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NQ-Nyzaltar

DevBlog: Monetization, player happiness and economic viability

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I attended the 2000 Olympic's in Sydney without paying a cent. I was a carer thousands of tickets were given out to disabled people and their carers. (We were told "don't lose the clients, don't lose the clients." Then we lost a senior staff member!)

If your willing to work for somethings you can earn them for free. In this game model you can download the game, buy the first DAC and earn more in game by being really useful to other players and sending some of your in game credits on DAC to cover the next month. 

 

If you can't afford DAC then you probably can't afford the F2P super cool hat or even the P2W super gun. The history of the gaming metaverse is full of dead free to play games. All the games that have lasted the test of time have P2P or B2P. There are a dozen nearly empty open source games out there that were once F2P and went fan base and are now barely alive.

 

And will everyone from the English speaking world here please check their spelling and grammar. It takes a few seconds to add a spell checker to your browser. There are a whole lot of holes in your arguments when your mixing up the two holes/ wholes. 

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I haven't subscribed to an MMO for years and I won't be making exceptions for Dual Universe either.

 

I liked the Guild Wars 2 model of B2P with cosmetic and boosts in a cash shop.

 

If I find out this game will go subscription based (and it's looking likely) I will cancel my pledge on kickstarter and forget the game ever existed. It's not a threat just a fact :)

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It helps when you read the post BEFORE mine you know...If you don't get that, well, idgaf ;)

 

Reading and understanding that should really be more enforced in schools these days

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I would suggest a buy-to-play system, but allow player to choose to pay in installments.

There is the financial incentive not to cause trouble, and those who can't afford to buy it outright are able to pay it off in increments.

In such a system, there is the potential to have different tiers of players, for example, each tier of payment unlocks certain extended features, such as skill caps, ship sizes, market slots, etc.

You can try the game to a point, and if you don't like it, there is no subscription to cancel, and you haven't payed for the whole content.
If you do like the game, you can keep paying to unlock the rest of the progression.
It would also be helpful for those whose exchange rates make them pay exorbitant amounts.

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There is certainly no one that would refute that a "one size fits all" system for financially supporting a title never works... ever. So, we walk through the process to see how many players stick.

 

We start with the original game purchase. A modest price based on the actual released content and not a projected hyped "No Man's Sky" bubble of disappointment. I don't think anyone would argue about an outright modest priced purchase. $40 - 50ish (USD). With initial cash capital banked we move on to the other areas.

 

In-game shops are available in just about every MMO and provide for a fairly stable offset against financial downturn during cycles of additional development of the title. These should also be acting as a strong policy enforcer to discourage "Gold Sellers" by making your purchasing mechanism (Game shop currency) inexpensive enough in real world money to dissuade gold sellers from even bothering with the title. Of course the merchandise in the game shop should avoid pay2win items.

 

Free-to-play is valid. It encourages casual gamers that can't apply countless hours but enjoy popping in for an hour or two every day or so. However, it comes with limitations that do not and will never effect performance or competitive gameplay. Instead they will be limited by the more esoteric gameplay mechanics that might include Auctions or in game Mail system.

 

Subscribers is definitely valid for any MMO title and will be the life's blood that keeps a developer pumping out new enhancements, support and content for the title. If there is no intention to develop expansions for the title then disregard this and pump up the F2P to full access of everything. However, if new content is on the horizon then a fair subscriber fee is ok. If the new content comes in the form of enhanced game mechanics and not a full out expansion then they would be included as a large free (pre-paid by subs) update. If it is a major expansion that adds new content then a consideration for subscribers should come as game shop currency on account once a month that can offset the purchase price of the DLC when the expansion is released and made available through the game store. There is room to move as far as the subscriber fee and could be set in tiers such as gold and silver memberships (perhaps $15 and $10 respectively) that earns an equally proportionate game shop currency allotment.

 

The company that encompasses the whole rather than compartmentalizes a player base will survive longer.  

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Just as a test I just re installed Planet Entropia and fired it up. The debate about payments above is really about player loss if the leave the game for a while. Hence the test; I've been out of Entropia for 6+ years. My avatar was unchanged even though all the buildings around me were different. I went back to Port Atlantis, Got lost, got killed by a level one creature. All my skills, recipes, inventory and stored items were there. I did not own a room or landing pad etc but they are just another form of inventory. 

 

DU would be only different because your base would be gone but that's sandboxes for you. And there is no 10 hit monster to kill you while you try to remember how to equip a weapon. Derp. 

 

PS after 6 years the lighting glitch in the port Atlantis shops is still there! 

 

The most recent change is interesting you have a special pill that allows you to become one of the monsters and go hunt the players. Yikes. Nice idea. I've already suggested a variant of that here without knowing they had implemented this variant of my ancient forum suggestion there. 

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Personally, I like the pay to play model. It provides a steady income to the developer and keeps costs consist for the player, plus it helps avoid the pay to win that seems to always come with free to play models :P That being said, there seems to be a trend in the industry away from pay to play. A limited freemium system like EVE online is implementing might not be such a bad idea, but the f2p players would have to be significantly limited so as not to have a disproportionate affect on the game. 

 

If you can avoid that, though and just do P2P that'd be great! 

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Hi Zhiroc!

 

Your concerns are understandable. And here are the game design basics that should tackle both problems you mentioned:

The character progression will be based on skill progression over time (no character leveling).

 

Learning a basic skill at the minimum level will be a matter of minutes.

Having a basic skill at the minimum level will generally unlock a type of gameplay.

So the casual player will quickly have access to many gaming experiences, and he will be able to do more or less the same things than a veteran player, just less efficiently. On the other hand, if you don't play the game for a long time, money is not entirely wasted as your character continue to learn the selected skill while you're offline. Yes, this is quite similar to another game, in which it works incredibly well.

 

 

 

Hi Quasibyte !

 

We understand that the combo subscription model + cosmetic Cash Shop might appear a bit too much at first glance.

But there are some reasons behind it. And one of the biggest is directly tied with the reason why B2P + PLEX Model isn't a so great combination.

 

1) To make the PLEX system thrive right from the beginning, you need to have a free trial period: this enable players with low budget to accumulate enough in-game currency to buy their first PLEX. If you put a B2P model, it's immediately a paywall for them. If these players can't get into the game, the demand in PLEX will low to inexistent. Then, all the purpose to have PLEX is wasted. In this case, it's better to make a classic subscription model without PLEX.

 

2) Why a cosmetic Cash Shop? Let's say a lot of people discover our game after the Kickstarter and they want to support us. For ethical reasons, we can hardly ask for a classic subscription in Alpha, or even in Beta before the game is officially launched. It's unlikely such announcement would be welcomed. A cosmetic item that you buy and get in alpha or beta that you keep after official launch seems a lot more fair. True, an alternative would to have a Post-Kickstarter pledges on our website, but there are also drawbacks to go the supporter packs road several times. Another aspect is our technology relies in great part on cloud computing and that is something that might become signicantly more expensive in maintenance than classic servers used by other MMORPGs. If we fall into this scenario (we are still currently evaluating all our options), inflating subscription fee will probably not be well received, while a cosmetic Cash Shop might be more easily accepted by the community.

 

Best regards,

Nyzaltar.

I would be ALL OVER a cosmetic shop, gotta get that sweet #swag.

 

But for real, as someone that wants to be a part of the alpha and beta, if continuing to throw down for cosmetics helps, i'll be down for that. Just give me some sweet hobo rags to go with some spooky space armor and I'll be a happy camper.

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I want to raise mundane, but important question for many possible, future players.

 

What about subscription fee in CIS-countries?

 

Hate to say something like "give us discount, we too poor to pay for games we like", but this not so far from reality for many gamers in Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan and other countries. Kickstarters says that DAC cost is 18 euro after game release (if I understand correctly). Its absolutly crippling price for CIS. 

 

Any hope price will be region-based? 

 

There is very positive example - Steam. Even with legacy of legendary game-piracy in CIS, people now buy, and buy a lot, when price is affordable.

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I want to raise mundane, but important question for many possible, future players.

 

What about subscription fee in CIS-countries?

 

Hate to say something like "give us discount, we too poor to pay for games we like", but this not so far from reality for many gamers in Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan and other countries. Kickstarters says that DAC cost is 18 euro after game release (if I understand correctly). Its absolutly crippling price for CIS. 

 

Any hope price will be region-based? 

 

There is very positive example - Steam. Even with legacy of legendary game-piracy in CIS, people now buy, and buy a lot, when price is affordable.

It would be key for players where their regional currency would make the game unplayably expensive to secure DAC contracts with in-game players/orgs.

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I would be ALL OVER a cosmetic shop, gotta get that sweet #swag.

 

But for real, as someone that wants to be a part of the alpha and beta, if continuing to throw down for cosmetics helps, i'll be down for that. Just give me some sweet hobo rags to go with some spooky space armor and I'll be a happy camper.

Give me a duster coat in-game, and I will support this motion ! :P

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I'm on board for a subscription based system if it can help keep the game from going belly up. Though I have no issues either with the concept of the Subscription costs being an affordable amount due to something like the mentioned In game cosmetic item store acting like a support revenue to the games lifespan.  Only issue though I can think of is if the "Cosmetic Shop" could keep up on offering consistent cosmetic items of quality that would encourage enough players to spend $ on.

Though I'm also not really against the idea of their hybrid suggestion of something similar to how EVE Online worked though we all know that EvE is going F2P in November do we not? I'm not super familiar with EvEs sub fees and what its doing within the game to be able to go F2P come Nov. since I never really became a paying member to it.

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Eve is NOT going to be a real F2P. They just introduce a skillcap for non subscribers, they can't have more than one race, small ships only and stuff. It's more like wow hardcap lvl20(?? Never played it though).

Eve is 10-15€, depending on how long you pay at once.

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Hello, I come from the world of Wurm online, and I really love their economic system. It is player driven, and the in game currency is valued at real world money. I really would love for this game to follow the same concept. It is also a subscription based game!I personally feel like this game would flow perfectly with that same idea. It would make it much more realistic, and you guys could make some money off it too! I really hope you guys would consider something similar to this!

Thanks!

Ruukuegg

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Dual Universe just wants to commit suicide with the subscription idea.

This game is not EVE online and should not take the same model.

 

I've heard tons of players disapointed by this economy and not willing to back the game on kickstarter just for this sole reason.

 

The cost of independance is high but this is not a reason to ruin a good concept ! 

If the only way to get it free to play + freemium is to go with a publisher, please do it.

 

Or even by letting players create their own private servers, since we won't see eachother there is no reason to build a gigantic unique server.

 

Otherwise this game will collapse soon after its release because of the lack of high quality content and we will all loose a great potential.

 

For the sake of the Videogame culture, please Novaquark, go find something else or the Kickstarter campain won't go any further.

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Servers are the main problem. I'd say f2p for very limited connexion time. Like 10 or 5 hours a week. And possibility to get DACs in the game to buy a full access at the beginning of a month. The F2P would be poor but there will be one and once in a while you could have a month for free. Thanks.

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Dual Universe just wants to commit suicide with the subscription idea.

This game is not EVE online and should not take the same model.

 

I've heard tons of players disapointed by this economy and not willing to back the game on kickstarter just for this sole reason.

 

The cost of independance is high but this is not a reason to ruin a good concept ! 

If the only way to get it free to play + freemium is to go with a publisher, please do it.

 

Or even by letting players create their own private servers, since we won't see eachother there is no reason to build a gigantic unique server.

 

Otherwise this game will collapse soon after its release because of the lack of high quality content and we will all loose a great potential.

 

For the sake of the Videogame culture, please Novaquark, go find something else or the Kickstarter campain won't go any further.

 

There are several good reasons to build one gigantic server (which are obvious so I won't state them AGAIN).

 

P2P is the way to go here for NQ, no other option viable. Deal with it already, either you want to play this game (then pay) or you don't (then grind in-game and buy DACs with in-game money). Or just back Ruby....plenty of options. But it won't be crap-f2p-model

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