering and should be able to kill you if you have entered unauthorized.

 

And regarding the remainig points, no it would act against the targeted player-driven gameplay.

Simply if you want a bank, build it, if you can't defend it, you're screwed, end of the story.

The whole point of DU is "Here you have the tools, now go and do whatever you want" and would you add such things like renting territory tiles in a safezone with building limits from a NPC, it would destroy the game. At least in my opinion.

 

 

As far as I know they intend to create a safezone for people that want to build safely without getting involved in PVP, it's not a suggestion of mine. Still i think that a complete anarchy would be bad, and I agree with this solution. A safezone should be intended as a social HUB(that you wouldn't have with anarchy), and everything else (building, farming, storing,...) should be limited. 

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As far as I know they intend to create a safezone for people that want to build safely without getting involved in PVP, it's not a suggestion of mine. Still i think that a complete anarchy would be bad, and I agree with this solution. A safezone should be intended as a social HUB(that you wouldn't have with anarchy), and everything else (building, farming, storing,...) should be limited. 

 

no, they intend to build a safezone around the beginners ark ship, but nowhere else. That doesnt serve as primary social hub or builders base, just a little protection for newbies before they step out into the space. Organzisations can "arktify" their land for a very high price, and probably not permanently, if you only want to build stuff and stay save then you can only do so in the virtual space.

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As far as I know they intend to create a safezone for people that want to build safely without getting involved in PVP, it's not a suggestion of mine. Still i think that a complete anarchy would be bad, and I agree with this solution. A safezone should be intended as a social HUB(that you wouldn't have with anarchy), and everything else (building, farming, storing,...) should be limited. 

Yes complete anarchy would be bad, but player organization forming already, to prevent this, for example the Cinderfall Syndicate and the Terran Union.

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Safezones

 

- Safezones should exist, because you can't protect your assets 24/24 since it's a game, not RL. 

- Safezones should be rare, or the PVP will die. And if the PVP dies, economy, building, and the social aspect will follow. 

- Safezones should be public. If there's a way to obtain a safezone by playing the game, this would be a feature that only huge and rich corporations would benefit. 

- Safezones should have banks to store your items and credits. But with a proper stargate system,where you can't just teleport everywhere anytime, you wouldn't have access to that so easily. Like EVE Online.

- Safezones should not be used for farming. If you want to mine or gather materials, there should be a risk associated with it, or the economy doesn't work. And this damages the PVP too. In a safezone you should be only able to find low level materials. If you want to make money, risk your ship. 

- Safezones should let people build, but only ships of a limited size, like 50x50x50. And you will have to rent the land.If you want to rent multiple lands, the price goes up exponentially like Everquest Landmark. If you want to build a huge ship, you would probably have a corporation able to defend your creation, otherwise as a solo player, you shouldn't probably drive that. You should be able to park your ship on the same land you rented, so you can be safe when you logoff. Ofc if you have a huge ship, you'll need a claimed land with "Territory control units", to land it safely.

- Safezones should be social HUB with recruiting, contracts, economy in mind. 

 

Safezones are 100% safe, so there's need to limit the amount of stuff you can hide there, build or farm. 

 

I agree completely that safe zones should exist, be rare, and be public.  Being public is especially important.  No entity should be able to have a claimed territory that is completely safe.  I also agree that there shouldn't be any rare resources in or around safe zones.  Ideally they would have no strategic value of any kind, inconvenient even, other than the fact that they are destruction free.

 

I'm not sure anything needs to be said about banks in safe zones.  Players should be able to build facilities with locks on them.  In a safe zone such a facility would be accessible only to players with the correct permissions, and would otherwise be completely impenetrable.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about limiting the size of buildings and constructs... maybe.

 

Renting the land is an interesting idea.  There is a potential issue with safe zone land running out, or becoming clutered with unused, indestructible buildings.  But who are you paying the rent to?  And what happens if you stop paying?  It's supposed to be a completely safe place so the punishment for not paying rent is not really clear.

 

 

Territory Control

 

A land you own, as some kind of safety features. Ofc you shouldn't lose all your empire overnight, it doesn't make sense. So there's need for time window where the land is vulnerable, and i would create a system wimilar to the one EVE Online has. 

 

Land claimed can be attacked under certain circumstances, but you can build bigger, farm precious stuff, deposit all the items and ships you want.

 

A system similar to Eve has been mentioned by NQ, but what I wouldn't want to see is claimed territory being protected by some bubble that keeps trespassers out automatically.  I want to see the possibility for small groups to squat on other organisations' land, or wage guerilla warfare that doesn't require a full frontal assault.  Only the Territory Unit should be protected from immediate destruction with a timer, so you can't lose your claim on the land while you're asleep.

 

 

Outlaw

 

They cannot attack safezones

They cannot use safezones

They should be able to attack claimed territories easier than "legal" commanders. 

They should be able to claim a territory ( for managing purposes inside their group) but they should not have any kind of protection nor time window of vulnerability. they should always be vulnerable. 

They should be really low on ships/resources, in a way that they would never want to grief a building for fun, but just open a small hole, and steal what you can. 

Automated defenses that a player can build on his territory, should give outlaws a real challenge, so that they would not just grief and destroy everything they see. 

 

I disagree that there should be any mechanic that makes players outlawed by the game.  Define an outlaw?  Outlawed by whom?  This game is pure PvP, pure player-led.  If safe zones are public, who is it that has outlawed a player?  Organisation should be able to label other entities as "outlaws" or any other label they see fit.  They can then define how their own players and automated constructs react to those players.  Other than that I disagree that there should be any official definition for an "outlawed" player, or that there should be any mechanics that make them different from "law-abiding" citizens.

 

 

Organzisations can "arktify" their land for a very high price, and probably not permanently, if you only want to build stuff and stay save then you can only do so in the virtual space.

 

Arkification isn't confirmed yet and when NQ were talking about it they explicitly said that it would not be intended to be a benefit for large or rich organisations.  They also said that it would have to be permanent for it to be meaningful.

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I found those infos here, what's your source?

 

https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2016/02/20/builder-gameplay-voxel-tools-elements/

 

Building is a very time consuming activity to bear fruits, we are very well aware of this. It is also something many players practice as a relaxing activity. So if a builder wants to build without risking being attacked by a PvP player, he will have the opportunity to do it in non-PvP, secure areas. Right from the beginning, there will be a secure area of several kilometers around the Arkship (the in-game starting point). Beyond the safety of the Arkship, as players explore the universe, we are currently evaluating other possibilities for additional secure areas in the game to protect builders and their creations, as the number of players in game grows and they spread across the universe.

 

 

Personally I don't care, I just want a social HUB, and a tutorial-like safezone for newbies to start safely. 

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Arkification isn't confirmed yet and when NQ were talking about it they explicitly said that it would not be intended to be a benefit for large or rich organisations.  They also said that it would have to be permanent for it to be meaningful.

 

with not permanent i meant its not like set up & forget, it'll most likely have an upkeep or something alike.

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Pve player should learn that pvp is at their doorstep,Yes we need to protect them but not make them invinsible.Just imagine an arkified area in perfect shape but out of it a giant hole or holes because their clan lost a war or conflict.

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