Territory Control

[Archonious]

Hi,

 

As many of you know, Developers started Kickstarter program to get some investment to their project. There are lots of information about game features, but I would like to speak about "Territory Control".

 

 

It could be very interesting aspect of the game. Information about this part of the game is very small:
"Territory Control is about securing land on planet grounds, for strategic, economic or safety reasons. Owning a territory is done via the deployment of a Territory Unit, which will grant you or your organization rights to control who can do what in the 1 km wide hexagonal tile associated to it. With territory comes battles, and the need to protect, federate resources and defenses. We will introduce Safe Zones, in particular around the arkship, for more peaceful territory ownership and role play."

 

Territory unit is the great idea of NQ. no doubt. But just because information is very small, let's speak about addition secure it can bring. I played 1000+ hours in the game called Space Engineers. An idea of the game is very similar, so I very often make a projection on this game.

There is a big problem for planetary building - digging under the base. So there is no any defense (except using bugs, which is not a solution). Players simply can not protect base well from that, so base become an easy target for any player (especially if the base owner is offline). As result of that, building on planets is very unpopular.

How to solve it (IMO). I'm sure if Territory Unit will protect the territory from any terraformation (for enemies) in it range, it will prevent any kind of digging abuse. So enemies will need attack base/city with traditional ways (in other words, play game as it should be). In the end, both sides will have a chance to fail attack or defense.

 

It can look unreal, but we speaking about the game, we speak about example, which already broke a lot of fun in other game.

 

P.S: It is not Safe Zone, this is way, how to protect ground buildings from "No Risk" destruction. Players will have options to attack with vehicles, ships or with a weapon in their hands.

 

Thanks,

Archonious

[GrandMaster Apex]

I think NQ have said that you would need permissions to be able to edit within a controlled territory and they plan to make TCU's hard to make. Will be interesting to see though I'm sure they have thought it out they seem to have a good idea of the problems in many other games they are trying to avoid

[gyurka66]

Hi,

 

As many of you know, Developers started Kickstarter program to get some investment to their project. There are lots of information about game features, but I would like to speak about "Territory Control".

 

 

It could be very interesting aspect of the game. Information about this part of the game is very small:

"Territory Control is about securing land on planet grounds, for strategic, economic or safety reasons. Owning a territory is done via the deployment of a Territory Unit, which will grant you or your organization rights to control who can do what in the 1 km wide hexagonal tile associated to it. With territory comes battles, and the need to protect, federate resources and defenses. We will introduce Safe Zones, in particular around the arkship, for more peaceful territory ownership and role play."

 

Territory unit is the great idea of NQ. no doubt. But just because information is very small, let's speak about addition secure it can bring. I played 1000+ hours in the game called Space Engineers. An idea of the game is very similar, so I very often make a projection on this game.

There is a big problem for planetary building - digging under the base. So there is no any defense (except using bugs, which is not a solution). Players simply can not protect base well from that, so base become an easy target for any player (especially if the base owner is offline). As result of that, building on planets is very unpopular.

How to solve it (IMO). I'm sure if Territory Unit will protect the territory from any terraformation (for enemies) in it range, it will prevent any kind of digging abuse. So enemies will need attack base/city with traditional ways (in other words, play game as it should be). In the end, both sides will have a chance to fail attack or defense.

 

It can look unreal, but we speaking about the game, we speak about example, which already broke a lot of fun in other game.

 

P.S: It is not Safe Zone, this is way, how to protect ground buildings from "No Risk" destruction. Players will have options to attack with vehicles, ships or with a weapon in their hands.

 

Thanks,

Archonious

This is excatly what they plan.

[Violet]

It should disable the "matter manipulator hand" or what ever we are calling it but placing explosives or using rockets should still deform terrain.

[Archonious]

This is excatly what they plan.

Oh, really? That cool, I didn't read massive DevBlogs, not that easy translate everything.

 

 

It should disable the "matter manipulator hand" or what ever we are calling it but placing explosives or using rockets should still deform terrain.

But it won't change anything then... there would be same problem with digging under bases... Abuse is abuse, and it must be prevented...

[ATMLVE]

Something I know they've emphasized is that the ground and spaceships and buildings are all made of the same thing. They're just blocks, but the difference with the spaceship is that it has special blocks as well.

 

And along with that, the TCUs go all the way down as far as the world can be edited, to a point like 1 km above the surface. So it protects everything, and ensures that people can't find a way into your territory. And if someone trolls you and turns your territory into a plateau, you can always just rebuild the ground with dirt!

[Halo381]

Oh, really? That cool, I didn't read massive DevBlogs, not that easy translate everything.

 

 

But it won't change anything then... there would be same problem with digging under bases... Abuse is abuse, and it must be prevented...

 

But then takeover by military force becomes impossible. Just case your TCU in blocks and no one will be able to get to it because they can't use their explosives to blast it to bits. 

[GalloInfligo]

from what I have seen, they are saying that mining and building both have separate permissions to turn on or off for people.  So if mining is off, can we mine at all or does mining then flag us as an intruder?  

 

They said we can flag who can enter the territory as well but anyone can enter it it just flags you intruder if you don't have permission.  Also if your not allowed to you can open doors either, so you have to attack them with weapons to destroy them....

 

So yes finding the TCU is going to be hard especially if we can place it anywhere we want and not be confined to the center of our tile.  Then getting to it is also going to be hard.  I think thats the point though it shouldn't be easy to go take someones territory.

[Archonious]

But then takeover by military force becomes impossible. Just case your TCU in blocks and no one will be able to get to it because they can't use their explosives to blast it to bits.

 

Simple voxel own system separation. Player voxels (buildings, ships, vehicles) destructable, surrounded voxels (ground, rocks) indestructable (for no selected part of players).

 

If to leave holes in game, players will easy find and start abuse them. I hope there would be st least few alpha testers who will test, so we can try as more as possible.

[RightBigToe]

Oh, really? That cool, I didn't read massive DevBlogs, not that easy translate everything.

 

 

But it won't change anything then... there would be same problem with digging under bases... Abuse is abuse, and it must be prevented...

 

Digging a hole to get to your enemies base is not considered abuse, and is even mentioned as a legitimate strategy by the devs in the dev blogs.  As someone mentioned above however, if you own a territory (or have the correct rights to it) you can restrict the ability to other entities to mine or enter your territory.  Being able to restrict the ability to mine should be able to resolve your primary concern of people tunneling under your base.  What has not been mentioned yet is how entities (players/organizations) are actually restricted from entering a territory, is there a big digital wall surrounding your territory (Second Life), or are you tagged for trespassing in a way that makes you easily targettable by defenses, we simply dont know yet.

 

Considering outside of the arkship's safe zone it is supposed to be a bit of a free-for-all PvP area, I cannot imagine that people would be physically blocked from entering a territory they are not permitted to enter. As you also mentioned, if you are mining yourself and accidentally leave a hole to your base in the landscape, that is your fault for not closing it off.

[Violet]

Here's an idea, perhaps the TCU needs to see the sky so that it can project a shield. This would prevent people from burying it underground at least.

[Lethys]

Here's an idea, perhaps the TCU needs to see the sky so that it can project a shield. This would prevent people from burying it underground at least.

Well if you see that shield of some sort (like I imagine it now), then it would be pointless

 

If its an invisible shield and lets say just a switch from "neutral Land" to "xyz's Land", then it can't be detected THAT easily (but nonetheless its not that hard)

[Wicpar]

i think tile based territory control is quite limited... it assumes too fast overpopulation and concurrency. I think an influence system could allow to replace it more efficiently and create more war-like territory control:

 

You place an influence generator that generates an expanding area of influence, that decreases in intensity with distance. You can make it stringer/faster with tech or fueling it. you therefore can assume control of a planet. but:

 

you can place influence generators and only those in the influence areas of enemies (you have to be enemies) and the one that has the most influence on a terrain block can edit/ build on it. This would allow for armies to secure a zone, place multiple influence generators and build an outpost that will serve to push back the enemies influence until they can invade their base and destroy the generator.

 

I really think this would be way more practical and fun as it would allow you to protect an entire homeworld from degradation/griefers so you don't find yourself like this:

 

 

surrouned by a big hole.

 

But this idea comes from strategy games like galactic civilization 3 and stellaris.

 

what do you think of it?

[Archonious]

Digging a hole to get to your enemies base is not considered abuse, and is even mentioned as a legitimate strategy by the devs in the dev blogs. 

I hope, they didn't realise how much negative is that for players. And hope, they gonna change their mind in future. At least that would be shown in Alpha-Tests.

[Violet]

Build your base on struts! Problem solved

 

[RightBigToe]

I hope, they didn't realise how much negative is that for players. And hope, they gonna change their mind in future. At least that would be shown in Alpha-Tests.

 

I think you missed my point where I mentioned that without the right to mine on your territory, it likely wont be physically possible.

[GalloInfligo]

I think you missed my point where I mentioned that without the right to mine on your territory, it likely wont be physically possible.

I don't know about this, if you set the flag to not allow entry into your territory, they can still enter it and just get flagged as an intruder.  So whats to say that if you don't have mining permissions, and you mine anyways, it just flags you as a claim jumper/thief/intruder.

[RightBigToe]

I don't know about this, if you set the flag to not allow entry into your territory, they can still enter it and just get flagged as an intruder.  So whats to say that if you don't have mining permissions, and you mine anyways, it just flags you as a claim jumper/thief/intruder.

 

I understand your confusion.  Unfortunately it is not clear how these mechanics will work at this time and will be fleshed out through alpha, but my understanding is that the exception will be the ability to enter territories that you are not allowed to, as other combat would be impossible.  As opposed to the rule that if you dont have the right to perform an activity (such as mining) you are simply disallowed.

 

Hopefully the interview by Dual Universe Explorers this weekend will answer this question.

[GalloInfligo]

yes I am looking forward to these answers, and see how the TCU works, can we bury it, does it have to be in the center of the hex etc...  

[RightBigToe]

yes I am looking forward to these answers, and see how the TCU works, can we bury it, does it have to be in the center of the hex etc...  

 

They did mention in the dev blog that it can be underground, and it definitely does not have to be at the center. In fact they said you can centralize several (assuming adjacent territories) TCUs at one location.

[GalloInfligo]

Yeah i read all that too.

[DaSchiz]