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DevBlog: Monetization, player happiness and economic viability

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I don't even know where to start..... wow. just wow.

 

 

 

That Super Power weapon / ship  "today" would cost  1000 game credts. This is the same starting price for 1 month PLEX that is purchased for 15£ RL money.
6 months Later Lots of rich players start to sell plex inside game... The plex price lowed from 1k to 900 gold, 
But the Powerful weapon / ship became 900.000

 

Why should that PLAYER BUILT WEAPON FROM RESSOURCES THEY GATHER cost 1000times more? Sure there will be a bit of a drift in prices but just look at EVE markets - a titan costs like 50bil incl equipment. For like 3 Years now. You obviously don't understand markets or mix something really badly.

 

 

You are clayming Pay-2-Play P2W Explain how.--  1st let me reply with Lethys comment :
"... sure you can invest 5000€ to buy PLEX and have like 900bil ..."

 

OK now i have one question for you guys.. WHAT IS PAY TO WIN IN YOUR CONCEPT ???

Because, the well know popular concept is:
" If you can inject real money inside a game to achieve game advantages, Like become billionaire, oh thats a P2W game !!!"

 

 

I strongly suggest you READ my post again. Plex seller has lots of ingame money. So what? He cannot achieve anything with it, because HE IS BOUND TO BUILDING TIMES, RESSOURCE GATHERING (of others - he buys them) and FOR F**** SAKE: he is NOT born with an inherent talent to build/maneuver a ship! Yes he has more money than you, but guess what, with enough time and intelligence you can even make MORE money than a PLEX seller ever does! There are plenty of billionaires in eve who never bought anything - they just play a lot and are SMART about buying/Selling stuff.

 

Do you want to punish or limit the online time of people too? Because a dude without work and living off social welfare playing DU 24/7 will definitely have a LOT of money....more than a plex seller

 

 

 

A veteran player could invest money to speed up his gameplay (as I do - I hate pve grinding). So what? What do you think will happen when I just bling out my ships or buy super-uber-extreme-mega weapons? I die horribly. Why? Because it's a MMO

 

Sadly its not the truth, let me tell a story, Once i was with my guild on a international server, the main guilds was Russ, Spanish, Greek and Brazilian,
we fight hard for domination and glory, was balanced and fun for us and our enemies, but once a guy arrived, a 12yo son of a politician lawyer's in RL, with his friends, cool !?  he purchased ALL top characters and Items paying from 500 to 3k $ he brought lots of sellable items to the market and raise the price of everything

His guild start to random attack everybody and were almost unkillable when all the about 30 guys fully ekiped were online.

Now lets see if you still think

What do you think will happen when I just bling out my ships or buy super-uber-extreme-mega weapons?

when some richie kid decide that your company will not fly a single ship out of the safe zone ?! You kill them, they will buy they fleet in 1 day, and you will farm / built per weeks to get your ship back again ...
 

 

I also f****** up the markets in EVE. Alone. Because I could. So what? happens in a sandbox, who cares? that's the POINT of a sandbox!

You said it: 30 (!!!!!) people. Who cares in a world with thousands of players? Don't, just DONT, compare a theme park mmo with like 500 players to a sandbox. Don't

 

That will be a legit tactic. Even without selling plex. What do you think big organizations can (and at some point will) do? They have the manpower to mine 24/7. They will build ships 24/7. They will rapecage you 24/7. No need for selling plex. only manpower and dedication. If you can't figure out a way to win (diplomacy, bribes, spies, terror, scams,...) then....just leave and build up anywhere else?

 

 

enough?!

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OK Guys....

 

"you are not even providing stable examples"   --  .. I think i already did in my previous posts

 

costs per region  = I hope i will become truth, will make the game fair, but VERY FEW companies understand or apply it

 

no offence but you completley disregard inflation --  believe or not I know a lot about inflation and economics ,

but inside a game things not behave exactly like RL, Its easy to see game items became priced by real money than an Item purchase by real money losing value its value in game money.

Here is an EX:

That Super Power weapon / ship  "today" would cost  1000 game credts. This is the same starting price for 1 month PLEX that is purchased for 15£ RL money.

6 months Later Lots of rich players start to sell plex inside game... The plex price lowed from 1k to 900 gold, 

But the Powerful weapon / ship became 900.000 because now its priced in Plex, or in Real money so to speak, and since the Plex considering market is full of Plex availability its purchase power lows but not its game credit value simply because ppl who pays real money don't want to low and all agree that it costs around 1k so it will never become 100 credit. 

 

And guys I'm not inventing this, I already saw more than a few games following this tendance, like  (This TOP sword costs 10.000.000 Gold or 300$ RL money)

and I am not telling the PLEX system doesn't work,

But it need to be regulated!

Maybe if a player Could sell just one, in game per month, than it would prevent a rich guys to umbalance the game market and turn it P2W !!!

 

You are clayming Pay-2-Play P2W Explain how.--  1st let me reply with Lethys comment :

"... sure you can invest 5000€ to buy PLEX and have like 900bil ..."

 

OK now i have one question for you guys.. WHAT IS PAY TO WIN IN YOUR CONCEPT ???

Because, the well know popular concept is:

" If you can inject real money inside a game to achieve game advantages, Like become billionaire, oh thats a P2W game !!!"

 

Why 90% of player hate it ?  Because they came to play a game where they can be respect for their strategy / skill / intelligence / game play,   not to be overpowered for rich guys like in real life.

 

But now, if you guys agree with pay real money for game advantages, its ok, just be honest and say : "I agree with SOME level of P2W inside a game"

I will not be blaming you

 

A veteran player could invest money to speed up his gameplay (as I do - I hate pve grinding). So what? What do you think will happen when I just bling out my ships or buy super-uber-extreme-mega weapons? I die horribly. Why? Because it's a MMO

 

Sadly its not the truth, let me tell a story, Once i was with my guild on a international server, the main guilds was Russ, Spanish, Greek and Brazilian,

we fight hard for domination and glory, was balanced and fun for us and our enemies, but once a guy arrived, a 12yo son of a politician lawyer's in RL, with his friends, cool !?  he purchased ALL top characters and Items paying from 500 to 3k $ he brought lots of sellable items to the market and raise the price of everything

His guild start to random attack everybody and were almost unkillable when all the about 30 guys fully ekiped were online.

 

Now lets see if you still think

What do you think will happen when I just bling out my ships or buy super-uber-extreme-mega weapons?

when some richie kid decide that your company will not fly a single ship out of the safe zone ?! You kill them, they will buy they fleet in 1 day, and you will farm / built per weeks to get your ship back again ...

 

 

enough ?!

 

 

 

Nobody in here takes you seriously, because you are oblivious to economics. You don't even understand that the subscription cost per country is derived from a sum between 3% of the monthly minimum wage and the currency's inflations rate.

 

 

You don't know about inflation (I bet you looked it up, but still, given all your posts being full of inaccuracies, you did not know what inflation was prior to this very thread). You also don't understand conversion ratios, or minimum wage... or per capita income.

 

 

Your story is way too irrelevant to be even taken seriously. You are still OBLIVIOUS to Supply & Demand rules and how they deflate a PLEX's worth. You are talking out of your rear here. You are confusing whatever Pay-2-Win free-2-play game, with a PLEX system.

 

 

A guy that invests 5000 Euro in PLEX, won't make ALL TEH MONEH (as I'm sure you are thinking, since you know jac kon economics). He will simply make 250 people happy, cause they bought a month of gameplay for a far lower price than they would. Why? Becase inflaton of an item in the market reduces its value.

 

 

Please, stop discussing economics. Everyone here proven you wrong. You are unwaare of how subscriptions function, how PLEX loses worth with inflation of its presence in the market, you CLEARLY do not understand conversion rates - OR RATIOS AT ALL - you don't get minimum wage, per capita income and of course, Supply & Demand rules.

 

 

The subscription model doesn't succeed in other MMOs, because they make WoW clones that ccollapse, because people go for the original WoW, not some knock-off.

 

 

And the richie kid story, is so made up. The game you played is obviously a mobile game. It's so obvious. If that kid you speak of bought 5000 Euro in PLEX, he would be target uno the moment he left the arkship. Like it happens in EVE.

 

 

That's what your brain doesn't get. PLEX can be stolen by other players. You need to haul PLEX from the arkship, back to a trading hub to sell it. In between, you can be robbed easily. That's why it's not Pay-2-Win. 

 

 

Keep telling BS stories about corrupt "politician lawyer illuminati lizard people richie 12yo kids". You proven you are lying when you claimed you understand inflation and the subscriptino model, while you spew incoherent nonsense. I bet the story of the 12yo richie corrupt politician laywer kiddie illuminati lizard people story is also a figment of your imagination and based in BS.

 

 

 

Nobody takes you seriously. You proven you are nebulous on economics and how monetization works.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I don't even know where to start..... wow. just wow.

 

 

 

Why should that PLAYER BUILT WEAPON FROM RESSOURCES THEY GATHER cost 1000times more? Sure there will be a bit of a drift in prices but just look at EVE markets - a titan costs like 50bil incl equipment. For like 3 Years now. You obviously don't understand markets or mix something really badly.

 

 

I strongly suggest you READ my post again. Plex seller has lots of ingame money. So what? He cannot achieve anything with it, because HE IS BOUND TO BUILDING TIMES, RESSOURCE GATHERING (of others - he buys them) and FOR F**** SAKE: he is NOT born with an inherent talent to build/maneuver a ship! Yes he has more money than you, but guess what, with enough time and intelligence you can even make MORE money than a PLEX seller ever does! There are plenty of billionaires in eve who never bought anything - they just play a lot and are SMART about buying/Selling stuff.

 

Do you want to punish or limit the online time of people too? Because a dude without work and living off social welfare playing DU 24/7 will definitely have a LOT of money....more than a plex seller

 

 

 

I also f****** up the markets in EVE. Alone. Because I could. So what? happens in a sandbox, who cares? that's the POINT of a sandbox!

You said it: 30 (!!!!!) people. Who cares in a world with thousands of players? Don't, just DONT, compare a theme park mmo with like 500 players to a sandbox. Don't

 

That will be a legit tactic. Even without selling plex. What do you think big organizations can (and at some point will) do? They have the manpower to mine 24/7. They will build ships 24/7. They will rapecage you 24/7. No need for selling plex. only manpower and dedication. If you can't figure out a way to win (diplomacy, bribes, spies, terror, scams,...) then....just leave and build up anywhere else?

 

 

enough?!

Mate, the guy's ignorant. You are dealing with the same kind of people that never understood mortgages but gotten them despite that fact, because they thought them as "Free money". He belongs in that category of people.

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Mate, the guy's ignorant. You are dealing with the same kind of people that never understood mortgages but gotten them despite that fact, because they thought them as "Free money". He belongs in that category of people.

 

Hahaha possibly, I get money for free to waste on ze gang \o/

 

 

Every time I see the word mate it reminds of that hilarious story where someone thought mate was insulting.

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Hahaha possibly, I get money for free to waste on ze gang \o/

 

 

Every time I see the word mate it reminds of that hilarious story where someone thought mate was insulting.

This thread is such a salt mine, even the word mate can be taken as an insult :P

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I think a good system would F2P .

 

Why? Because one of the most important things is that a lot of people to interact . Many you want P2P, I remind BDO is P2P and there are still bots and hacks, if the biggest problem is that with P2P is not fixed .

 

Conclusion : F2P , NO P2W , with decoratorios elements , different ships , more variety, but not P2W .

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Hey  CaptainTwerkmotor

No one here take YOU seriously in fact so don't give me the credit, you are just a troll that has nothing better to do hole day than reply ppl with junk language, 
you say i don't know about economics, but i only see you bark a lot but say nothing useful to prove i'm wrong, or to defend other players with different visions than your own. Its just empty text from some one that has nothing to provide........

BTW I have played more MMOs than you have age,  American, Korean, Europian you chose the flavor... With all kinds of monetization types and game play. I saw them raise and decline. 

 

And nothing I do speak here is with no previous study I could provide lots of links foruns / blogs / magazines / youtube about other games, economics and viability, but simply here is not a place to talk about other games.

I can just say that luckily this game don't depends on you to become great ..... 

#ignore  CaptainTwerkmotor

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Hey  CaptainTwerkmotor

 

No one here take YOU seriously in fact so don't give me the credit, you are just a troll that has nothing better to do hole day than reply ppl with junk language, 

you say i don't know about economics, but i only see you bark a lot but say nothing useful to prove i'm wrong, or to defend other players with different visions than your own. Its just empty text from some one that has nothing to provide........

 

BTW I have played more MMOs than you have age,  American, Korean, Europian you chose the flavor... With all kinds of monetization types and game play. I saw them raise and decline. 

 

And nothing I do speak here is with no previous study I could provide lots of links foruns / blogs / magazines / youtube about other games, economics and viability, but simply here is not a place to talk about other games.

 

I can just say that luckily this game don't depends on you to become great ..... 

 

#ignore  CaptainTwerkmotor

Apparenty, I don't know anything, that's whyou come up with strawman's arguements? :V

 

I explained to you thoroughly tha subcriptions vary per region, the 15 USD model is a unit of calculations. You extract that via a formula, which is basically 3% of the minimum wage that is altered through inflation to match a 15 USD sub's standards and taxes.

 

I explained to you Supply & Demand and why the PLEX is not P2W.

 

I explained to you your math are wrong.

 

I explained to you that Cloud services cost.

 

You still don't get it. You gave an example of a free2play game that had pay2win as a reason why PLEX in a subscription game is pay2win.

 

 

I rest my case. Yours is lost, so I win be default.

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You are not paying to play, you are paying for the servers to stay up. You are subsribing to ensure the devs keep updating the game with content and provide customer support.

 

Or should they go flip one and die from starvation and you get a game that runs out of content within 3 months?

 

What? You thought servers run on willpower and the Devs run a charity? As I said, go play your Korean MMO with isntances every other door and your B2P games with "pay to turn right" and pay-2-win. You are clearly not willing to pay for any quality.

 

 

First of all... don't know what your problem is!

You guy have apparently an korean fetish^^

 

1. For a good game, no dev gonna strave if they use B2P! As example only think that the game gonna cost 60 Euro and that at least 100 000 people buy the game... calculate how much money they gonna have (i repeat only an example, if the game is good they gonna sell more).

 

2. Servers are not dev's problem! You know what a DEDICATED SERVER is? Only as a little example...

 

3. You guy seem to have a reality problem. 99% of the B2P games (that you buy and so pay only 1 time) are NOT pay to win... but your so blindly beloved P2P is it at over 90% !!!

 

4. What contineously pay for to get updates? XD In what kind of reality seriously are you living?

I have so many games that I bought and that are frequently updates FOR FREE!

 

5. Don't come again with Korean MMO...  or is this your case... had you ever had this problem? Is it your secret experience from the past that traumatized you? ;)

 

Look, first of all this thread you have your opinion, I got mine, if you dislike it okay...good but don't come with such a crap like "your korean blablabla".

 

Live with it, other people have their own opinions!

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First of all... don't know what your problem is!

You guy have apparently an korean fetish^^

 

1. For a good game, no dev gonna strave if they use B2P! As example only think that the game gonna cost 60 Euro and that at least 100 000 people buy the game... calculate how much money they gonna have (i repeat only an example, if the game is good they gonna sell more).

 

2. Servers are not dev's problem! You know what a DEDICATED SERVER is? Only as a little example...

 

3. You guy seem to have a reality problem. 99% of the B2P games (that you buy and so pay only 1 time) are NOT pay to win... but your so blindly beloved P2P is it at over 90% !!!

 

4. What contineously pay for to get updates? XD In what kind of reality seriously are you living?

I have so many games that I bought and that are frequently updates FOR FREE!

 

5. Don't come again with Korean MMO...  or is this your case... had you ever had this problem? Is it your secret experience from the past that traumatized you? ;)

 

Look, first of all this thread you have your opinion, I got mine, if you dislike it okay...good but don't come with such a crap like "your korean blablabla".

 

Live with it, other people have their own opinions!

Dedicated servers? Hmm, really? How will you run a dedicated Cloud Server for this game on your own?

 

Oh wait, you won't. Because the lead developer of the game made the tech himself and won't give it off for free so other can make money off of it. Welcome to the world of patents.

 

Your "dedicated servers", work in the average MMO, which is heavily instanced. You clearly missed the point of this game, you think it's minecraft or space engineers. Well, it is that, but with a global player-base and a single-shard MMO in mind. Think a minecraft server with all the servers that exist in it. All of the buildings existing, in one single server.

 

 

Boy, that sounds expensive, seems to me the devs won't go B2P, cause that B2P won't cover the costs.

 

 

You clearly missed the memo on taxation, retailers' fees and all those things :( . You think the 60 Euro by 100,000 means 60,000,000 euro right? Boy, that would be nice, if the retailers and the governments didn't exist (spoiler alert, they do ;) )

 

 

Your Korean MMO free-2-play game, is heavily instanced, because their devs can't build their own server tech. Which is why NovaQuark developed their own server tech, so the game has no instances :) 

 

A server tech you will pay a subscription for. What? Will you set up a private server? Good luck, WoW servers are a nightmare to set up. I don't even want to think how bad the game would run on an off-the-shelf server hardware.

 

Plus, dedicated servers run on a thing called "donations", so you pay for them when you pay those "9,99 USD" for that piece of armor cause "it's not pay-2-win, I just want to make my life easier from grinding".

 

 

If you heard the crack on the back of your skull that reverberates through your jaw and teeth, that's a brick worth of facts hitting you.

 

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First of all... don't know what your problem is!

You guy have apparently an korean fetish^^

 

1. For a good game, no dev gonna strave if they use B2P! As example only think that the game gonna cost 60 Euro and that at least 100 000 people buy the game... calculate how much money they gonna have (i repeat only an example, if the game is good they gonna sell more).

 

2. Servers are not dev's problem! You know what a DEDICATED SERVER is? Only as a little example...

 

3. You guy seem to have a reality problem. 99% of the B2P games (that you buy and so pay only 1 time) are NOT pay to win... but your so blindly beloved P2P is it at over 90% !!!

 

4. What contineously pay for to get updates? XD In what kind of reality seriously are you living?

I have so many games that I bought and that are frequently updates FOR FREE!

 

5. Don't come again with Korean MMO...  or is this your case... had you ever had this problem? Is it your secret experience from the past that traumatized you? ;)

 

Look, first of all this thread you have your opinion, I got mine, if you dislike it okay...good but don't come with such a crap like "your korean blablabla".

 

Live with it, other people have their own opinions!

Finally someone who think! We all look so dumb next to you now XD And im not even kidding.

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I dunno, I think many people overestimate the cost of a sub... Going to the cinema cost about the same amount as a average monthly game subscription... although watching the movie in the cinema will be like 2 hours where during a month you will probably find more then 2 hours to spend in the game...

 

I understand that it can feel like wasted money if you only play 5 hours in that month but it's quite misplaced :o Unless you feel even more so when going to the cinema  ;)  

I would not pay a monthly subscription to go to the cinema though. Your argument is invalid. 

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There is a really simple response to all of the people with brand new forum accounts who come into these payment model threads complaining and expecting NovaQuark to suddenly drop all of their business plans because they don't want to pay a subscription fee like the rest of us.

 

 

dzyrUl2.gif

 

 

 

Nobody is forcing anyone to play Dual Universe. If you don't want to pay to play, then move along, because that is very clearly something that is not going to change for a very long time. 

 

The rest of us, however, will be enjoying the game. 

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I just want to show my support for the subscription model. I am also in favor of removing DACS completely but I understand that's probably unpopular. 

 

Edit for clarification - DACS wrongfully encourage players to play to pay their sub so they can continue to play to pay their sub. Popular forum topics will be "I'm new, what should I do to make the most currency/hr so I can afford DACS". This mindset really sets up new/trial players for failure when they have unrealistic expectations on how much in game currency they can earn early on, grinding for that currency even if it isn't "fun" for them and training or investing in skills related to that grind that they may regret. 

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PLEASE NO PAY TO PLAY!!!

 

I really liked EVE Online But wasn't able to play due to it being pay to play. I think that buying the game once is all that is needed! If you need more funds to keep servers up add DLC but, don't make us pay monthly. I do believe F2P is not a good way to do it though.

 

Thanks for Your Consideration,

 

InfiniteGamer1 

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There is a really simple response to all of the people with brand new forum accounts who come into these payment model threads complaining and expecting NovaQuark to suddenly drop all of their business plans because they don't want to pay a subscription fee like the rest of us.

 

 

dzyrUl2.gif

 

 

 

Nobody is forcing anyone to play Dual Universe. If you don't want to pay to play, then move along, because that is very clearly something that is not going to change for a very long time. 

 

The rest of us, however, will be enjoying the game.

 

Nothing to add! Subscribe on this quote

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How about buying cumulative hours instead of a time frame?

 

as stated everywhere and again and again: no. It will not work that way. Your char trains 24/7 that's why it doesn't work that way

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