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Talemai is solid proof that ore distribution with infinite ore pools that can be claimed is terrible for game


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On 12/24/2022 at 11:36 AM, Cergorach said:

Good information, but...

12x18x12x4=10,368 scans

12 people, 18 scanners, 12 hours, 4 scans per hour, assuming 100% efficiency.

Talemai has 52,922 tiles. The tiles on the moons is another ~7,500 tiles. Minus a few that aren't player accessible. That meant that in 12 hours you did (at best) 1 in 6 tiles scanned, which is insane in any world! 😉 But not the majority of the planet scanned. Or did you mean the majority of the T2+ tiles found?

 

@KezzleTo fully map the world and moons,, a 12 man team working at close to 100% efficiency would need to work weeks to get it done. That is pretty hardcore behavior imho... That they needed only 12 hours of hardcore activity to get most of the T2+ patches is what's rubbing folks the wrong way. But that's mostly by people that don't want to do that level of work, organization and/or brainpower...

 

Imagine how much quanta a dedicated team of 12 players would be able to gather doing organized missions effectively? Week in, week out...

 

I wont go into the fine detail of our patterns etc but we have scanned enough to know when you find X, Y isnt going to be 1 hex away so we adjust. We located everything of value in 66% of the planet, of course some people did beat us to things we would have eventually found as we moved across the planet. 

The moon is a whole other ball game as it revolves around 1-2 massive blobs as seen on the moons at launch and requires a totally different tactic.

 

As I say our doors are open, we are always recruiting. The more players who do this with us the more we get, but in turn this will cause debate within the community.

 

I have seen organised mission teams do insane quanta per day, we dont do it as I find mission running boring and too afk for me. Scanning at least gives me 7mins in between scans to shop on the market or work on the factory : )

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On 12/20/2022 at 9:40 AM, Cergorach said:

There's a reason why since 1.2 release the DU AH has had a ton of T2 and even T3 flowers and patches on it. The folks doing the actual finding are not interested anymore in T2/T3... My assumption is that it is either not worth their time anymore and/or they already have enough of it on Alioth or any of the other safe planets/moons...

 

No this is untrue, We were interested in T2/T3/T4, what was listed was the flowers we didnt need. The best ones we kept and the rest we sold to the open market. 

We only have t1 flowers on alioth as we used calibration tiles like everyone else for our ore : )

T3/T4/T5 on Jago was the same, we kept what we needed sold what we didnt. I know some orgs kept everything preventing access to those fields from the majority of players but I can confirm on Jago we sold many flowers. TRIs to players and orgs of all sizes.

 

We will do the same on the next planets, we arent hoarders, we just love scanning : ) its like the rush you get from scratching a scratch card : )

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The problem is not having dedicated scanning orgs, but that they are able to effectively scan entire planets and by that gain a disproportional large control over the game.

 

And again, not the scanner orgs fault since they are just "making their own game" in one of the sadly few ways possible right now.

 

And no NQ, the solution is not to increase tax, or to time gate scanning even more, or to make scanning units even heavier and more expensive or any such limitations. That would just make the game even more unplayable for beginners and solo players so that orgs would dominate even more, just like with every other &#*! feature where you have 'balanced' creatives and solo players out of the game.

 

The solution is to fix the fundamental issues in the game (will never happen, so all this is just hypothetical) and then enable mining and distribute A LOT more ore, so that we can have access to resources and actually be creative and "make our own game" again.

 

In other words turn back the clock to how it was earlier, and then start working from there to give us the game you said you would make.

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personally i have stopped playing already due to i cant sell my ore for any value worth it. and i dont like missions. and unless i can get somthing to play for or hope for the game is dead to me. not being able to aquire anything except t-1 ore and then not being able to sell it to even pay for tile rent and blueprints ? seems like the developers want to have a small server.   very small....

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The planet is horrible, markets are empty, lack of t1 ores, starting there is not just challenging.

 

What we keep getting is ways to make DU even more a sink or overly complex without real issues solved or stuff like ava added. 

 

Even in the academical world K.I.S.S should be well known. DU is absolutely not K.I.S.S. 

 

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5 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:

The planet is horrible, markets are empty, lack of t1 ores.

 

Well they must be doing something right. If your complaining there is to little t1 ore and others are complaining there is to much t1 ore..........   as for being empty. , du is huge, you can live out in the middle of nowhere and never see another player. Or you can live with a group of people and see hundreds at a time. 

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42 minutes ago, RugesV said:

as for being empty. , du is huge, you can live out in the middle of nowhere and never see another player. Or you can live with a group of people and see hundreds at a time. 

 

Hundreds at a time, eh? Have a recent screenshot of this group of "hundreds" that you can see at the same time...? 

 

There's times when hundreds of people would constitute the entire server population, so I'm wondering where you're seeing all these people. It's just not factually true to suggest DU is a place where you will see "hundreds at a time".

 

When people say that DU is empty, they mean that there's very few players and few features of interest in general.

 

No one is going to claim that exploring in DU is fun because the worlds are so full of stuff to see.

 

No one is talking about the how many square meters of physical (boring) land there is...that's like saying that the Nevada desert is empty, then someone responding that it's actually huge. Not really the point. 

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15 hours ago, blundertwink said:

 

Hundreds at a time, eh? Have a recent screenshot of this group of "hundreds" that you can see at the same time...? 

PVP event 2 weeks ago had 150-200 ship in it. No idea how many people on each one. but I know a couple that had 5 players on each. Granted that is more of an event,  But Helios is huge and your just not going to see players conglomerating together except for these events.  And there are allot of markets in game. Some that have only had a handful of players stop by. but there are others like market 6 that constantly have players stopping by.  Or some of the larger player markets that almost always have a player at them. 

 

Now I dont disagree that the game could use 10,000 online players at a time.  Would definitely add in allot more excitement.  Granted instead of you coming in here complaining that its to empty, There would be other people in here complaining its too crowded. 

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3 hours ago, RugesV said:

Granted instead of you coming in here complaining that its to empty, There would be other people in here complaining its too crowded. 

 

This idea that no matter what someone will complain, so therefore all complaints are moot is boring and pointless. 

 

Anyone that whines about "complaints" on a forum where the stated goal is to collect feedback doesn't seem to understand what feedback even is...opposite opinions don't cancel out like maths, they are just different opinions with different reasoning.

 

The existence of opposite opinions doesn't mean anything other than this is a forum where people have opinions, so I really don't get what your point is with this. 

 

This explanation of "the game isn't empty" is that the larger markets "almost always" have "a player" there.

 

That...kind of proves my point, if anything. The game is empty and you have to go out of your way to maybe see a player...never mind actually interacting with them, because there's few ways to do that. 

 

If the most recent example of players interacting in any real meaningful way is a pre-arranged PvP event from weeks ago...that's not helping to show that DU is not an empty game. 

 

Having less than 10,000 people online at a time during peak means it is an empty game, especially with DU being so new (when it's supposed to be riding its height of popularity as a sub-based game). 

 

This is just an undeniable fact of the MMO genre: a few hundred people playing at a time during peak isn't an MMO.

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Old SWG mining model was much better. Ore deposits had similar distribution (big medium and small spots), also need to be scanned, but was temporary and respawned after being mined out or in several days.

Something similar, modified closer to DU mechanics should work better. Because current resource mining on tiles is very boring. You either have some good tiles and do boring calibrations weekly, and have no idea what to do with all Quanta you gain. Or have almost no chance to claim any good tiles since they all taken.

 

Same and worse problem with T5 alien resources. The only big PvP guild easily denied everyone's access to everything in T5, warp beacons included. This does not looks healthy for the game. There is no competition, nor any pvp activity or conflicts. One guild has it all. Rest of game audience have to play without tier 5 at all. Does not looks as a good game design.

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On 1/9/2023 at 3:35 AM, Dixiii said:

There is no competition, nor any pvp activity or conflicts. One guild has it all. Rest of game audience have to play without tier 5 at all. Does not looks as a good game design.

 

Its not only disign problem, but demographic one. Just very little people can be bothered to oppose them.

 

Same picture can be seen in sometimes dying p4f games with some pvp, when its like 5 people for sever, you think you can chill, but for some reason some guy with level 1000 and 10000 hours playtime still there, stalking everyone for hours to kill in one shot. Sadness of this trully horiffiying.

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4 hours ago, le_souriceau said:

Its not only disign problem, but demographic one. Just very little people can be bothered to oppose them.

I think it's NOT a design problem or even a population problem. I actually think that there's enough people for this to not be an issue.

 

BUT: It's not even four months since launch, relatively few people see any real NEED for T5 stuff, it would be nice, but certainly not necessary. That means there is very little real motivation among the DU 'masses' to gang up and kick the 'ruling' corp from their perch. I suspect it might take 6-12 months for that to actually/structurally change.

 

There's currently a single Plasma being auctioned at the DU Auction House on Discord for more then 400 million quanta (EDIT: it sold for 718.5 million quanta!), I suspect that this will eventually go down drastically. Because Big Corp X can only stockpile so much, they can actually use it, but then if they loose a ship in pvp, T5 stuff will get onto the market... People might even risk reprocessing those things to get that Plasma back and build other things...

 

See it as a House in control of Dune, the Spice must flow (if there is enough demand for it) or people will get motivated to kick you out (or they might get motivated anyway, because it's their nature)... ;)

Edited by Cergorach
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5 hours ago, Cergorach said:

See it as a House in control of Dune, the Spice must flow (if there is enough demand for it) or people will get motivated to kick you out (or they might get motivated anyway, because it's their nature)... ;)

 

That would be the case if playing DU was a requirement of life.  Its not.  Much more likely people will just get frustrated and leave.

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