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Death and consequences


caravaggio2000

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I was wondering what people's thoughts were on death and consequences in the game. When you die, should you just respawn somewhere with no consequences? Should your ship blow up and be left to rubble?

 

Personally, I like the idea of permadeath, but I know many won't.

 

 

 

Perma-death is a very fine subject, but I think the loss of all your work may be damning enough, maybe even a drop in skills or something. But even that still seems to harsh :P 

 

Death is just a razor thin ice discussion regardless as people don't like it either way it goes, as for myself, I honestly don't care as long as I can keep playing the game. If you lose everything on you, then so be it. Loss is a thing people will have to get used to in this game I'm sure. 

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Talking about death it is importatnt to know if we are limited to one charakter or can play multiple ones (see Wow OR Guild Wars) if we can play multiple ones perma death or a skill loss would indeed be a nice mechanic, but if we are limited to only one charakter the loss of our work could be damaging enough.

 

Maybe the game also takes the approach Space Engineers tried (and failed) that you can place respawn station, that heal you and that you use to respawn and if you have no more stations to respawn all ships that you own arent owned by you anymore.

Dual Universe could do this by removing your faction tags and affiliation or/and even forcing you to take a new ingame name which would mean that if you dont respawn at your own medical/respawn station you are considered a new charakter.

 

I hope it doesnt turn into a arcade like system where death isnt punished and only a mediocre annoyance...

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When you die, your will spawn back at wherever the nearest accessible resurrection pod is. That will likely be back at the arkship for quite a while in game. After time, you might make your own pod, maybe on your ship where you died, but that will require huge quantities of resources and power to maintain, plus a potentially significant recharge time for the pod. You will also lose some of your resource inventory likely, due to the differences in the other multi dimensional self that was resurrected.

 

But my main point: Once you are dead, it is very likely that whoever killed you will likely scavenge everything you had at that moment, and the only thing left there of your base and ship will be a few piles of dirt.

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When you die, your will spawn back at wherever the nearest accessible resurrection pod is. That will likely be back at the arkship for quite a while in game. After time, you might make your own pod, maybe on your ship where you died, but that will require huge quantities of resources and power to maintain, plus a potentially significant recharge time for the pod. You will also lose some of your resource inventory likely, due to the differences in the other multi dimensional self that was resurrected.

 

But my main point: Once you are dead, it is very likely that whoever killed you will likely scavenge everything you had at that moment, and the only thing left there of your base and ship will be a few piles of dirt.

 

 

I think that Death Need to be punishing. If that means loosing a lot when the player dies thanks to your items being scavenged before you get back to the place of death..... I think that this is the best way to go. This should in theory decrease the amount of senseless killing in some ways and support proper piracy.

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Death in my opinion should only make the player lose the items they currently had with them. These items would then be dropped and made lootable by others. As to respawning I agree with the idea of having respawn pods which players could create or capture for their personal use. These respawn pods would then become objectives for anyone who wants to prevent you from coming back to regain your stuff.

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If you have Perma death, all skills and unlocks etc must last though that...

If Loot only gets lost on death then it would be costly, and should force safer gameplay from people and be a lot more rewarding to open dialog... 

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Basically if the loot a player has is valuable, then that player's life also gains value. This reflects real life where the rich are made targets by thieves and hired killers.

Yes but in real life the rich born get punished if they die... because they die

In a game the guy who dies should at least have some consequences, it would be quite boring if the freighter im robbing rams me because his death doesnt matter

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Death in many games means nothing. That makes people bold and they do dumb things and make enemies that aren't necessary. So Death needs meaning. I suggest that you might re-spawn somewhere but whatever you had when you die is gone, period. Your ships, meaning in the beginning you get thrown back into a starter ship, as in  most games. The cargo you were carrying goes with the ship. If the enemy is under stress and has to run too then the cargo gets added to a 'salvageable loot' system, and if you make it back out there you can get it, or someone closer can, either way it doesn't just disappear, not without some time passing.

 

Death has to have meaning, or the game becomes a yank fest and gets boring or upsets people soo bad they leave.

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What about items in the bank or that you have on the market? Would those also disappear upon death or only those items you have with you?

I don't think it would work if your items just "disppeared". That destroys realism and makes it harder for looters when they only get a fraction of what they were after.

 

 

Yes but in real life the rich born get punished if they die... because they die

In a game the guy who dies should at least have some consequences, it would be quite boring if the freighter im robbing rams me because his death doesnt matter

 

Death will definitely matter if people take advantage of the fact that you are temporarily not around to defend your things. They could steal your ship or blow up the building you were trying to defend. What I'm saying is that death does matter a lot if you have something to lose. Something like a reduction of your skills would also help make it not worth dying. Long respawn timers could also have an effect, with more experienced players having much longer wait times in comparison to new inexperienced players. Attacking innocents will be far less rewarding than targeting known individuals in this system, making the game harder the more you play it by raising the stakes.

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I don't think it would work if your items just "disppeared". That destroys realism and makes it harder for looters when they only get a fraction of what they were after.

 

 

 

Death will definitely matter if people take advantage of the fact that you are temporarily not around to defend your things. They could steal your ship or blow up the building you were trying to defend. What I'm saying is that death does matter a lot if you have something to lose. Something like a reduction of your skills would also help make it not worth dying. Long respawn timers could also have an effect, with more experienced players having much longer wait times in comparison to new inexperienced players. Attacking innocents will be far less rewarding than targeting known individuals in this system, making the game harder the more you play it by raising the stakes.

 

I'm all about the consequences and I don't mind if I lose everything or some portion of it (including skills, etc.), but I hate respawn timers. If you have all day to play it isn't a big deal, but when you only have a limited playing time, having to wait 15 minutes or whatever to  get back into the game stinks.

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I'm all about the consequences and I don't mind if I lose everything or some portion of it (including skills, etc.), but I hate respawn timers. If you have all day to play it isn't a big deal, but when you only have a limited playing time, having to wait 15 minutes or whatever to  get back into the game stinks.

There you go, the perfect incentive not to die. Timerz fer evaryone! Also the reason why I suggested scaling the time to the experience a player has in the game, is to not discourage newer players from trying new risky things. 

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I am actually pretty pleased with the way death works within the current lore. When you die, you are resurrected at the nearest arkship. 

 

Whats the motivation to not die? Having to start far away from where you left all your constructs. You might have to buy or build a new ship just to get back to where you died.

AFAIK, eventually, large organizations will be able to create their own resurrection technology, thus making it so you do not have to spawn so far away if you die.

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I think dying should have a reasonable penalty but there should be a way you can play with little risk to yourself.

namely for combat, why would you risk running into the enemy base with shotgun and pistol or into the depths of their fleet with a fighter when you could be safely in the heart of your capital ship?

 

I think it should be possible to remotely control small ships (with limited ability) or infantry "drones"

This may really enhance the amount of land battles and fighter squadrons, especially if members of an organization can join in from afar when they cant make it to the fleet battle.

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I am actually pretty pleased with the way death works within the current lore. When you die, you are resurrected at the nearest arkship. 

 

Whats the motivation to not die? Having to start far away from where you left all your constructs. You might have to buy or build a new ship just to get back to where you died.

AFAIK, eventually, large organizations will be able to create their own resurrection technology, thus making it so you do not have to spawn so far away if you die.

 

That's the problem though isn't it? Once you get powerful enough, there is no consequence.

 

Example: Hamster Group makes a large dreadnought and equips it with a resurrection pod. They go happily attacking knowing they will resurrect right in the middle of the battle where as their opponent  (if not so equipped) has to fly back from the middle of the galaxy.

 

Example: Hamster Group puts a resurrection pod in the middle of their base. No matter how hard Gerbil Group tried to take them out, they never can because the Hamster are respawning back in their own base, in the middle of the battle, and getting right back to it where the Gerbils have to fly back.

 

What about no death penalty to start, then a time out penalty for the middle levels, and then permadeath if you are at the cap?

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That's the problem though isn't it? Once you get powerful enough, there is no consequence.

 

Example: Hamster Group makes a large dreadnought and equips it with a resurrection pod. They go happily attacking knowing they will resurrect right in the middle of the battle where as their opponent  (if not so equipped) has to fly back from the middle of the galaxy.

 

Example: Hamster Group puts a resurrection pod in the middle of their base. No matter how hard Gerbil Group tried to take them out, they never can because the Hamster are respawning back in their own base, in the middle of the battle, and getting right back to it where the Gerbils have to fly back.

 

What about no death penalty to start, then a time out penalty for the middle levels, and then permadeath if you are at the cap?

 

I totally agree and here is what they are implementing to avoid this very problem :)  (taken from the short wiki post on Resurrection Nodes):

 

Resurrection Nodes (or RN) may be crafted and placed for personal use. You may set up several nodes in different places at the same time. When you die, the closest RN will be used to respawn you inside its pod. It will lose its charge in the process, so it cannot be reused on the spot.

Edited by Code24
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https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2014/07/06/quantum-immortality/

 

this is the devblog on the death. basically they are using quantum mechanics to explain why it is you can re-spawn. and because they are basically transporting your soul to another parallel universe or stealing yourself from a very similar universe you will lose some of your inventory and you will wake up basically naked at the closest registered resurrection node. in one universe you may have picked up a rock on the side of the road an in the other you didnt. so your new self doesnt that that rock basically 

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  • 3 years later...

In my opinion I think they should use a system like minecraft where all the loot on you is dropped so that people around you an take it but some of your loot can be stored in a container that is locked. That is a reward for killing people but not so big that people constantly attack rich people. The cargo also wouldnt be completely safe as during a large raid people could take a risk with expensive equipment to steal from the container.

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Things would be easy:

 

When you die you respawn at your defined respawn point(s). The attacker (if any) get some points e.g. at a Battle Board/Ranking System... whatsoever)

 

In PvP there should also be a ranking system for the attacker when they attack in groups/a single target, or in protected areas attacking someone who marks them as outlaws, or preventing them to visit public places or markets. A justice system like in Archage would be cool too, so the bad guy has to stand trial and players can vote "guilty" or "not guilty" and send them to jail. A jail could be a planet with some increased hazards to flee from or extensive travel time to get back to a normal system again. Something like that...

 

About loot:

Pirates can have the salvage from a wreckage what drops in parts and via RNG, but not my cargo or player inventory. Cargo drops in secure containers.

No one should be able to loot my cargo or inventory beause as I am a paying customer this would at least qualifiy as digital theft. After all it cost my subscription to gather resources.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/7/2020 at 4:53 AM, FredyKyong said:

 

About loot:

Pirates can have the salvage from a wreckage what drops in parts and via RNG, but not my cargo or player inventory. Cargo drops in secure containers.

No one should be able to loot my cargo or inventory beause as I am a paying customer this would at least qualifiy as digital theft. After all it cost my subscription to gather resources.

I don't think that's correct, or else factions servers and the like wouldn't exist on games like minecraft, since you have to buy the game to play on the server, but that dousn't mean you cant be looted or banned

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Yeah like just about any other game with inventories, you own nothing in the game, it all belongs to NQ. You're just paying for the service to play the game.

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