Pre-created modules and player generated parts

[Slaxx]

so one thing that really nags me about DU is, if there is so much freedom, why do you not make it so that players could create their own modules based on a smaller pre-set of items.

 

im talking about being able to desing our own weapons & items too

 

but what i am getting at is instead of pre-creating for players things like pre-made turrets and machinery, you could make it so a player can create his own modules in a designer but WITHIN that designer there would be pre-set utilities.

 

so basically just moving the self-creation grid a level down.

 

is there a specific reason?

[Ripper]

So instead of a "size 1 laser cannon", maybe a scalable laser emitter?

 

The same would apply for gravity, propulsion, sensors, etc?

[Slaxx]

yeah basically that.

 

im talking like when you want to make an item you have some pre-made very simple things so you dont have to use a 3d model software. but then using these very simply things could let you enable to create things the same way you create a spaceship.

 

say you want to make a generator for a ship.

 

so there are basic essential things you HAVE to add in the editor, which could have different versions each too, so basically you make a box, then add some required wires somewhere where it's neccessary and then maybe an exhaust module that >has< to be on the generator.

this way people can have their own designs and it also adds a great layer of gameplay and depth to the game.

 

say you want to make a weapon.

 

so there are some pre-set 3d models of barrels that you can choose from. then your weapon needs a chamber, which you can then choose from again, and then it needs a magazine too. or you want to make your own sword

 

basically move the player-freedom to the lowest level just above where you dont have to use a 3d model program.

 

this gives the player more freedom while the studio only has to add some simple shapes to the game here and there.

 

make it as general as possible and multi-use as possible.

[DevisDevine]

so one thing that really nags me about DU is, if there is so much freedom, why do you not make it so that players could create their own modules based on a smaller pre-set of items.

 

im talking about being able to desing our own weapons & items too

 

but what i am getting at is instead of pre-creating for players things like pre-made turrets and machinery, you could make it so a player can create his own modules in a designer but WITHIN that designer there would be pre-set utilities.

 

so basically just moving the self-creation grid a level down.

 

is there a specific reason?

 

I agree with you man. When i first came across the game I was hoping that would be the method. 

 

Now I am not against the pre-defined modules except for the fact that its limited in variety. It is possible they were doing it for CPU resources. For things like power and shields you can always just add more modules. I am assuming they arent limiting it to 'you can only have 4 of this module' type limits.  But what about weapons, sure I can double my number for the DPS but what if I wanted more range, or one massive cannon thats half the size of my ship for a huge alpha or planetary bombardment? 

 

However I was hoping to see something more like starmade's system with moduals.  

You want a rapid fire cannon, add a cannon module with speed modifiers. But what if you want a long range artillery, then add range modules. This would definitely open up design possibilities. 

[Slaxx]

yes i completely agree with you there.

[Ripper]

There has to be some level of granularity thats the cut off.

 

You wouldnt want to mix your own gunpowder.

 

I think this conversation is a bit premature. We havent seen them yet. Im sure theres plenty of parts to make stuff out of.

[Slaxx]

you dont understand.

 

what i propose here is an entire different layer and makes the game able to have a dedicated design and development/research part of the game.

 

make it like the spore editor.

[norab7]

I feel this is both a good and bad idea.. That issues of balancing a system where you can't control what's being made i think sound like a huge hurdle to get over. If it can be balanced and made fair without to much trouble go for it...

 

But when do you stop going down levels, a game that's to complicated to play (or play at the level of expert builders) will not be fun for the people who don't have time to play it all the time... A game with over complicated system will give a advantage to the people who can understand and work out the complexity of the system..

[Slaxx]

we all want the game to be a success.

 

so we should definitely consider this possibility. the more the better, unless novaquark wants to fail.

but we have to go in depth here for the game to be a success.

 

it needs to be simple while at the same time be as complex as possible.

 

the idea would look like this:

 

whenever you research new things, you enable new parts that you can utilize in the designer.

 

at the beginning you have like 3 parts to choose from for your generator for example.

 

these parts have >longevity: 1 >power output : 1 >weight 2

then you research a little and after a while you have a module that has the stats >longevity: 2 >power output: 2 >weight: 3

then you research again and then you have another module that has >longevity: 2 >power output: 3 >weight: 1

 

of course you can research aestethical parts too and the parts add to the weight too and some do not have a use at all but look good.

just cosmetical things

 

these things would be devided under different sections in the research table or what ever you use then.

 

obviously you would need to first design the basic modules like research table in the designer too.

 

it all depends on how serious novaquark takes their project and if they want to be it a success.

 

do you guys get me?

[Slaxx]

this is what i had in mind.

 

 

and i just had another idea.

 

what if you can FIND special parts.

 

like legendary parts and shit

or you find like blueprints or the requirements to research rare parts.

 

these would be randomly generated in the same way borderlands does!

 

you would insert resources (which could also be randomly generated based on a pre-set of values) into the research machine, then let your research machine run a process which can then create a randomly generated part (the same way borderlands creates random weapons) based on said material and has thus different stats. (modified by the resource material you used)

this is a really good idea.

these parts can then be used for actual components/machinery.

 

it would also be saved in your empire's blueprint database.

in order for this to work, you would be able to access the research machine, choose what parts with which stats you'd like to have permanently saved and transfer them to the empire's datacore. the unsaved parts would vanish so they dont clog up the servers. the datacore should be an independent object too.

every research run would create 1 new part.

there would also be different modifiers in the game that different resources have. like being exceptionally fire-resistant or something and CAN have trade-offs too.

 

you could also mix resources to get 2 modifiers.

 

come on guys this is a really fucking good idea!

 

i know this is going to add alot of work to novaquark but based on the fact that the game is still in alpha and they are in high spirits about it, i should think that they would probably be very fond with this idea.

 

it would also create the option to create different materials for the actual game. like different walls with different properties.

some walls would be stronger than other walls, would have different properties like partial fire-resistance, things like that.

 

you get what i say?

[norab7]

this is a long-term game and the game can never be as elaborate as possible.

 

we should definitely consider this possibility. the more the better, unless novaquark wants to fail.

but we have to go in depth here for the game to be a success.

 

it needs to be simple while at the same time be as complex as possible.

 

the idea would look like this:

 

whenever you research new things, you enable new parts that you can utilize in the designer.

 

at the beginning you have like 3 parts to choose from for your generator for example.

 

these parts have >longevity: 1 >power output : 1 >weight 2

then you research a little and after a while you have a module that has the stats >longevity: 2 >power output: 2 >weight: 3

then you research again and then you have another module that has >longevity: 2 >power output: 3 but >weight: 5

 

of course you can research aestethical parts too and the parts add to the weight too and some do not have a use at all but look good.

just cosmetichal things

 

these things would be devided under different sections in the research table or what ever you use then.

 

obviously you would need to first design the basic modules in the designer too.

 

it all depends on how serious novaquark takes their project and if they want to be it a success.

 

do you guys get me?

 

You keep mentioning 'if they want it to be a success' but I think it's going to be a success regardless...

 

I understand what your saying about adding a level of research to the game and the player made elements and such, I just think over-complicating the game too much would have a negative effect on it rather than a positive.

[Slaxx]

it won't be complicated and it would add a great level of depth.

 

and i mean successfull on the LONG run.

[DevisDevine]

I feel this is both a good and bad idea.. That issues of balancing a system where you can't control what's being made i think sound like a huge hurdle to get over. If it can be balanced and made fair without to much trouble go for it...

 

But when do you stop going down levels, a game that's to complicated to play (or play at the level of expert builders) will not be fun for the people who don't have time to play it all the time... A game with over complicated system will give a advantage to the people who can understand and work out the complexity of the system..

 

 

I disagree on the complexity issue. As long as there are some basic modules for people to work with at the start then its all good. Eventually people that are good at it will put their designs on the market for others to buy and use. 

Novaquark is already relying on this model for their control systems, as discussed in their dev blog. 

 

 

 

this is a long-term game and the game can never be as elaborate as possible.

 

we should definitely consider this possibility. the more the better, unless novaquark wants to fail.

but we have to go in depth here for the game to be a success.

 

it needs to be simple while at the same time be as complex as possible.

 

the idea would look like this:

 

whenever you research new things, you enable new parts that you can utilize in the designer.

 

at the beginning you have like 3 parts to choose from for your generator for example.

 

these parts have >longevity: 1 >power output : 1 >weight 2

then you research a little and after a while you have a module that has the stats >longevity: 2 >power output: 2 >weight: 3

then you research again and then you have another module that has >longevity: 2 >power output: 3 but >weight: 1

 

of course you can research aestethical parts too and the parts add to the weight too and some do not have a use at all but look good.

just cosmetichal things

 

these things would be devided under different sections in the research table or what ever you use then.

 

obviously you would need to first design the basic modules like research table in the designer too.

 

it all depends on how serious novaquark takes their project and if they want to be it a success.

 

do you guys get me?

 

 

Well at first I was going to say this leads to sever imbalance issues. But you aren't saying give them the design tools to make their own like the devs do. 

 

It seems like it would be more of a point system based on research that you can spec where you wish. It would have to use the same meshes but just change their meta data. I could go for something like this, it gives infinite variability. 

I actually posted a topic on this today about component research, some way to add variability to the limited number of modules the devs will put out. 

 

Adding research that you pour resources into for a chance of upgrading is a way to give the older players something to work towards. I do like the idea of a RNG aspect to it and not just 'put x of this material, y of this material and wait z hours' and bam youve got a tier 2 module. That would be no different than them having it there already designed in game and would still be limited. 

[Slaxx]

Adding research that you pour resources into for a chance of upgrading is a way to give the older players something to work towards. I do like the idea of a RNG aspect to it and not just 'put x of this material, y of this material and wait z hours' and bam youve got a tier 2 module. That would be no different than them having it there already designed in game and would still be limited. 

i know right! this creates infinite fun and infinite variety!

[DevisDevine]

i know right! this creates infinite fun and infinite variety!

 

I am with you on that. While I understand they cannot create infinite meshes and modules for us to use, but allowing us to modify their attributes in some infinite way shouldnt be that hard. Check out my post on what my thoughts were. Its based off of Limit Theories' planned system. 

 

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/475-component-research/

[Slaxx]

i partly read it and thats what made me to actually suggest the idea too.

i have the same opinon there as you do.

[vylqun]

so basically as suggested in this thread (not the opening post tho)?

 

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/427-ship-build-components/

 

[DevisDevine]

so basically as suggested in this thread (not the opening post tho)?

 

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/427-ship-build-components/

 

yes, something like i mention in that post. I hadnt realized how detailed I described it there.