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Stargates: Functionality?


AlexWright

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Alright, bear with me here for a minute.

 

Of all of the forms of travel that are currently mentioned in DevBlogs or here on the forums from the devs themselves, Stargates most piqued my interest. As I will be leading an expeditionary fleet out into the far-flung regions of space, how could they not? My comments, and questions, are directed mainly at their functionality. In part, because to be functional is their main use, but also because I am attempting to sort all of this out in my head to have a plan to execute and go forward with. Or, at the very least, aspirations.

 

So, there are a few ways that stargates could function in this game, let's go over that here.

 

1. Stationary Stargates, One Point to Many Points.

This would basically function like the Stargates in the famous TV series (SG1, Atlantis, Universe). You attempt to dial in random sequences of numbers, letters, etc. This would mean that each stargate would have a unique "ID" or "Key" that would then link to the "network" of gates around the universe. Handy, true, but also impractical. Think about it, if this were the way stargates worked in DU, anyone could stage an entire fleet around a single stargate, and invade anywhere, at anytime, without notice at any gate within the network, so long as they knew the unique ID of that gate. This lacks security, unless there could be built in security measures (Shields, Irises, etc). Not only that, but this would be extremely complicated to pull off.

 

2. Stationary Stargates, One Point to One Point

Essentially, stargate "pairs". Gate #13156 can only connect to Gate #25719, and only after the two gates have been paired together. These could be small installations for use by personnel (As a Normal Gate would be), as most are on the aforementioned show, or extremely large superstructures (Think Ori Supergates). This would mean you could plant one on a planet (and heavily fortify it), and have one on a command ship somewhere else for simple personnel transport; or you could build two massive superstructures to move your entire fleet around at once.

 

3. Mobile Stargates, One Point to Many or One Point

The same as above, only mobile once placed and activated.

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I think it's fair to say that stargate usage will likely be tied in with other potential forms of fast travel. In that regard this will be both my suggestion to NovaQuark and my theorycrafting.

 

 Stargates be location to location. If they were to require a renewable fuel source or just energy perhaps from a reactor that would be good. I imagine these gates to function like an interstate system to get from one far away place to another very quickly.

Nobody is going to want to just build a Stargate they will likely be very expensive and I assume they will be high maintenance, either in activity fees paid to the game or that people might be able to attack them or attempt to salvage them for the valuable parts.

Also, you have to be relatively sure of the safety on both ends of the gate. Lest you have the gate stolen, or get campers.

Sure some rogue guild can and probably will build a stargate network to the middle of nowhere, gates may or may not have an indefinite range, but if they have to build multiple gates its as good as null.sec in e.v.e Pirate heaven. Jolly Rogers, Davy Jones Cake Shop. After they gobble up some shipment, theyll tear down your gates too, if they can.

Thanks to the RDMS and Tags whoever owns the Gate might decide to bar certain people from using them, or apply any number of conditions for its usage.

 

It's hard to say what Novaquark will do, they are being very cloak and dagger about how FTL will work thus far. What I can say from a pure game balance perspective.

 

1.) Warp / Alcubierre drives for moving around a star system.

 

2.) Stargates for getting between two industrially developed places quickly.

 

3.) Jump Drives, FTL for moving to more or less specific locations, and which have already been explored.

 

If I were NovaQuark right now. I would be looking for a way to prevent people from leaving Alioth too quickly. If people expand too fast and the game doesn't have a massive population in the beginning, it may or may not look bad its hard to say.

So what would I do make the engines require a fuel source. It would need to be renewable just in case it takes a long time for players to get it together and build stargates and bases on other worlds than Alioth.

 

It also limits how far one ship can travel into the void forcing the servers to generate new content that it has to keep track of indefinitely even though just one random crew decided to drive through.

It could help to balance out other gameplay aspects.

 

Perhaps the Warp drives would be very expensive to make, and make being an explorer that much more valuable. Warp drives being very very fuel efficient, and thus having a larger range to move with the trade off being the time it takes.

 

Jump Drives be very cheap but very fuel inefficient and have a limited range.

Stargates can be whatever in this scenario.

 

If the exploration ship goes out into the universe and finds an interesting planet to colonize and then drops a beacon, or buoy which pings in the same way the resurrection nodes are supposed to and gives the other ships a coordinate to lock onto. The owner of that beacon might with the tags set it to be only allies or guild-mates etc that are allowed to go there, or set it to public. who knows.

If you only had one of the jump drives you wouldn't want to just jump to any public place, you might get pirated held hostage or just trolled and get stranded out there and not have enough fuel to get back unless you conveniently pay the pirates with a tanker filled with fuel to leave.

 

Another thing on the gates, while I doubt they will allow mobile gates, or stargate sg1 style stargates, I wonder if the travel will be instant, and if they will allow for emergency exit from stargate travel. Either as a means of escaping imminent doom from a camp that you are warned of by some guild. And or as a indirect means of stopping halfway on the journey. You could build two gates, and have it lead seemingly nowhere, but have a secret facility you have to emergency stop to find for instance.

Welp, got carried away with the length again

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Alright, bear with me here for a minute.

 

Of all of the forms of travel that are currently mentioned in DevBlogs or here on the forums from the devs themselves, Stargates most piqued my interest. As I will be leading an expeditionary fleet out into the far-flung regions of space, how could they not? My comments, and questions, are directed mainly at their functionality. In part, because to be functional is their main use, but also because I am attempting to sort all of this out in my head to have a plan to execute and go forward with. Or, at the very least, aspirations.

 

So, there are a few ways that stargates could function in this game, let's go over that here.

 

1. Stationary Stargates, One Point to Many Points.

This would basically function like the Stargates in the famous TV series (SG1, Atlantis, Universe). You attempt to dial in random sequences of numbers, letters, etc. This would mean that each stargate would have a unique "ID" or "Key" that would then link to the "network" of gates around the universe. Handy, true, but also impractical. Think about it, if this were the way stargates worked in DU, anyone could stage an entire fleet around a single stargate, and invade anywhere, at anytime, without notice at any gate within the network, so long as they knew the unique ID of that gate. This lacks security, unless there could be built in security measures (Shields, Irises, etc). Not only that, but this would be extremely complicated to pull off.

 

2. Stationary Stargates, One Point to One Point

Essentially, stargate "pairs". Gate #13156 can only connect to Gate #25719, and only after the two gates have been paired together. These could be small installations for use by personnel (As a Normal Gate would be), as most are on the aforementioned show, or extremely large superstructures (Think Ori Supergates). This would mean you could plant one on a planet (and heavily fortify it), and have one on a command ship somewhere else for simple personnel transport; or you could build two massive superstructures to move your entire fleet around at once.

 

3. Mobile Stargates, One Point to Many or One Point

The same as above, only mobile once placed and activated.

 

 

Personally I would love a true dial system, the way SG1 implemented it or even specific codes to access the gates, essentially creating your own private network. This would be great since they are supposed to be expensive. This way you would have one per location and not have to set up half a dozen at a hub. But either way, you are looking at an end to end system. Meaning you have to travel there first and set one up on either end for them to be useful, making them useless for an explorer.

 

Now a fling gate would be nice. It would be one that launches you in a direction for a given distance and dumps you out with no return, but I doubt that will be the system they use. Youll have to use some other means of FTL for that. 

 

 

 

 

 

Another thing on the gates, while I doubt they will allow mobile gates, or stargate sg1 style stargates, I wonder if the travel will be instant, and if they will allow for emergency exit from stargate travel. Either as a means of escaping imminent doom from a camp that you are warned of by some guild. And or as a indirect means of stopping halfway on the journey. You could build two gates, and have it lead seemingly nowhere, but have a secret facility you have to emergency stop to find for instance.

Welp, got carried away with the length again

 

 

It depends on the stargate lore/technology. If it is a true wormhole, while you do have some travel time it is virtually instantaneous and no way to back out. 

 

However I hope for the warp drive or other FTL means they give us that we can drop out. I hated that in EVE you could not drop out of warp mid warp, even if you have a 2min warp ahead of you. If you can be interdicted you should be able to drop out of it. 

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Of all of the forms of travel that are currently mentioned in DevBlogs or here on the forums from the devs themselves, Stargates most piqued my interest. As I will be leading an expeditionary fleet out into the far-flung regions of space, how could they not? My comments, and questions, are directed mainly at their functionality. In part, because to be functional is their main use, but also because I am attempting to sort all of this out in my head to have a plan to execute and go forward with. Or, at the very least, aspirations.

 

i think i will have to dissapoint you there, stargates, if they exist, will have to be built by players, that means explortion has to be done with other FTL-devices. So it wont be as in the tv-show where you travel to long lost places with the stargates, you can only "discover" places which other persons already visited and deemed to be worth it to start heavy development o that system, because stargates will be extremely expensive.

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i think i will have to dissapoint you there, stargates, if they exist, will have to be built by players, that means explortion has to be done with other FTL-devices. So it wont be as in the tv-show where you travel to long lost places with the stargates, you can only "discover" places which other persons already visited and deemed to be worth it to start heavy development o that system, because stargates will be extremely expensive.

I think you missed the main point I was attempting to make. I wasn't discussing a network or prefab stargates. I was discussing how they might work once they're built. For instance, could I carry one Stargate aboard a ship, and have it linked to a gate on some planet elsewhere in the universe? This would allow easy transfer of personnel onto the ship at any time, as well as provide a logistics hub and exit for players who get bored of far flung exploration.

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ah, just as support line, guess i really misunderstood u there then. Would certainly be interesting, even tho its probably still not worth the effort^^

Indeed! As I said earlier, depending on how these devices could be manipulated, it may even be possible to do certain...not so nice things to people, especially people you don't want using your gate.

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i think i will have to dissapoint you there, stargates, if they exist, will have to be built by players, that means explortion has to be done with other FTL-devices. So it wont be as in the tv-show where you travel to long lost places with the stargates, you can only "discover" places which other persons already visited and deemed to be worth it to start heavy development o that system, because stargates will be extremely expensive.

 

Hey Vylqun,

 

Would you please cite your source that Stargates will ONLY be built by players?

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Indeed! As I said earlier, depending on how these devices could be manipulated, it may even be possible to do certain...not so nice things to people, especially people you don't want using your gate.

I would just build one near a popular noob/trade space that send them to a death trap. Just an area in deep space loaded with turrets to destroy them. 

 

I mean I would never do that, and havent ever done that in a game before. 

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Hey Vylqun,

 

Would you please cite your source that Stargates will ONLY be built by players?

 

It was said that every structure used by players will be built by players, except for the archeships.

As for the scource, i dont exactly know when/where i read it and i'm certainly to lazy to search for it :)

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It was said that every structure used by players will be built by players, except for the archeships.

As for the scource, i dont exactly know when/where i read it and i'm certainly to lazy to search for it :)

Although I must Say that there is the rumoured 'alien ruins' that we don't know about yet and they could be arksite/StarGates or anything. So I wouldn't totally write off StarGates being previous.

 

Like I said in another post, 'need' alioths' could be server wide events that open up 'npc' StarGates to widen the starter zone or available starting point t for exploring the universe :).

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Whenever NQ has mentioned stargates it has usually been with a casual "that players can build" thrown in, but nothing explicitly saying that they're definitely won't be any pre-existing ones. However it would be in keeping with the general direction that NQ are taking the game.

 

Personally I don't get the appeal in stargates. They suck the fun out of exploration and if overpowered compared to other travel are too much of a superweapon. If they are player built only, single point to single point, limited in range and capability, and are destructible, then they are fine.

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Whenever NQ has mentioned stargates it has usually been with a casual "that players can build" thrown in, but nothing explicitly saying that they're definitely won't be any pre-existing ones. However it would be in keeping with the general direction that NQ are taking the game.

 

Personally I don't get the appeal in stargates. They suck the fun out of exploration and if overpowered compared to other travel are too much of a superweapon. If they are player built only, single point to single point, limited in range and capability, and are destructible, then they are fine.

I suppose it could go both ways there..

 

If there's a Stargate it means it's been explored enough by players to build one or find one and reconstruct it, so you should explore elsewhere.

 

And also, it gives you the chance to explore elsewhere, instead of following in the step of the 1000 people that left the planet before you, or scattered faster.

 

Either way, if that are or are not player made only, I have faith NQ will do it right, from what 'i have seen' they are doing everything right :)

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Stargates would be sick, no other MMO actually has them as depicted like in the films and shows. 

 

Space engineers actually has a mod that puts them in and they work exactly like the show with the bubbles and everything. :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

what i wonder is if there are "person" sized jumpgates?

gates where no ship fits through but only small personal craft and pedestians.

 

Considering how much material would be necessary to even build a stargate to begin with, I'm going to assume there won't be "person"-sized jumpgates. 

 

We don't know how they intend for stargate mechanics to work, whether stargates drop you in "hyperspace" to be able to fly around to any other stargate you want to, or whether stargates will need to correspond to specific other gates (A<->B but not B->C). With that bit of information, we would be able to have a somewhat clearer picture of how they intend them to be used, and perhaps even how big they will be. 

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Considering how much material would be necessary to even build a stargate to begin with, I'm going to assume there won't be "person"-sized jumpgates. 

 

i suspect the amount of materials is dependent on the size of the gate, so "how much" is pretty relative 

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I like Babylon 5 style gates...

 

 

Gates allow entrance and exit to Hyperspace.

Large enough ships which can generate the large amounts of power need can have Jump engines to do the same thing.

 

Travel through Hyperspace with regular engines to any other gate.  But since you are using your engines to travel... that limits how far you can get before you have to jump back out to real space and resupply.

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what would that do in terms of additional gameplay compared to BSG like jump drives?

range limitations work with that as well, and doesnt need a whole parallel universe to be implemented in the game

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what would that do in terms of additional gameplay compared to BSG like jump drives?

range limitations work with that as well, and doesnt need a whole parallel universe to be implemented in the game

 

Creates trade routes and trade hubs by virtue of a gate existing there.

 

Encourages Carrier type ships.

 

One large ship can let the medium class fleet in and out.

 

Creates choke points where the vast majority of ships must go through to access hyperspace.

 

Fleets can stand by in hyperspace ready to jump out with no warning from many directions.  Scout ships or spies could be employed to transmit the optimum spots for the fleets to jump into system.  That is if you have enough resources to afford many ships with jump drives.

 

Because a ship can go to any gate once it's in hyperspace It basically means it has escaped.  You'd have to have agents waiting at all the other gates in its range watching for it...

 

You can see the 2 other threads about this subject to see my more complete description of how it all works.

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/745-ftl-jump-drives/

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/717-the-hyperspace-mechanics-of-stargate-travel/

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Creates trade routes and trade hubs by virtue of a gate existing there.

 

Encourages Carrier type ships.

 

One large ship can let the medium class fleet in and out.

 

Creates choke points where the vast majority of ships must go through to access hyperspace.

 

Fleets can stand by in hyperspace ready to jump out with no warning from many directions.  Scout ships or spies could be employed to transmit the optimum spots for the fleets to jump into system.  That is if you have enough resources to afford many ships with jump drives.

 

Because a ship can go to any gate once it's in hyperspace It basically means it has escaped.  You'd have to have agents waiting at all the other gates in its range watching for it...

 

and that doesnt work with instant transfer jump mechanics... why?

 

trade hubs because theres one or more gates there (depending on gates being fixed pairs or any to any)

 

carriers having use by supplying independent interstellar jump capabilities.

 

choke points because most ships have to use gates

 

ships can wait in systems or deep space around the target, waiting for jump-in coordinates

 

 

i dont see why you would need the parallel dimension for all that.

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and that doesnt work with instant transfer jump mechanics... why?

 

trade hubs because theres one or more gates there (depending on gates being fixed pairs or any to any)

 

carriers having use by supplying independent interstellar jump capabilities.

 

choke points because most ships have to use gates

 

ships can wait in systems or deep space around the target, waiting for jump-in coordinates

 

 

i dont see why you would need the parallel dimension for all that.

 

Yep an extremely expensive to build stationary any to any gate that 90% of all ships have to use to get in and out of hyperspace and which ships will have to refuel near to continue their journey create trade hubs by virtue how rare they are.  Also how hazardous hyperspace is...

 

If you can just jump anywhere... space is huge and there wouldn't be any driving force to get people to gather any particular place.

 

The ability to punch your own way into hyperspace is expensive and most ships can't do it.  But is extremely important to a military... as you don't want your fleet stuck in hyperspace if someone shuts down or destroys the gate.  So build a lot of small fighters and a carrier for them is a cost effective way to gain that ability.

 

yep choke points because most ships have to use the gates.  what's your question?

 

If you're waiting in system or in deep space... you're visible.  Also how will you communicate your deep space location to your other ships to meet up?  a beacon? transmission? that's detectable and locate-able even if encrypted. 

 

please go read the other posts... I go into detail on how it all works... I even link videos... and I don't want to type all out again... or just copy and past everything here.

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Yep an extremely expensive to build stationary any to any gate that 90% of all ships have to use to get in and out of hyperspace and which ships will have to refuel near to continue their journey create trade hubs by virtue how rare they are.

 

If you can just jump anywhere... space is huge and there wouldn't be any driving force to get people to gather any particular place.

 

The ability to punch your own way into hyperspace is expensive and most ships can't do it.  But is extremely important to a military... as you don't want your fleet stuck in hyperspace if someone shuts down or destroys the gate.  So build a lot of small fighters and a carrier for them is a cost effective way to gain that ability.

 

yep choke points because most ships have to use the gates.  what's your question?

 

If you're waiting in system or in deep space... you're visible.  Also how will you communicate your deep space location to your other ships to meet up?  a beacon? transmission? that's detectable and locate-able even if encrypted. 

 

please go read the other posts... I go into detail on how it all works... I even link videos... and I don't want to type all out again... or just copy and past everything here.

 

 

and again: why does that whole concept need explicitly traversable hyperspace?

as in "i have to pilot my ship through there"

 

most ships have to use gates with or without hyperspace

 

ships with a "hole puncher" can jump anywhere into space with or without hyperspace

either by flying there in HS and then jumping out, or just *poof*ing there from a starting point

 

if you can do a precise jump to a position you can agree on one beforehand, so meeting up close to the target is no problem.

and you have to transmit data either way, for the ships waiting in HS or the ships waiting somewhere else, doesnt matter.

 

i read your suggestion, you dont have to repeat that i can read it   :P

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