Jump to content
NQ-Nyzaltar

DevBlog - Organizations: build your corporation, faction, nation or empire!

Recommended Posts

Erm... just because theres a lua interpreter integrated doesnt mean that we have access to textures for example :P

Let's discuss on PM, cause we two have the habbit of digressing off topic good sir :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

will you be able to build a ai or npc or automated empire or civilization or something?

 

Building an AI to, say, help you keep track of certain functions on your ship is expected to be possible. However, as of yet there aren't any plans to insert NPC's as far as we know, nor any automatons. Everything is player driven. Everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Building an AI to, say, help you keep track of certain functions on your ship is expected to be possible. However, as of yet there aren't any plans to insert NPC's as far as we know, nor any automatons. Everything is player driven. Everything.

Even the player is player driven!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arguably one or two organisational schemes are doomed to fail but not disallowing them will be half the fun. But the dev's should expect some serious acrimony when the Red System Socialist Republic collapses in a screaming heap. Technically all org taxes would be club dues; not totally enforceable because you can leave the organisation. The same with some other ideas, minimum wage, etc.  
Unless an org is able to actually trap players in a system and enslave or tax them these governments can't exist in any game.

It would be fun to watch some idiot try.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In looking at the organisational plan it appears to me that we could do crowdfunding with little trouble and a little code.

 

It also appears we could do a viable insurance industry. In that case the legates would be the insurers and the members paying premiums. However how do you know what's insured? A market based system may also be possible. In this case the insurance is an crafted element and item with a template in the recipe. The ship, base, cargo, has the element attached. The item is then sold to the insurance org generating a policy number; as long as they own it you have a premium duty to them and they have a payout obligation to you. Destroy the ship the tag element dies and alerts the insurer that he has a pay out to make. The tag can't be removed once placed. 

Yes this can be exploited but that only creates a new player role: detective, undercover insurance investigator, ship registry checker. 
It allows Eve style ship insurance but is almost fully player based. Insurers suffering losses to pirates may find paying bounty hunters cheaper than paying out insurance to cover ship losses.  

It allows several libertarian orgs because they want to use (test) insurances to replace several law and taxation systems. 

Server side it's just tracking a number linking an item and an element. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi NQ-Nyzaltar, I was wondering if it is possible to have organizations within organizations. For example later in the game universal mining organization wanted to join the organization of represented worlds .. without losing their identity and their own structure. The organization would still be a separate entity working within a larger organization like a complex political structure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, in essence an "alliance" of sorts or perhaps a multi-tier-system allowing organizations, alliances and federations or similar?

 

Sounds useful. Better than just having one organization entity you somehow have to deal with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi NQ-Nyzaltar, I was wondering if it is possible to have organizations within organizations. For example later in the game universal mining organization wanted to join the organization of represented worlds .. without losing their identity and their own structure. The organization would still be a separate entity working within a larger organization like a complex political structure.

Yes, you can have organisations that join larger organisations (like an alliance). "Ask Us Anything" response is here 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, in essence an "alliance" of sorts or perhaps a multi-tier-system allowing organizations, alliances and federations or similar?

 

Sounds useful. Better than just having one organization entity you somehow have to deal with.

My thoughts exactly!

adds a great level of depth and immersion to political and other aspects of the game

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all

 

While I know this is an old DevBlog post:

 

@NQ-Nyzaltar and friends:

 

Have you given consideration to modelling the organisations, including how they change over time and decisions that get made (alliances etc if it mattered), using the W3C's Organisation Ontology (https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-org/) and the Provenance Ontology / Data Model (https://www.w3.org/TR/prov-dm/ and https://www.w3.org/TR/prov-o/ )

 

FR: Avez-vous envisagé pour les organismes de modélisation , y compris la façon dont ils se rapportent, les changements au fil du temps et les décisions sont prises ( alliances , etc. ) , à l'aide du W3C Organisation Ontology ( https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-org/ ) et le Provenance modèle Ontology / données ( https://www.w3.org/TR/prov-dm/ et https://www.w3.org/TR/prov-o/ )

 

More than happy to assist with onboarding dev's / explaining it as needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Organisations thing sounds great as an idea, but there are a few things Id like to know:

It sounds like, the system would open the door for, say, Space Nazis.
There are people that would want to make that for sure. Either because they support that ideology IRL, or because they have seen Iron Sky, and want to Cosplay, like there will be Star Trek and Star Wars imitations.
How big would they need to get to get noticed? How big are they able to get, considering they are trying to play as space Nazis, and probably would be under attack constantly, and therefore most likely trapped inside a remote save zone soon, as everyone that doesnt want to play as a Nazi probably hates Nazis?
Disclaimer: I do not support Nazism nor do I agree with their Ideology. I just find them Interesting and like the Look of their Uniforms.

The Assumption is like a lot of players in one organisation, right?
Well, what if its actually a lot of organisations, but very few players per organisation?
Or, how succesfull can Players that do their thing on their own or in a small group become compared to a large empire or a giant amount of empires?
Say, If Im in a 12 people organisation that does not find any new members or legates other than me and the other 11, what are our chances to survive and thrive when surrounded by multiple organisations of 100+ members?
Can we still build large cities and something like that, or are we limited to one medium sized spaceship with a hidden base inside an asteroid?
And if we can, will those cities be empty of life?
Or can we populate them with NPCs that live there and mine and farm and defend the city on our behalf?

Another Scenario.
Lets say im an employee of a mineing company, and my Job is to harvest ore from an Astariod.
The Rhights, Duties and all of that allow me to do whatever it takes to mine the ore from that Rock, but the Amount of Ore I have to deliver per month in order to get paid instead of punished require me to mine about all the Time Im online with nothing to do to change that...
Can I leave the Company and join another one, where I can actually progress towards a goal I set myself?
And if so, who is gonna take my Job?
Some Player that is tired from being attacked from pirates and needs a break?
Some mineing robot?
An NPC?

In the first and second scenario, a small group struggles to survive because of the presence of multiple bigger ones.
In the last scenario, a single player is being surpressed by a large group he is a member in.
All of that can be summarized into one question: What stops the many from bullying the few? What stops the big fish from swallowing the smaller ones?
If that is not adressed, there will soon be three or four giant Empires that rule over everything, and new players/smaller organisations would have to go by their rules or leave the Game for good.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are many open questions, but I really love how this game doesn't want to be just a game, but some sort of integrated development environment for players to develop their own structures within this framework, even to the extend, that not just the usual 'material' objects are being developed by the player, but also more abstract objects like forms of social organisations. At least for those, who wish to do so. I'd really like to have a game, where all essential aspects become a competitive 'engineering' challenge between the players, which also allows so much creativity and variety to be set free, that all the people have at their heart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Organisations thing sounds great as an idea, but there are a few things Id like to know:

 

The Assumption is like a lot of players in one organisation, right?

Well, what if its actually a lot of organisations, but very few players per organisation?

Or, how succesfull can Players that do their thing on their own or in a small group become compared to a large empire or a giant amount of empires?

Say, If Im in a 12 people organisation that does not find any new members or legates other than me and the other 11, what are our chances to survive and thrive when surrounded by multiple organisations of 100+ members?

Can we still build large cities and something like that, or are we limited to one medium sized spaceship with a hidden base inside an asteroid?

And if we can, will those cities be empty of life?

Or can we populate them with NPCs that live there and mine and farm and defend the city on our behalf?

 

Another Scenario.

Lets say im an employee of a mineing company, and my Job is to harvest ore from an Astariod.

The Rhights, Duties and all of that allow me to do whatever it takes to mine the ore from that Rock, but the Amount of Ore I have to deliver per month in order to get paid instead of punished require me to mine about all the Time Im online with nothing to do to change that...

Can I leave the Company and join another one, where I can actually progress towards a goal I set myself?

And if so, who is gonna take my Job?

Some Player that is tired from being attacked from pirates and needs a break?

Some mineing robot?

An NPC?

 

In the first and second scenario, a small group struggles to survive because of the presence of multiple bigger ones.

In the last scenario, a single player is being surpressed by a large group he is a member in.

All of that can be summarized into one question: What stops the many from bullying the few? What stops the big fish from swallowing the smaller ones?

If that is not adressed, there will soon be three or four giant Empires that rule over everything, and new players/smaller organisations would have to go by their rules or leave the Game for good.

 

no bots, no NPC.

 

To your questions: what stops big groups from bullying smaller: technically nothing. Smaller groups will exist in the outer-rim and in small niches in the economy, but the big orgs will dominate everything. But big orgs can't be controlled that easily and individual members will fell alone or treated unfairly. Those players will look for smaller orgs. Another thing: your small group of 12 people won't even be worth bothering for a big empire.

 

If you are bored from mining, you can leave the org at any moment. Another member of that org will do your job, if no one is there that org has severe problems and better should change some policies to be more attractive to new members. Currently, every org is hunting for more members (exactly the opposite of the real life, where every person looks out for a job, not the best one).

 

To your last question: those 3 or 4 empires might control all the core systems, but as said earlier, the game world will be unlimited. The central systems will be controlled by big empires, the inner-rim will be colonised by smaller groups, the outer-rim will be very dangerous because of the pirates, but some lonely colonies might exist. (this might be the situation 1 or 2 years after the release).

 

And you might overestimate it. those empires won't have patrols everywhere. Also, most orgs that I have seen so far support free trade and are open for alliances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there a way for machinery to Identify players?

 

I'd imagine there would be a way to make some sort of player identifier that would let an object detect a player

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there a way for machinery to Identify players?

I hope so. How else would you be able to protect your construct actively (for passive protection we have shield generators or something similar - but that won't be enough) while being offline?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...