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DevBlog: Monetization, player happiness and economic viability

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I won't dislike the pay to play modle, one of the reasons I won't play WoW.

 

I would support  a Free to Play modle, or a low buy to play cost, so that players fell invested, but get most of the money via costmtics and such.

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I'm not going to go over all the points due to the fact that many other have amply covered the pros and cons of each. However I will state my preference. I see the biggest benefits comming from a PtP. However I wouldn't mind seeing a lifetime subscription come up in the very beginning of (let's say) the Alpha build. This is due to the fact that the people who buys these subscriptions will most likely be people who have been around for awhile and have been supporting the game in some way. However, the flip side to this is, the majority of people that would buy a lifetime subscription would be the ones who would also happly pay for a subscription anyway. Now apologizes ahead of time if my logic is somewhat scewed but those are just my thoughts.

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I'm not going to go over all the points due to the fact that many other have amply covered the pros and cons of each. However I will state my preference. I see the biggest benefits comming from a PtP. However I wouldn't mind seeing a lifetime subscription come up in the very beginning of (let's say) the Alpha build. This is due to the fact that the people who buys these subscriptions will most likely be people who have been around for awhile and have been supporting the game in some way. However, the flip side to this is, the majority of people that would buy a lifetime subscription would be the ones who would also happly pay for a subscription anyway. Now apologizes ahead of time if my logic is somewhat scewed but those are just my thoughts.

 

If the game continues to show promise and I can some how be involved to test out the game, all be it by some closed alpha or beta process and I deem it good enough I will pay for an life time subscription as long as that price is not too exuberant. 

 

I will not however pay for a subscription like I used to for WoW.  There are two many other developments out there that are progressing well that have a b2p structure and even some f2p systems are working to some success and can be very financially lucrative.

 

I see a subscription as a sure way to cripple a game.

  • Wildstar : gone f2p with optional Signature service(subscription)
  • Elder scrolls online : gone b2p - dropped subscription
  • Guildwars 2 : gone free to play with buyable expantions
  • Rift: gone f2p with optional Patron status(subscription)
  • SWTOR: gone f2p

Even WoW has partially gone free to play with level cap and a possible Veteran Edition could be coming for players of old to play without paying.

 

The two most successful new developments I have seen (only my opinion) are Ark survival evolved, and Star Citizen...  

 

Ark has even added a Free way for you to be able to play a portion of the game to wet your appetite with the survival of the fittest.

 

My view is. I wont... wont pay for a subscription on a game that has so much competition out there, and have so many developments that don't come to completion for what ever reason. So much risk of lost investment with early access. and I have brought many EA games (cry's over cubeworld, starforge, nether, Entropy, Tug... the list goes on)

 

I would pay a retail price and pay for expansions like I have with Elite Dangerous. I will buy founders packs for games and then in-game purchases for games I thing have merit in the f2p style. like Planetside 2 (only while owned by Sony and not the abomination of money grabbing Day Break) and Firefall.

 

I want to see this game succeeded and I want to be involved. you have a epic task to make this game available to enough people to make the community good and you have the same epic battle to hold the attention of the ADHD generation of gamer's that are emerging and driving the f2p style as they can't stay on a game long enough to make subscriptions viable.

 

This is the age of the independent developer and at the same time the struggle to get enough people religious about your product. In my own circles we have about 20-30 people on a community teamspeak and about another 30 or so close mates on steam and we all diverge into different games - all different walks of like and different game genre interests.  The games we come together to play are either buy to play, where sometimes we gift to people who can't afford or f2p so we can all play.  Not once have we ever grouped together in a subscription based game.

 

I don't believe with the multitude of choice, that a required subscription based payment structure is something an Extremely Massive multiplayer Online (EMMO) style game survive on.

 

But this is only my opinion which will not be shared by everyone.  But fingers crossed what you choose will suit me and enough of my mates that we will able to participate in this journey with the Dual Universe Community.

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If one understands the benefits of p2p and b2p, I would create a mechanic that flows those benefits into f2p. I mean you can create a probationary period

that limits the account created until  a significant amount of time have been invested thereby giving the player a consequential condition that would make them

think twice about rabble rousing or "trolling" etc... f2p will definitely give this game a massive population and given the scope of the game this would be a good thing.  There are still a lot of people out there that find P2P simply a costly pay wall specially if one is a casual player, but if casual player is not in your demographic and only have room for the elitist lot, I guess go for it. Furthermore, you can still have a plex type system even in a f2p setting, this would be something that would give players access to a great convenience and benefits towards convenience, such a system isn't exclusive to a pay to play schema.

Those that cannot afford to grind for those plex type currency would just have to do everything the long way around since those benefits should still be attainable even if it through an impossible amount of grind, but still attainable.

 

Cosmetic or Vanity items are great merchandising tools since everyone wants to look unique and not like a clone of the next player. The reason why I don't play EVE is that P2P paywall as I am a casual player, I play Rift which is f2p and invest heavily in cosmetics and good looking mount types and mount skins to support the game, I play The Secret world which is buy2play now but then again I was in it from the very beginning and had bought into the lifetime subscription, but I still buy stuff at the store to support the game, cosmetic stuff, not pay to win stuff, just something to make my avatar look more unique.

 

There is more of us casual players than one may think. Casual players can makeup the majority of the population in a game that are akin to civilians that do just that, populate and make your game look more active and be more active.

 

So please don't be too quick to dismiss f2p.

 

And as for Eve the only ones playing those now are the condescending elitist troll bastards that barely have a life in the real world. That game could be making even more money if it weren't p2p, but i guess that is why a$$hole$ are like opinions, everyone has one and it stinks.

 

Anyway peace out from a casual player( yeah i'm a dirty casual player you elitist burn out.) and I hope to partake in Dual if it isn't behind a paywall until

then i'll support Star Citizen.

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With the scale and aspirations of this game... the correct monetary system will be hard to come by....but i can tell you right now, a Pay to Play system will not help you. World of Warcraft is losing players left and right, Many free to play games are far superior to Pay to Play counterparts. SWTOR died quickly, and their "freemium" system is horrible.... ESO went buy to play.... In the end, most Pay to Play games are dieing, dead or changing. 

 

While im not saying its the best option, Free to play is a very valid option. It allows for any player who wishes to play to play, and does not limit thoes who dont feel like spending money. Honestly... at the point you have shown, i can go buy Space engineers, do everything you have shown in trailers and images, and NOT have to worry about thousands of players taking up all the materials, space or just being issues. 

 

The Best option, would be Buy to play with a cash shop (nothing limiting to the creativity or freedoms). Players have to invest a small amount to play the game, and maybe have to purchase a license to sell ship/station/building designs to other players. Cosmetic items are always a possibility as well. 

 

In the end, Buy to Play eliminates the restrictions of a Pay to Play system, but does not allow for total freedom of a Free to play system. Just dont do what so many games have done and want to imitate another game because it looks like they are making money. Bots and trouble makers are not exclusive to Free to play games, and Good natured and mature players are not exclusive to Pay to Play games... you find both sides in both type of games... find a middle ground, not 1 end of the spectrum or the other. 

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I'm coming in a little late on this one. But I do have some feedback.

I agree with the thinking behind this decision and have played in the Eve economy.

My only piece of feedback would be to somehow ensure that the in game PLEX/tokens remain attainable to new players.

As far as I know EVE does not modify the PLEX market at all and this does make it hard to get the ball rolling on playing for free.

Perhaps subsidize a percentage of the PLEX/token purchase price during the trial period so that new players enjoyment of the game isn't subsumed by the prospect of grinding out the full PLEX/token price.

Basically, ensure that there is room for a good work/fun balance during a new player's start up phase. I met many new Eve pilots who felt the game became more job than fun because the PLEX wall they had to climb was just too high as a new player.

Maybe this can be conditionally implemented dependent upon the market value of the PLEX/token compared to the average earning rate of trial players.

I'm sure this could scale in a way that would balance the need for new players overall against the need for new paying players. 

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So what�s the conclusion?
 
We have synthesized a bit all the things that were taken into account, but you have here all the main reasons why we are aiming toward a Pay to Play model. In a nutshell, here�s what we have planned:
  • Free Trial period: between 2 and 4 weeks.
  • Monthly subscription (optional with a PLEX-like system)
  • Possible (cosmetic only) Cash Shop. If deployed, we will make it in order that every month, players who have paid a subscription will be able to get some cash shop items for free.
 
Of course, we will remain open to discussion on this topic like any other: don't hesitate to give us your feedback on the Social Media and/or on the forum! :)
 
The Novaquark Team.

 

 

P2P is with a sub option is fine, just do not do it like NCSoft NA with their Blade and Soul game, where they consistently place low rate RNG boxes in their cash shop, scamming the playerbase for hundreds of dollars, as well as "convenience items" that translates to thousands of playing hours vs hundreds of dollars.

 

My major concern will not be how the developers get pay, but rather, how will the developers keep the BOTs/hacks out of the game, because we all know hack prevention apps like nProtection Game Guard doesn't work.

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I'm coming in a little late on this one. But I do have some feedback.

 

I agree with the thinking behind this decision and have played in the Eve economy.

 

My only piece of feedback would be to somehow ensure that the in game PLEX/tokens remain attainable to new players.

 

As far as I know EVE does not modify the PLEX market at all and this does make it hard to get the ball rolling on playing for free.

 

Perhaps subsidize a percentage of the PLEX/token purchase price during the trial period so that new players enjoyment of the game isn't subsumed by the prospect of grinding out the full PLEX/token price.

 

Basically, ensure that there is room for a good work/fun balance during a new player's start up phase. I met many new Eve pilots who felt the game became more job than fun because the PLEX wall they had to climb was just too high as a new player.

 

Maybe this can be conditionally implemented dependent upon the market value of the PLEX/token compared to the average earning rate of trial players.

 

I'm sure this could scale in a way that would balance the need for new players overall against the need for new paying players. 

 

That's not the game problem. The economy in eve and even in du is supposed to be made by the players. Plexs price goes up or down depending on the amount of people willing to buy/sell it. Plexs will never be cheap since, if it is easy to get it ingame, everyone would buy it, and consequentially the price would rise up.

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After the latest gameplay footage, my real question is if you accept MasterCard on your subscription plan, or if it's going to be a Buy PLEX -> Redeem PLEX.

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For this kind of game, f2p is just impossible.. or not? What if a closed-multiplayer module was implemented for free? Or buy-to-play?

Okay, that would frustrating, but pay-to-play is much more frustrating, at least for me.

I've always preferred buy-to-play, especially with trial times avalaible. Yes, Dual Universe is a MMORPG, just like Eve or WoW, but..
If DU will be pay-to-play with no other options, I wouldn't pay more than 1$/month.

But I would pay 10-15$ for an instant buy with no problem - Dual Universe looks too cool to ignore it.

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For this kind of game, f2p is just impossible.. or not? What if a closed-multiplayer module was implemented for free? Or buy-to-play?

Okay, that would frustrating, but pay-to-play is much more frustrating, at least for me.

I've always preferred buy-to-play, especially with trial times avalaible. Yes, Dual Universe is a MMORPG, just like Eve or WoW, but..

If DU will be pay-to-play with no other options, I wouldn't pay more than 1$/month.

But I would pay 10-15$ for an instant buy with no problem - Dual Universe looks too cool to ignore it.

 

How would you propose the company who is making the game to make money in the long run on a buy to play plan, especially one as cheap as 10 dollars? That works if they intend on keeping the servers alive for only one month but it does not allow for upkeep, continued development, electricity and data costs...MMO's are not cheap to run.

 

The subscription model is the best model. It allows people to budget for their entertainment (15 bucks is the price of a single lunch), it allows for the game company to accurately project forecasts which help with continued development. Continued development helps games to stay fresh and fun.

 

I will gladly pay 20 dollars a month for a single shard game with the ability to make pretty much whatever you want and those creations have meaningful impact on the game. No other game has ever done what Dual is offering, none of them.

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For this kind of game, f2p is just impossible.. or not? What if a closed-multiplayer module was implemented for free? Or buy-to-play?

Okay, that would frustrating, but pay-to-play is much more frustrating, at least for me.

I've always preferred buy-to-play, especially with trial times avalaible. Yes, Dual Universe is a MMORPG, just like Eve or WoW, but..

If DU will be pay-to-play with no other options, I wouldn't pay more than 1$/month.

But I would pay 10-15$ for an instant buy with no problem - Dual Universe looks too cool to ignore it.

Good sir, if you were to fill your gas tank once, how long will your car be able to keep on going? Same goes with servers, salaries and company lifespans along with the game's life expectancy. A B2P model, does not apply for a game of Dual's scale. 

 

And as for a multiplayer module. That is not the market the server tech is built for. It would be the equivalent of using a flamethrower to kill a spider. Sure, it would be effective, but really not what the flamethrower was built for.

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I'm not a fan of the P2P model just from a # of users perspective. P2P is quickly becoming a somewhat antiquated model. Every new games with a P2P model released recently has failed.

 

P2P would restrict player populations significantly. This game seems like it will benefit from large player populations. Larger / more factions, more builders and economic participants. P2P < B2P < F2P in terms of player population.

 

P2P model with plex system is nice for those who want to play for free, provided they have the time enough to generate profit for said plex. This has its own downsides, like often requiring significant playtime investment, and essentially allowing RMT and allowing people to buy in game stuff.

 

P2P is also a mode of continuous support for the developer. I agree that something like that is valued, but there are other ways. The addition of a cash shop on top of a P2P model kinda feels like a cash grab. Its much easier to justify B2P w/ Cash shop because of the need for continuous income.

 

Additionally, it puts pressure on the player to make use of time paid. Say this game is running, and No Man's Sky is then released. It forces the player to make the decision of using the time paid effectively by playing DU, or playing the new hot game. This just kind of leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

 

For those reasons, I think I would prefer a B2P or F2P model.

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When I first found out about this game, I was all for F2P or B2P. 

 

However, over time I've come to realize, a game of this scale cannot be funded solely by a cash shop. It'll collapse within months of launch. 

 

I noticed some people saying that F2P games have larger playerbases/ are more popular. While that's true, more players isn't always a good thing. More people means more trolls, you know. 

 

Basically, P2P with plex is the way to go.

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I'm not a fan of the P2P model just from a # of users perspective. P2P is quickly becoming a somewhat antiquated model. Every new games with a P2P model released recently has failed.

 

P2P would restrict player populations significantly. This game seems like it will benefit from large player populations. Larger / more factions, more builders and economic participants. P2P < B2P < F2P in terms of player population.

 

P2P model with plex system is nice for those who want to play for free, provided they have the time enough to generate profit for said plex. This has its own downsides, like often requiring significant playtime investment, and essentially allowing RMT and allowing people to buy in game stuff.

 

P2P is also a mode of continuous support for the developer. I agree that something like that is valued, but there are other ways. The addition of a cash shop on top of a P2P model kinda feels like a cash grab. Its much easier to justify B2P w/ Cash shop because of the need for continuous income.

 

Additionally, it puts pressure on the player to make use of time paid. Say this game is running, and No Man's Sky is then released. It forces the player to make the decision of using the time paid effectively by playing DU, or playing the new hot game. This just kind of leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

 

For those reasons, I think I would prefer a B2P or F2P model.

MMORPGs that are P2P and fail, are usually WoW clones.

 

 

Lord of the Rip-offs online.

Wildcrap.

DC Universe On-fail.

Star Wars The Old Cashgrab..

Lame of Conan.

 

And the list of WoW clones goes on and I only included the ones who are still running to this day.  Guess what they all had also in common. Guess what else they had behind them all these games. Corporate ties who wanted a WoW clone to milk them money of the MMOs.

 

Guess what Dual Universe is.

 

 

The answer is unique. Where are you gonna go to get a procedural universe, with voxel  building AND flyable ships in an MMO setting? Good luck with Space Engineers. Have fun solo in No Man's Hype. Landmark...  *chuckles*, y-yeah, go to Landmark for anything but tourist simulation 2016.

 

 

If Dual is optimised and has attractions, it will be a new era for MMOs.

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Let me begin by quoting the OP:
 
We have synthesized a bit all the things that were taken into account, but you have here all the main reasons why we are aiming toward a Pay to Play model. In a nutshell, here's what we have planned:
  • Free Trial period: between 2 and 4 weeks.
  • Monthly subscription (optional with a PLEX-like system)
  • Possible (cosmetic only) Cash Shop. If deployed, we will make it in order that every month, players who have paid a subscription will be able to get some cash shop items for free.

 

At the moment I am playing Wildstar which I would describe a "Optional PTP" and similar to that which has been proposed  here. I think an Optional PTP, with incentives to do so, is a very viable option for both the Player Base and Game Company.

 

I have personally played many an MMORPG in the last 18 years or so (SWG, WOW, EQ2, RIFT, etc., etc.) and the ones just listed are not only PTP but also the ones I have spent the greatest time playing. Some died and some went in directions I did not like but in their original forms were extremely viable products.

 

Now it may be an outdated concept but I gain great pleasure knowing that in this small way, I "constantly" support a game monetarily, via such a PTP model.

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Let me begin by quoting the OP:
 
We have synthesized a bit all the things that were taken into account, but you have here all the main reasons why we are aiming toward a Pay to Play model. In a nutshell, here's what we have planned:
  • Free Trial period: between 2 and 4 weeks.
  • Monthly subscription (optional with a PLEX-like system)
  • Possible (cosmetic only) Cash Shop. If deployed, we will make it in order that every month, players who have paid a subscription will be able to get some cash shop items for free.

 

At the moment I am playing Wildstar which I would describe a "Optional PTP" and similar to that which has been proposed  here. I think an Optional PTP, with incentives to do so, is a very viable option for both the Player Base and Game Company.

 

I have personally played many an MMORPG in the last 18 years or so (SWG, WOW, EQ2, RIFT, etc., etc.) and the ones just listed are not only PTP but also the ones I have spent the greatest time playing. Some died and some went in directions I did not like but in their original forms were extremely viable products.

 

Now it may be an outdated concept but I gain great pleasure knowing that in this small way, I "constantly" support a game monetarily, via such a PTP model.

 

What do you mean by "optional PTP" ? You mean how Wildstar has its in-game gold to playtime extension system (WoW has it nowadays as well) ? Cause that is the EVE-PLEX system they proposed. To play without paying , you'll have to farm a lot, which brings forth the problem of a universal currency, which can be inflated quite rapidly (as in WoW's case). Having people buy PLEX and sell it in-game for player-made currencies, it's an organic and interesting game, but having a universal currency and PLEX, would be quite devastating, borderline Pay-To-Win in many cases.

 

Anf if you mean that the incentive is that your subscription is essentially a once-a-month buy from the cash shop, then yes, it is a good deal for both the players and the devs.

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By Optional PTP I simply mean there should be an incentive to subscribe but it is not mandatory. I do not ascribe to PTW, btw. I think the incentives should be Quality Of Life rewards only.

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By Optional PTP I simply mean there should be an incentive to subscribe but it is not mandatory. I do not ascribe to PTW, btw. I think the incentives should be Quality Of Life rewards only.

Like Planetside 2? Cause Planetside 2 is riddled with cheaters and troll level 1 accounts that simply load hacks and go around ruinng peoples' fun. The game NEEDS a pay-to-play model, with PLEX added, that other people buy with real money to sell to players who don't want to spend real money on their subscription for in-game currency. Free-to-Play is not an opton. Pay-to-Play with PLEX is the best option, as people can literally buy PLaytime EXtension as they would subscription either way, so the ones that do not pay for it are still not sinking the company. PLEX is an illusion of no need for subscription good sir, as someone has to buy it from the company itself.

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I prefer a sub to a cash shop. Too much pressure pushing people to spend cash in the cash shop.

I would probably end up spending more money per month than I would with a fixed sub.

Not necceserily. The Cash Shop should sell only cosmetic items or funky chroma packs - or as I suggested as an addition, voice pakcs. You do not need voice-packs or chroma packs, they offer no advantage over you in PvP or PvE. They are simply pretty things that people may want, and as the devs seem to explain it, if you pay with money to extend your playtime, you get the same money as Cash Shop coins. It's a good concept good sir.

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