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Falling through voxel floors and elements


Novean-61657

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The issue: My Avatar keeps falling through already loaded voxel floors and elements. Now I remember something similar happening during Beta and I was advised to make double layer voxel floors. So I did (both the landing pad up top and the floor on the bottom). I still fall through them! Then I added Expanded Basic Containers XXL, standing (longest side top to bottom) and then adding another layer of flooring. Went into build mode, moved up into the same Static Core L and left build mode, thus dropping down. I went through a single voxel floor, an Expanded Basic Container XXL (the long way) and a double voxel floor.... This behaviour is not consistent, sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't...

 

I could understand this happening if the floor or element didn't yet load. Like what was happening with my glass floors... But it's all loaded, I see the voxels and element while falling through it.

 

What the heck!

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41 minutes ago, Bazzy_505 said:

this is a client side issue related to client performance on your end. Collision detection is entirely client side, Try upgrading your potato ;)

If that is true then it just means that the client side collision detection is badly implemented.

 

Proper implemented collision detection should always run 100% before drawing the frame. Meaning that if you have a potato the FPS would drop, but collision detection would always complete 100% for each frame to ensure correct behavior.

 

Anything else would be stupid and not something anyone with experience in game design would do.. ... So. ..ok...  maybe NQ did implement is that badly.

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3 hours ago, Bazzy_505 said:

this is a client side issue related to client performance on your end. Collision detection is entirely client side, Try upgrading your potato ;)

The game performed better with hardware at and slightly below minimum specifications during beta than now with any hardware.  If this is a client issue then it is code related, not hardware. 

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2 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

If that is true then it just means that the client side collision detection is badly implemented.

 

Proper implemented collision detection should always run 100% before drawing the frame. Meaning that if you have a potato the FPS would drop, but collision detection would always complete 100% for each frame to ensure correct behavior.

 

Anything else would be stupid and not something anyone with experience in game design would do.. ... So. ..ok...  maybe NQ did implement is that badly.

 

you are absoultely correct, and you've been around long enough to know whichever way the wind blows. but as a user, all you can do it throw a few potatoes in the basket.

 

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10 minutes ago, Wyndle said:

The game performed better with hardware at and slightly below minimum specifications during beta than now with any hardware.  If this is a client issue then it is code related, not hardware. 

quality of NQ coding aside, processors "slightly" below mininum specs are so old they're not even supported by current windows platform DU runs on ...

 

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2 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

If that is true then it just means that the client side collision detection is badly implemented.

 

Proper implemented collision detection should always run 100% before drawing the frame. Meaning that if you have a potato the FPS would drop, but collision detection would always complete 100% for each frame to ensure correct behavior.

 

Anything else would be stupid and not something anyone with experience in game design would do.. ... So. ..ok...  maybe NQ did implement is that badly.

 

I mean, it's hard to expect robust collision detection from an engine no one really uses for games.....

 

DU is the most complex game that's used Unigen by far.

 

Unigen was picked because of inexperience; they believed they needed a 64-bit coordinate system (spoiler alert: they didn't) and that it was therefore the only option. 

 

Hell, Unigen doesn't even talk about games as a main use case on their homepage...gaming is an afterthought stuffed into their "Community SDK" section, which is either free or $150/month.

 

This just isn't Unigen's main business at all. 

 

If you're going to "save time" by picking a game engine, it's common sense to pick an engine people actually use to make games.

 

It's yet another choice driven from inexperience early on that made DU's development far more difficult long term...it fits their culture of rejecting norms in this industry because they believe they know better. 

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9 minutes ago, Bazzy_505 said:

quality of NQ coding aside, processors "slightly" below mininum specs are so old they're not even supported by current windows platform DU runs on ...

 

So Windows 10 will no longer run on a 7th generation core i3?  What is this sorcery?

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7 minutes ago, blundertwink said:

 

Hell, Unigen doesn't even talk about games as a main use case on their homepage...gaming is an afterthought stuffed into their "Community SDK" section, which is either free or $150/month.

At one point in the past the Unigen website featured DU/NQ.  After my copium from the launch hype wore off I went to the Unigen site and couldn't find any meaningful mention or assets from DU/NQ.  I don't know the story but that didn't help my confidence in NQ to be pulled from the engine's site. 

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1 minute ago, Wyndle said:

At one point in the past the Unigen website featured DU/NQ.  After my copium from the launch hype wore off I went to the Unigen site and couldn't find any meaningful mention or assets from DU/NQ.  I don't know the story but that didn't help my confidence in NQ to be pulled from the engine's site. 

 

It's still there...but gaming in general isn't featured by Unigen very prominently.

 

You can find it as an example under "Made by Unigen" after clicking on their "Community SDK" tier. It does show one DU screenshot, but that's it. 

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9 hours ago, Shredder said:

Try making the voxel floors 2 blocks thick

I admit that I don't know much about this stuff, but can anyone enlighten me why voxel layers matter given that when converted to a mesh only the surface (triangles) are downloaded to the client (which renders them)?

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8 minutes ago, JayleBreak said:

I admit that I don't know much about this stuff, but can anyone enlighten me why voxel layers matter given that when converted to a mesh only the surface (triangles) are downloaded to the client (which renders them)?

By increasing the distance between the two surfaces that gives more time to process collision with the second surface layer.  My guess, anyway. 

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4 minutes ago, JayleBreak said:

I admit that I don't know much about this stuff, but can anyone enlighten me why voxel layers matter given that when converted to a mesh only the surface (triangles) are downloaded to the client (which renders them)?

 

A thicker collider reduces the chance that something will "fall through" because of how collision detections and physics collide. 

 

An object that's moving too quickly might pass right through a thinner collider if it travels "past" the collider in a single frame.

 

A thicker collider increases the chance that the collider will be "hit" if an object is moving, especially if the object is moving at high speeds.

 

This is why fast moving bullets or objects don't usually use colliders in this way, they use raycasts. 

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Hmm, do you find this is occurring immediately after leaving build mode with consistency? Since adding thickness is not working perhaps this could be attributed to the intermediate stage of reloading your construct after making a change in build mode. There is a small window whereby your client replaces your construct's mesh with a lower resolution version while it waits for the server to send the detailed one that includes your most recent changes. The length of this window is highly dependent on things like construct complexity and network speed. Consider reaching out to NQ support with your construct ID, they should be able to pinpoint the cause and can likely offer you suggestions and/or raise the issue with the dev team.

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2 hours ago, blundertwink said:

 

I mean, it's hard to expect robust collision detection from an engine no one really uses for games.....

 

DU is the most complex game that's used Unigen by far.

 

Unigen was picked because of inexperience; they believed they needed a 64-bit coordinate system (spoiler alert: they didn't) and that it was therefore the only option. 

 

Hell, Unigen doesn't even talk about games as a main use case on their homepage...gaming is an afterthought stuffed into their "Community SDK" section, which is either free or $150/month.

 

This just isn't Unigen's main business at all. 

 

If you're going to "save time" by picking a game engine, it's common sense to pick an engine people actually use to make games.

 

It's yet another choice driven from inexperience early on that made DU's development far more difficult long term...it fits their culture of rejecting norms in this industry because they believe they know better. 

 

rather, after very limited succes unigine1 they started to focus heavily on the visualization niche with unigine2 with the usual game logics backened which we came to acvcosutomed in  SDKs like Unreal being very much an afterthought at that point.

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5 hours ago, Bazzy_505 said:

this is a client side issue related to client performance on your end. Collision detection is entirely client side, Try upgrading your potato ;)

My 8 year old potato is running perfectly fine thank you very much!

i7-5820k (6 core machine) running a GTX970

Will be running shortly to Geforce Now as I'm skipping the current PC/GPU powertrip (for now)...

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1 hour ago, Cergorach said:

My 8 year old potato is running perfectly fine thank you very much!

i7-5820k (6 core machine) running a GTX970

Will be running shortly to Geforce Now as I'm skipping the current PC/GPU powertrip (for now)...

ms has dropped support for haswell lga2011 platform almost 2 years ago, nvidia dropped driver support of 970 for almost about the same time.  You can expect these issue mount up with increasing number of apss going forward.

 

as for raw CPU performace even the bottom of the barel 12400F is 50% faster at half the power; selling  for around 140 USD these days.

the oldest nvidia gpu still in production, 2060 Super is twice as powerful as 970 and can be bought new for under 200 USD even today.

DDR4 B660 motherboards go as low 90 USD in retail

 

unlike 2 years prior, it's a actually a very good time to upgrade right now, retail prices are at rock bottom, which is rare moment in time amongst steeply rising cost per waffer for leading edge production for upcomming hardware regardless of vendor.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Bazzy_505 said:

ms has dropped support for haswell lga2011 platform almost 2 years ago, nvidia dropped driver support of 970 for almost about the same time.  You can expect these issue mount up with increasing number of apss going forward.

 

as for raw CPU performace even the bottom of the barel 12400F is 50% faster at half the power; selling  for around 140 USD these days.

the oldest nvidia gpu still in production, 2060 Super is twice as powerful as 970 and can be bought new for under 200 USD even today.

DDR4 B660 motherboards go as low 90 USD in retail

 

unlike 2 years prior, it's a actually a very good time to upgrade right now, retail prices are at rock bottom, which is rare moment in time amongst steeply rising cost per waffer for leading edge production for upcomming hardware regardless of vendor.

MS has not dropped support for the 5000 series on W10 (EOL Oct 14, 2025), nor has Nvidia dropped driver support for the 900 series of video cards. W11 indeed has no official support for this cpu.

 

The issue is not money. The issue is power consumption. I run two AMD 4800U (8c/16t, 64GB RAM, 2TB+4TB SSD) with integrated graphics (8GB assigned), passively cooled they are completely silent, those are also at least twice as powerful CPU wise and not that far behind in GPU power as you might think of integrated graphics. They only use a small amount of power compared to the old machine and tiny amounts of power compared to more modern stuff. I work from home and it's often at least 50 hrs a week, but probably more in the 80-120 hrs a week that my workstation is on. The amount of power it uses is wasteful and with the current pricing of power around here, just not a good idea. It's also not fun running during the summer without airco. The a fore mentioned 4800U machines will work as my main machines in the future and I'll be PC gaming on my Steam Deck, anything it can't handle I'll run via a cloud service (Geforce Now for now)... I'm just working through 10TB of stuff on the old machine and get it well sorted on the NAS, I'm also working on changing my workflow, etc. (moving over takes some time)

 

Those 4800U will actually run DU at lowest settings (only draws 40W). During beta they did a TON of mission running. Nothing too complex or I will have issues.

 

The newer generations of desktop CPUs and GPUs use way too much power and generate way too much heat. Especially with the hot summers this is going to force me use an airco. For what? A couple of games that refuse to optimize? There's a ton of good and fun games I can play on a Steam Deck. And with  €100-€200/year I can run something like DU on a cloud service. I can run for years on the cloud for the cost of a new machine, especially when you add power costs...

 

What I find strange is that everything seems to run fine in DU in somewhat lower settings on my pc, but this basic feature (this is a floor) doesn't often seem to work ok. If stuff like this continues at a certain point DU is no longer viable as a game/experience, beyond it's already massive shortcomings.

Edited by Cergorach
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4 hours ago, Cergorach said:

MS has not dropped support for the 5000 series on W10 (EOL Oct 14, 2025), nor has Nvidia dropped driver support for the 900 series of video cards. W11 indeed has no official support for this cpu.

 

 

you are correct there, MS hasn't dropped support for hashwell-e/ws, because it never officially supported this microarchitecture  in the first place on win10; official support list starts at broadwell and newer.

 

nvidia officially dropped maxwell driver support ( which gtx 970 is a member of)  in mid 2021, the last game  ready driver for it was released in august 2021, there hasn't been game ready driver update for it since then.

 

 

and i do get your concern about power usage, my wife and i mostly work from home office and have typically 4 systems running in our home office during standard office hours and another 2 churning away in rack 24/7 ,  and that even not counting in vpn routers, switches all other things typically needed in the setup.

 

I personally work on 11700KF based pc, which is considered quite a powerhog, and yet typical package power on that hovers around 30W-40W and entire system typically draws little short 130W, and that already with my cintiq factored in. So you shouldn't really belive all the horrow stories you read on internet

 

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