Talemai is solid proof that ore distribution with infinite ore pools that can be claimed is terrible for game

[Knight-Sevy]

I just saw that NQ made a discreet effort to help multi-accounts survive in the game (it's complicated for them).
Now there are 7 possible mission choices instead of 5.

They will always be able to find their common mission more easily on all their alts before making a transport.

Thank you NQ for helping this portion of the community that was certainly in quanta trouble.

[TonyTones]

1 hour ago, Knight-Sevy said:

I just saw that NQ made a discreet effort to help multi-accounts survive in the game 

 

Almost like the whole plan is to get people to sub multiple accounts.

[Atmosph3rik]

On 12/15/2022 at 11:40 AM, Wyndle said:

The issue isn't that we know there will be more planets coming online that we can prep for.  The issue is that a select few likely had a release date weeks in advance to organize and stage assets.  The issue is that NQ has been caught repeatedly giving a game breaking advantage to a select few in a game where resource scarcity is a feature.  The issue is that NQ released ONE planet despite it being plain to see that doing so would further advantage those who have already been advantaged even without insider info.

 

 

I don't really see what kind of advantage you're talking about.  I knew that more planets would be released, just like everyone else.  So i made sure i had three territory scanners, and a bunch of territory units ready and waiting.

 

So what advantage would i gain from knowing when the next new planet would be released weeks in advance?  Assuming i already have the territory scanners, and the TCUs anyway.  I could request the day off from work, but other than that i can't think of any advantage it would give me.

 

I found out when they were releasing the new planet at the same time as everyone else.  When i saw the teaser clip they released the day before.

 

That was plenty enough time to fuel up a ship, load up the territory scanners and TCUs, and set an alarm for 5am.

 

That's all the advanced notice i needed to give myself the same advantage as everyone else.

 

Knowing weeks in advance wouldn't have gotten someone to Talemai any faster than me.

 

[Wyndle]

4 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

 

 

I don't really see what kind of advantage you're talking about. 

 

If you know when and roughly where with two weeks advance notice you could organize and stage enough equipment just out atmo range to log in and land with an entire fleet of scanners for your org to hit en masse well ahead of almost everyone else.  When resources are scarce; knowledge is power.

[Atmosph3rik]

4 hours ago, Wyndle said:

If you know when and roughly where with two weeks advance notice you could organize and stage enough equipment just out atmo range to log in and land with an entire fleet of scanners for your org to hit en masse well ahead of almost everyone else.  When resources are scarce; knowledge is power.

 

 

It only takes a few minutes to warp somewhere with a ship full of equipment.  And if you're parked in space, you can warp immediately, as soon as you log in.

 

People were prepared because everyone knew they were going to release new planets eventually.  And people got there quickly because of warp.

 

I don't see any reason to think anyone had any kind of advanced knowledge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Novean-61657]

@Atmosph3rik The issue is more basic: how did you have the time to do all that scanning without notice? It's the middle of a work week. For many, that patch released in the middle of a working day... If people knew in advance, they could have planned around it (taking a day/afternoon off for example)...

[Atmosph3rik]

5 hours ago, Cergorach said:

@Atmosph3rik The issue is more basic: how did you have the time to do all that scanning without notice? It's the middle of a work week. For many, that patch released in the middle of a working day... If people knew in advance, they could have planned around it (taking a day/afternoon off for example)...

 

 

Not everyone has a traditional work week.  There are people playing DU during the day in the middle of a work week every day, that isn't out of the ordinary.

 

It would be bad if NQ was leaking stuff like this, but there is zero evidence that they did.

 

I think the real issue here is that NQ could have given more advanced notice.  And they didn't.  And people are frustrated about that.

 

My feeling is that NQ holds back on sharing stuff like this ahead of time, with the intent of NOT giving anyone an advantage.  They think if they tell us ahead of time, the more serious players will have a larger advantage.

 

But i think what actually happens, is that serious players predict when stuff is going to happen and are prepared anyway.  So all NQ accomplishes by holding back the info, is putting casual players at an even larger disadvantage.

 

And i think by sharing info ahead of time, NQ would actually level the playing field by making sure everyone has the same information.

 

 

[Novean-61657]

1 hour ago, Atmosph3rik said:

It would be bad if NQ was leaking stuff like this, but there is zero evidence that they did.

They did. There is actual video evidence on that, but I don't want to get anyone in trouble, so I won't be linking that.

 

As for non-traditional jobs, those aren't the norm, so for anyone that doesn't have a flexible job that sucks.

 

That doesn't mean that Joe Smuck would have been able to get that 600 million quanta patch of Garnarite or that huge patch of Gold Nuggets on one of the moons. But it destroys that illusion totally when some people got advance warning and the rest didn't...

 

I spent day 1 scanning some tiles, got disillusioned and went home. Afterwards when the resource patches show up on the auction sites, I laugh so hard that it hurts... The T2+ tiles absolutely suck! It's almost as if the Beta was a completely other game when it comes to automining! So yes, someone just made 600M quanta on a tile patch that maybe cost 25M and oodles of time/luck... How many didn't? Would a two week heads up make any difference? No. It's just very sloppy from NQ's end.

[Atmosph3rik]

20 minutes ago, Cergorach said:

They did. There is actual video evidence on that, but I don't want to get anyone in trouble, so I won't be linking that.

 

 

Are we talking about info that was in the livestream the night before?  We all had access to that video at the same time.  If some people managed to get an idea of where the planet would be located from the livestream, good for them.  I didn't even think of that.  But again, that saved them a few minutes of Warp time at best.

 

I saw the teaser video they posted earlier in the day with footage of a new planet, and the caption "posted with no context".  Since i was able to figure out based on that, that a new planet would be released the next day, does that mean i had advanced knowledge too?  Was that teaser video a leak?

[CptLoRes]

I don't care if the information was leaked or not.

 

Because the real problem here is being able to completely control a number of limited finite resources in a MMO, and then being able to hold them indefinitely. That is just bad design.

 

And being able to it in 24h or less is ridiculously bad design..

 

So thank <entity> we had this long beta before release, where NQ worked actively with the community to get all the kinks out.

[Novean-61657]

16 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:

Are we talking about info that was in the livestream the night before?

No.

[le_souriceau]

19 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:

It would be bad if NQ was leaking stuff like this, but there is zero evidence that they did.

 

All previous major updates/economy-sensetive changes were leaked before. People knew weeks before and used this inside, including big RMT schemes. So, its less about evidence, more like about hope anything changed and NQ so to say plugged the gap. I personally doubt it.

[CyberDay]

On 12/17/2022 at 7:44 PM, Atmosph3rik said:

 

 

I don't really see what kind of advantage you're talking about.  I knew that more planets would be released, just like everyone else.  So i made sure i had three territory scanners, and a bunch of territory units ready and waiting.

 

So what advantage would i gain from knowing when the next new planet would be released weeks in advance?  Assuming i already have the territory scanners, and the TCUs anyway.  I could request the day off from work, but other than that i can't think of any advantage it would give me.

 

I found out when they were releasing the new planet at the same time as everyone else.  When i saw the teaser clip they released the day before.

 

That was plenty enough time to fuel up a ship, load up the territory scanners and TCUs, and set an alarm for 5am.

 

That's all the advanced notice i needed to give myself the same advantage as everyone else.

 

Knowing weeks in advance wouldn't have gotten someone to Talemai any faster than me.

 

 

20 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:

 

 

Not everyone has a traditional work week.  There are people playing DU during the day in the middle of a work week every day, that isn't out of the ordinary.

 

It would be bad if NQ was leaking stuff like this, but there is zero evidence that they did.

 

I think the real issue here is that NQ could have given more advanced notice.  And they didn't.  And people are frustrated about that.

 

My feeling is that NQ holds back on sharing stuff like this ahead of time, with the intent of NOT giving anyone an advantage.  They think if they tell us ahead of time, the more serious players will have a larger advantage.

 

But i think what actually happens, is that serious players predict when stuff is going to happen and are prepared anyway.  So all NQ accomplishes by holding back the info, is putting casual players at an even larger disadvantage.

 

And i think by sharing info ahead of time, NQ would actually level the playing field by making sure everyone has the same information.

 

 

Ah, you must be relatively new and/or out of the loop. Its almost common knowledge at this point certain groups get several weeks of heads up of upcoming changes. People knew the calibration charge change was coming, that 100% bots were not coming back, etc. You can't really post evidence as that generally ends up with a ban on your account. Its out there though. People had weeks ahead of the official announcement to get time off, set up scanning schedules, move large amounts, 100+, scanners out to the area a day or two in advance, buy out the scanner market. There are a ton of red flags on their own with almost every patch that by themselves might make you think that something weird was happening, but when it happens every time, well, when there is smoke, there is likely fire in this case. 

[Kezzle]

2 hours ago, CyberDay said:

 

Ah, you must be relatively new and/or out of the loop. Its almost common knowledge at this point certain groups get several weeks of heads up of upcoming changes.

Sheesh. If it's that endemic, they probably get told where the Gud Tiles are going to be, too, so they can home straight in on whatever passes for the Mother Lode. I mean, if you're gonna do this sort of thing, why be half-assed about it?

[CyberDay]

20 minutes ago, Kezzle said:

Sheesh. If it's that endemic, they probably get told where the Gud Tiles are going to be, too, so they can home straight in on whatever passes for the Mother Lode. I mean, if you're gonna do this sort of thing, why be half-assed about it?

The seed is randomly generating the tiles. NQ doesn't even know where they are until the planet itselfs been generated. You are giving them too much credit on what they know as far as the tiles go.

[Pleione]

On 12/14/2022 at 1:52 PM, Rokkur said:

I believe a set it and forget it model to owning mineral resources is flawed.

With the exception of Haven & Sanct which should remain roughly 100 L/h of each T1...

All tiles outside of Haven/Sanct should do weekly rotations, not from a realism sense, but from a preventing monopoly style I have Parks Place you lose point.
From a technical perspective, it is simply regenerating the tile resource heat map every Tuesday during maintenance. Each week players could then scan to find better tiles, pick up where they were or stay put. Thus giving back a utility to routine scanning for players.

Additionally it would encourage people to HQ tiles either for their aesthetic location, to build long term homes, or to simply wait with tile inactive until the RNG of the heatmap gives favorable resources worth the weekly taxes. In the future this rotation of resources would prevent orgs like Legion from snowballing their wins and driving everyone out of the best resource location on future pvp planets IF territory warfare ever comes. Thus also changing the dynamic of the battlefield, location of the fight, encouraging logistics, hauling etc.

This is both technically pheasable and likely low hanging fruit for implementation, the only real problem is to get the community as a whole to agree it is the solution they want. That is unfortunately very unlikely as those that "have" want to maintain status quo, those that "have not" feel they never had a chance, and those that haven't come have no idea what they are missing out on and the advantages to owning such sizeable resources.

P.S. I assume it is a heat map because ore distribution for tiles seems to remarkably resemble the mechanics for our mining unit heat maps for hot/cold spots.

 

I could suppose this IF resource allocations were put back to Beta level.  No way do we want to spend the time to rescan everything every week... that would become a full time, 12 hours a day, job.

 

Now... if they adopted my previous suggestion of making scans public, so that we could focus on only scanning tiles nobody else has... then ok.

[Aseennav]

Soon as Territory warfare is in... I am out and I am sure many others will be too.

[Wyndle]

On 12/18/2022 at 1:07 AM, Atmosph3rik said:

It only takes a few minutes to warp somewhere with a ship full of equipment.  And if you're parked in space, you can warp immediately, as soon as you log in.

 

People were prepared because everyone knew they were going to release new planets eventually.  And people got there quickly because of warp.

 

I don't see any reason to think anyone had any kind of advanced knowledge.

Warp cells have a cost associated.  The scenario I described was an entire fleet of scanning ships slow boated to nearby before the planet was loaded, at a much lower cost than anyone using warp would face.  Two days notice isn't outside the realm of possible for this same thing to happen if you already have a fleet of scanners ready to go at a moment's notice but the ability to customize your equipment for the players confirmed to have the day off... 

 

On that note, I wonder how many stations are within 10su of other planets that are currently not there and if that should be the next focus for those still interested in what NQ is promising.  Or would there be regular sweeps looking to blow up other people's stuff?

[Aseennav]

13 minutes ago, Pleione said:

 

I could suppose this IF resource allocations were put back to Beta level.  No way do we want to spend the time to rescan everything every week... that would become a full time, 12 hours a day, job.

 

Now... if they adopted my previous suggestion of making scans public, so that we could focus on only scanning tiles nobody else has... then ok.

Starwars galaxies did not have territories that players owned.

The way it worked is that each player has a given amount of property slots per character.

This allowed a player to place houses or harvesters up to that limit per toon.

Resources would rotate and players would have to move their harvesters to find a new heat map for each resource.

Players in the game world could place harvesters in the footprint of the heat map which varied from 100% to 0% and the space is determined by the space used by the harvester.

This way players have a limited amount of claims they could stake and gives each player an opportunity to find a good resource for each rotation. Extraction was based on the mining unit/harvester used. So if a player with a Samll Harvester can get 8l/h a player with a large harvester could get 20l/h and that extraction rate was based on the ore density of the heatmap where the unit was placed.

 

[Pleione]

On 12/17/2022 at 6:18 PM, TonyTones said:

 

Almost like the whole plan is to get people to sub multiple accounts.

 

Well duh... its either that or drive everyone to drag as many friends as possible into the game.  Of course, that seldom lasts, but subscriptions are subscriptions - cash to the bank.

[Pleione]

3 hours ago, Kezzle said:

Sheesh. If it's that endemic, they probably get told where the Gud Tiles are going to be, too, so they can home straight in on whatever passes for the Mother Lode. I mean, if you're gonna do this sort of thing, why be half-assed about it?

 

And questions have been raised along those lines...  some speculate that its not really random, but based, at least loosely, on tile number.  e.g.  The tile number is the seed for the heat map, and that the algo has been leaked allowing those that know it the knowledge of where to go.

[Novean-61657]

15 minutes ago, Pleione said:

...that the algo has been leaked allowing those that know it the knowledge of where to go.

Or, what I'm suspecting more, someone did the math on the planets already present and and used that on the new planets... There's also a certain symmetry on Talemai on the patches claimed those first 24 hours...

[Aseennav]

I suspected cheating for a long time now.

I cannot believe that I take 500 scans of a planet and I can't hit a single T2 while all of the sudden people seem to be going directly to the good tiles. IT simply does not make sense. 

Even statistically speaking I cannot have that bad a luck finding a t2 tile even if it's a 2l/h tile that leads me to a higher concentration.

I can scan a double rose i/e 20 tiles and move away 3 tiles space between another 20 tile rose and i should be able to hit something at some point but no, i get no hits.

Look at the attached scan of a thades moon. 

I should have been able to hit at least something there, but the distribution used seems to be hard set and not randomly generated.

This to me is a great failure.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Aseennav

[TonyTones]

15 minutes ago, Aseennav said:

This to me is a great failure.

NQ response probably: "well the 5 players we listen to find ore juse fine sooo..." see attachment 

[Snapsis]

29 minutes ago, Aseennav said:

I should have been able to hit at least something there, but the distribution used seems to be hard set and not randomly generated.

This to me is a great failure.

This kind of effort should absolutely give some results.

It is the wrong way to go about it in this game though.

You need to "cast a net" scanning ever 4th tile or so, and with about 7 scanners solo you can do that pretty quick.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Snapsis