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Talemai is solid proof that ore distribution with infinite ore pools that can be claimed is terrible for game


Snapsis

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Jago -     2.66% tiles claimed (1616)

Teoma - 2.48% claimed (1505)

Both out since launch.

 

Talemai - 3.34% (1768 tiles) claimed in less than 24hrs.

I think our work is done here.

 

NQ : Now do you understand why we need a different ore distribution for next planet?

 

Edited to add more evidence.

This is a field of Gold all captured by one Org within 36 hours.

::pos{0,41,-25.0361,-89.9769,-0.0003}

image.png.e1c1551352c3781f84d3241a847f212b.png

Edited by Snapsis
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Yeah, I saw an off-hand comment about new planet and thought "oh cool, progress."  Then I found out it was just one planet and immediately went into "either NQ doesn't care that many in the community have outright claimed cheating/favoritism or they are so horribly inept."  The end result is the same either way and will only harm the (remaining) community at large.

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3 hours ago, Hecticus said:

We got out there asap after work and the planet was already a patchwork of ore flowers. Moon 3 looked about 25% claimed.

*sigh*

Talemai Moon 3 is claimed for 6.92% claimed (133 tiles out of 1922)... Hyperbole much?

 

No, the moons feel as if someone just plopped down a ton of TUs at a random place and hoped to get something good (I have done similar things in the past). Imho the patches on the moon are too big to all contain T2+ ore. The Talemai patches are often quite small. I also suspect that some of the bigger ones are people plopping down a ton of TUs after finding one T2+ tile instead of just scanning all the surrounding tiles, just wait a month for claims to expire.

 

There are issues, the scanning on day #1 just isn't fun. It honestly never was, but it has gotten way worse. Scans fail on even stable flat ground because the dynamic core 'moved' (it didn't), I have to place a dynamic core and embed the scanners in the ground, and even then it sometimes doesn't work. Even if you scan for hours/days, there is little chance of you finding anything of significance. And that lack of reward is an issue, a bigger issue is no matter how much time you spend on it, there's a huge chance you will never find any significant T2+ tile that is worth your time... Then looking at the smaller patches, that is not even enough to saturate one fully upgraded miner, let alone multiple.

 

Talemai is a very nice planet, the snow, the ice, the lava! But it's rough as hell! If T2 ore was as abundant as in beta, this would have been a lovely spot! But even the T1 ore is sparse. I do like the Natron/Limestone pacthes on the snow ground you can harvest, but the rest sucks! Especially because it's in pvp space. So even if you after much work are able to get some resources, you either have to warp it out (expensive) or risk slow boating it (loose it all)... I see currently very little reward in going to the new planets and moons... Too much risk, very little reward! After a 24hr stay, I warped back to Alioth... *sigh*

Edited by Cergorach
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There is already an active thread dedicated to this topic so perhaps share your thoughts there. Also could you please elaborate a bit more when you do. Its obvious that you have some opinions on the ore distribution but its not exactly clear what they are. The figures you quoted highlight the exceptionally high rate of tile acquisition for Talemai so I presume you believe that needs to be decreased. I tend to agree but I don't see how that ties into the ore distribution. Furthermore the opinions I have heard regarding said distribution have been all over the place. Some believe everyone should have access to a T5 tile, some want it to remain a scarce resource, and some want territory mining completely removed. There are also concerns regarding the current permanence of tile ownership. Some think its perfectly fine, some think territory warfare will eventually balance everything, and others think we need an interim solution. Unfortunately most of these thoughts get thrown around without context or justification so its hard to say why certain players feel the way they do.

 

Just overall, I think it would help if more people chimed in with detailed thoughts on a given forum topic. Yes the witty one liners and gut reactions can be fun on occasion but I feel like its become too commonplace and causes topics to derail rather quickly. I want the community's voice to be both heard and understood when it comes to serious topics. Now I get it, some people can be really passionate, but if and when NQ peaks in on said discussions, it would be nice if there were less people flailing around and trying to set the room on fire. Ideally that will also encourage other players to share their perspectives.

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I believe a set it and forget it model to owning mineral resources is flawed.

With the exception of Haven & Sanct which should remain roughly 100 L/h of each T1...

All tiles outside of Haven/Sanct should do weekly rotations, not from a realism sense, but from a preventing monopoly style I have Parks Place you lose point.
From a technical perspective, it is simply regenerating the tile resource heat map every Tuesday during maintenance. Each week players could then scan to find better tiles, pick up where they were or stay put. Thus giving back a utility to routine scanning for players.

Additionally it would encourage people to HQ tiles either for their aesthetic location, to build long term homes, or to simply wait with tile inactive until the RNG of the heatmap gives favorable resources worth the weekly taxes. In the future this rotation of resources would prevent orgs like Legion from snowballing their wins and driving everyone out of the best resource location on future pvp planets IF territory warfare ever comes. Thus also changing the dynamic of the battlefield, location of the fight, encouraging logistics, hauling etc.

This is both technically pheasable and likely low hanging fruit for implementation, the only real problem is to get the community as a whole to agree it is the solution they want. That is unfortunately very unlikely as those that "have" want to maintain status quo, those that "have not" feel they never had a chance, and those that haven't come have no idea what they are missing out on and the advantages to owning such sizeable resources.

P.S. I assume it is a heat map because ore distribution for tiles seems to remarkably resemble the mechanics for our mining unit heat maps for hot/cold spots.

Edited by Rokkur
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"

5 minutes ago, Rokkur said:



All tiles outside of Haven/Sanct should do weekly rotations, not from a realism sense, but from a preventing monopoly style I have Parks Place you lose point.
From a technical perspective, it is simply regenerating the tile resource heat map every Tuesday during maintenance. Each week players could then scan to find better tiles, pick up where they were or stay put. Thus giving back a utility to routine scanning for players.
 

I have said that also, that a fixed amount of ore pool along with a random rotation of ore.  Say you have tile A.  This week it has X amount of  T2 and once mined out that's it then next week it may have less, then the following week it may be gone altogether.  The following week later it may have a different T2 ore.   That way everyone can get access to the ore needed.

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39 minutes ago, Msoul said:

Just overall, I think it would help if more people chimed in with detailed thoughts on a given forum topic. Yes the witty one liners and gut reactions can be fun on occasion but I feel like its become too commonplace and causes topics to derail rather quickly. I want the community's voice to be both heard and understood when it comes to serious topics. Now I get it, some people can be really passionate, but if and when NQ peaks in on said discussions, it would be nice if there were less people flailing around and trying to set the room on fire. Ideally that will also encourage other players to share their perspectives.

 

I get what you're saying, but it's hard to take any conversation "seriously" when the chance of NQ engagement is near-zero.

 

If people honestly believed their feedback might be seen by devs, the tone of this forum would likely be very different. There's thousands of posts that go into pages and pages and pages of detail, but communication has never been bi-directional. There's no reason to believe this will change after so many years.

 

You might say that devs would come around more often if the tone was more serious and productive....but that's not how these things work. 

 

You need to have a presence in the conversation if you want to control its tone and direction... 

 

It isn't our job to make these forums a serious place for productive, detailed topics -- and there's no reason to assume that's NQ's goal, either.

 

If it were, they should do the work to change the tone by showing people that they are in fact engaged, they are human beings trying their best, and they do indeed have a plan for the game. 

 

What doesn't feel helpful in my opinion is the "cop" attitude where things must go in the proper threads and must stay on topic because "we have to be helpful for NQ". 

 

If NQ valued this as a channel for comms, they'd spend even 10 minutes a day on posting or cleanup.

 

I appreciate that you want polite, focused topics that are grouped into common threads, but to be blunt...I don't see how it's really any of your business how people use this forum, or if they don't put things into the threads you'd like, or don't adopt the tone or level of detail that you think would help NQ best. 

 

The issue with the community being heard is not the tone or content! It's that NQ hasn't shown any shred of ability or interest in engagement. It's their job to be professionals, engage their customers, and control the tone and content of their own forum.

 

Not mine. Not other players. Not yours, either. 

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43 minutes ago, blundertwink said:

I get what you're saying, but it's hard to take any conversation "seriously" when the chance of NQ engagement is near-zero.

 

If people honestly believed their feedback might be seen by devs, the tone of this forum would likely be very different. There's thousands of posts that go into pages and pages and pages of detail, but communication has never been bi-directional. There's no reason to believe this will change after so many years.

 

You might say that devs would come around more often if the tone was more serious and productive....but that's not how these things work. 

 

You need to have a presence in the conversation if you want to control its tone and direction... 

 

It isn't our job to make these forums a serious place for productive, detailed topics -- and there's no reason to assume that's NQ's goal, either.

 

If it were, they should do the work to change the tone by showing people that they are in fact engaged, they are human beings trying their best, and they do indeed have a plan for the game. 

 

What doesn't feel helpful in my opinion is the "cop" attitude where things must go in the proper threads and must stay on topic because "we have to be helpful for NQ". 

 

If NQ valued this as a channel for comms, they'd spend even 10 minutes a day on posting or cleanup.

 

I appreciate that you want polite, focused topics that are grouped into common threads, but to be blunt...I don't see how it's really any of your business how people use this forum, or if they don't put things into the threads you'd like, or don't adopt the tone or level of detail that you think would help NQ best. 

 

The issue with the community being heard is not the tone or content! It's that NQ hasn't shown any shred of ability or interest in engagement. It's their job to be professionals, engage their customers, and control the tone and content of their own forum.

 

Not mine. Not other players. Not yours, either. 

 

If that is the way you feel then so be it, but please understand that not everyone feels the same way you do. Their are still those who love this game, who believe in it's future, and who want to have serious conversations here on the forums. Yes some have expressed concerns regarding NQ's current level of engagement and future prospects but these kind of concerns have existed, to varying degrees, long before this forum even came into existence. While I do agree that holding such beliefs discourages people from providing constructive feedback, it most certainly does not stop them. In fact I would argue that its not unusual for some of the biggest critics/doomsayers here to also present some of the most well thought-out and meaningful suggestions. Even still, I too hope that NQ can alleviate some of the uncertainty floating around, but it will most likely take time.

 

Now with regards to the forums itself. You are correct in that it is not my place to control the narrative or organize things. If I came across as a "cop" there, then I do apologize. All I wanted to do was offer my thoughts and suggestions on the matter, similar to what you have done here. Everyone is free to ignore me and I expect many will. The main thought I was trying to convey is indeed that both NQ and other players would be more inclined to interact/monitor feedback on the forums if the quality/consistency of it were increased. It seems we disagree on that point but this particular thread (as well as the one I linked) are clearly geared towards discussion/feedback on Dual Universe's ore distribution. Given this I felt it was appropriate to make such a suggestion. Also I personally want to understand why players feel the way they do about this particular topic and since Snapsis also expressed some interest, it seemed appropriate to invite him to the party.

 

PS: Two parties is fine too. If you want to host your own then go for it.

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36 minutes ago, Msoul said:

 

If that is the way you feel then so be it, but please understand that not everyone feels the same way you do.


I respectfully agree with Blunder, I think you hurt your own neutrality as a player by the way you engage with the rest of us, as if you are the assistant to the regional manager (The Office reference). :rofl: Basically you seem to be here reminding us of how we SHOULD do xyz  in communication when you have zero authority, and it causes as much frustration for us as I feel it probably does for you seeing us unproductively bashing the game according to your views.

If I had positive things to say I would say them, that is the problem, a lot of the things aren't positive. I am glad that we have T1 space fuel, I can say that, I can also say that I am extremely disappointed with salvaging. While the treasure box of ships in space is highly appealing the downsides are enormous. The fact that wrecks aren't spawning at all at Thades in the past 18 hours, and they spawn only once every 2-3 hours across 2500 SU of territory, with only xs sized parts, and only one available in the entire game at this moment lacks in much of anything good.

I can only say I was excited to see one ship with rare military engines, and some gold voxel...  It was 1 in 30 at this rate, with the rest cycling through the same 4-5 models of cheap plastic and basic parts that hardly justify the fuel cost even with T1 made space fuel. Salvaging was a big thing for me, the fact that they just spawn randomly some constructs, and added waypoints is unsatisfying, and on the verge of feeling lazy when there isn't enough for one person let alone hundreds of us.

Of course when we voice these valid concerns we don't hear back from NQ, and then people in your boat of "just enjoy the game" invite us to exit out the door, which enough people are already doing that it jeopardizes the ability for NQ to maintain server cost. Of course when we don't do this and become bitter after years of the same behavior from NQ then we are banned from forums cause we didn't praise them enough in our frustration.

You don't only get to listen when people say what you want.

Edited by Rokkur
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15 hours ago, Msoul said:

Just overall, I think it would help if more people chimed in with detailed thoughts on a given forum topic. Yes the witty one liners and gut reactions can be fun on occasion but I feel like its become too commonplace and causes topics to derail rather quickly. I want the community's voice to be both heard and understood when it comes to serious topics. Now I get it, some people can be really passionate, but if and when NQ peaks in on said discussions, it would be nice if there were less people flailing around and trying to set the room on fire. Ideally that will also encourage other players to share their perspectives.

 

Your dedication and belief in NQ is commendable, if misguided, but if NQ don't take this forum seriously, why should we? Heck, NQ barely even respond to tickets, let alone engage the wider customer base in constructive discourse.


Without NQ taking part, though, there is no reason to waste time formulating insightful comments full of detail about how the game is broken. It's not like other people reading those comments will help NQ sort their shiite out.


I have formulated careful posts in the past, collected and collated information into easily readable lists, helped other forum members and was once a very constructive member of the community. But that time is well and truly over. Other than taking our money, it's crystal clear that NQ have neither the will nor inclination to engage with us and haven't in any meaningful way since early alpha.

This throwaway addition of a single planet, identical to previous planets with all their obvious problems intact is absolute proof they haven't learnt a thing.

 

Periodically, heck even randomly rotating ores, making them far more common, removing the 15 minute timer and replacing it with a dowsing capability that simply points in the closest 45 or 90 degree segment of a compass towards the densest cluster if one exists within, say ten tiles (adjustable by skills and tier of the territory scanner). I don't know I'm not a game dev, but that seems like more fun than what we currently have and I just pulled that out of my arse.

At the end of the day, fun should be the number 1 goal of any game, above every other goal.

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Rokkur I think you might be misunderstanding a little bit. This is not about whether the feedback is positive or negative in nature but rather the amount of effort and thought put into it. Blunder appears to be making the case that because NQ appears inactive here, that there is no reason for anyone to put in any effort towards either of these activities. I have expressed my opinions on that already and again they are just my opinions. I have nothing to do with NQ, and while I do think the way some people express themselves on the forum tends to be counter productive to their goal, that is their choice and I do respect it. All I am trying to say here is that "Dual Universe is great" and "Dual Universe is bad" are not particularly helpful to anyone let alone NQ and there are others who wish to have more thoughtful conversations. To be perfectly honest I can't believe that pointing this out has led to this kind of response. Perhaps its best to just move on at this point. My apologies Snapsis I did not expect this to go so far off topic.

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If anyone thought it was not going to turn out this way.....   I noticed by week two of release how quickly stuff got gobbled up. and that was before people had assets. Couple that with the changes to territory units (IE you can go far away from them without them stopping).  Couple that with ore distributions where large clumps of ore expand over 10+ hexes in length. This means A single player can place 1 scanner, skip 5 hexes place another mining unit skip 5 hexes. Rinse repeat till you have 15 mining units down.  This means a single player can scan an area of about 300 hexes every 30 minutes.  Get 20 people into an organized formation and your scanning an area of 12,000 hexes every hour.  Meaning 5 hours and you have a planet the size of Talemai all scanned down.  Sure you dont have every tile scanned but you dont need to. All you need is a whiff and you can then zero in on the deposit. 

7 hours ago, Cergorach said:

*sigh*

Talemai Moon 3 is claimed for 6.92% claimed (133 tiles out of 1922)... Hyperbole much?

 

No, the moons feel as if someone just plopped down a ton of TUs at a random place and hoped to get something good (I have done similar things in the past).

No, you are incorrect. The two  big claims on that moon, one is gold and the other is silver.  And as far as I can tell that is the only gold tile in game.  now there are probably many T1 and T2 tiles to be discovered still, but as you pointed out, those ore are not as valuable and not worth the cost of getting this ore back to safe space. 

 

 

Now dont forget, all of this is moot because "When" territory warfare comes to the game.  all these claims will get gobbled up by the few. Or at minimum denied access to by the powerful. 

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 @Msoul Respectfully again, I don't misunderstand as you believe I do. You seem to think my response is a lack of understanding, it is not.
I acknowledge your view points and also want to express why posts are made in the nature they are.

As Jinx pointed out, many used to be more constructive at one point until the felt unheard. In order to play DU the game almost requires the player to treat it as a second job. Because of the level of investment, there is an emotional feeling of player ownership of DU by the community despite what is stated in the legalize of NQ claiming omnipotent rights to even our creative works.

You seem to also believe that the communication breakdown is off topic of the OP's post but it is not.

It is NQ's ATTITUDE towards its community in communication is also very matching of how it approaches development, and thus the results are like dropping barrels of gunpowder into a volcano. The reason things aren't louder and more explosive is persistent dwindling of the player base. NQ thinks the lava is bad and continues to try to drain it(remove/drive away players), but the lava is the heart of the volcano, the same as the community is the heart of the game. If the lava/fire (community/passion) dies, the volcano (game) also dies.

The fact that another planet was added with the same distribution problems expressed is why we believe we aren't being heard. Just as you believe I would have wrote something different if I understood what you said, we as the players believe Ore Distribution would have changed if NQ was listening to us.

@Msoul - I also want to say I think while well intended, your attempt to fill in NQ's gap is getting the fire directed onto you, when really we are frustrated with NQs dev decisions, something you are powerless to do anything about.
 

Edited by Rokkur
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7 hours ago, Msoul said:

There is already an active thread dedicated to this topic so perhaps share your thoughts there. Also could you please elaborate a bit more when you do. Its obvious that you have some opinions on the ore distribution but its not exactly clear what they are. The figures you quoted highlight the exceptionally high rate of tile acquisition for Talemai so I presume you believe that needs to be decreased. I tend to agree but I don't see how that ties into the ore distribution. Furthermore the opinions I have heard regarding said distribution have been all over the place. Some believe everyone should have access to a T5 tile, some want it to remain a scarce resource, and some want territory mining completely removed. There are also concerns regarding the current permanence of tile ownership. Some think its perfectly fine, some think territory warfare will eventually balance everything, and others think we need an interim solution. Unfortunately most of these thoughts get thrown around without context or justification so its hard to say why certain players feel the way they do.

 

Just overall, I think it would help if more people chimed in with detailed thoughts on a given forum topic. Yes the witty one liners and gut reactions can be fun on occasion but I feel like its become too commonplace and causes topics to derail rather quickly. I want the community's voice to be both heard and understood when it comes to serious topics. Now I get it, some people can be really passionate, but if and when NQ peaks in on said discussions, it would be nice if there were less people flailing around and trying to set the room on fire. Ideally that will also encourage other players to share their perspectives.

 

 

Lets just keep it simple shall we?

Since before release NQ has been told in multiple forum threads and constantly on Discord why this system is flawed.
We all know it is flawed. Even those of us that know how to work the system to our advantage advocate for a change.
 

Stop acting like it just needs more constructive feedback.

 

If the game designers want some help they need to engage.

Yes, let it be possible for anyone to find T2 within 20-30 hours of gameplay, and T3 within 40+ hours.

The way it works now very few people that scan first have the chance at up to T4 with very little time invested.

Then it's over. They have the tiles until they decide to sell said tiles or they abandon the game.

 

Here are two ideas:

A very simple way to change the system for the better would be to just increase the number of hotspots and make them smaller.

 

Another idea would be to have the process of finding ore take days on a single tile and be random in the size and type of pool that is found.

 

Digging for mega nodes was bad, we get it it. But if people can still have a chance to find a "mother load", even if it needs to be mined out slowly, that is way better than scanning tiles for hours on end and not finding anything but T1.

 

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16 hours ago, Snapsis said:

Talemai - 3.34% (1768 tiles) claimed in less than 24hrs.

I think our work is done here.

 

9 hours ago, blundertwink said:

...the chance of NQ engagement is near-zero.

 

It isn't our job to make these forums a serious place for productive, detailed topics -- and there's no reason to assume that's NQ's goal, either.

 

What doesn't feel helpful in my opinion is the "cop" attitude where things must go in the proper threads and must stay on topic because "we have to be helpful for NQ". 

 

4 hours ago, Rokkur said:


I respectfully agree with Blunder, I think you hurt your own neutrality as a player by the way you engage with the rest of us, as if you are the assistant to the regional manager (The Office reference). :rofl: Basically you seem to be here reminding us of how we SHOULD do xyz  in communication when you have zero authority, and it causes as much frustration for us as I feel it probably does for you seeing us unproductively bashing the game according to your views.

Of course when we voice these valid concerns we don't hear back from NQ, and then people in your boat of "just enjoy the game" invite us to exit out the door, which enough people are already doing that it jeopardizes the ability for NQ to maintain server cost. Of course when we don't do this and become bitter after years of the same behavior from NQ then we are banned from forums cause we didn't praise them enough in our frustration.

You don't only get to listen when people say what you want.

 

3 hours ago, Jinxed said:

 

Your dedication and belief in NQ is commendable, if misguided, but if NQ don't take this forum seriously, why should we? Heck, NQ barely even respond to tickets, let alone engage the wider customer base in constructive discourse.


Without NQ taking part, though, there is no reason to waste time formulating insightful comments full of detail about how the game is broken. It's not like other people reading those comments will help NQ sort their shiite out.


I have formulated careful posts in the past, collected and collated information into easily readable lists, helped other forum members and was once a very constructive member of the community. But that time is well and truly over. Other than taking our money, it's crystal clear that NQ have neither the will nor inclination to engage with us and haven't in any meaningful way since early alpha.

This throwaway addition of a single planet, identical to previous planets with all their obvious problems in tact is absolute proof they haven't learnt a thing.

 

Periodically, heck even randomly rotating ores, making them far more common, removing the 15 minute timer and replacing it with a dowsing capability that simply points in the closest 45 or 90 degree segment of a compass towards the densest cluster if one exists within, say ten tiles (adjustable by skills and tier of the territory scanner). I don't know I'm not a game dev, but that seems like more fun than what we currently have and I just pulled that out of my arse.

At the end of the day, fun should be the number 1 goal of any game, above every other goal.

 

2 hours ago, RugesV said:

If anyone thought it was not going to turn out this way.....   I noticed by week two of release how quickly stuff got gobbled up. and that was before people had assets.

 

Now dont forget, all of this is moot because "When" territory warfare comes to the game.  all these claims will get gobbled up by the few. Or at minimum denied access to by the powerful. 

 

2 hours ago, Rokkur said:

 @Msoul Respectfully again, I don't misunderstand as you believe I do. You seem to think my response is a lack of understanding, it is not.
I acknowledge your view points and also want to express why posts are made in the nature they are.

As Jinx pointed out, many used to be more constructive at one point until the felt unheard. In order to play DU the game almost requires the player to treat it as a second job. Because of the level of investment, there is an emotional feeling of player ownership of DU by the community despite what is stated in the legalize of NQ claiming omnipotent rights to even our creative works.

You seem to also believe that the communication breakdown is off topic of the OP's post but it is not.

It is NQ's ATTITUDE towards its community in communication is also very matching of how it approaches development, and thus the results are like dropping barrels of gunpowder into a volcano. The reason things aren't louder and more explosive is persistent dwindling of the player base. NQ thinks the lava is bad and continues to try to drain it(remove/drive away players), but the lava is the heart of the volcano, the same as the community is the heart of the game. If the lava/fire (community/passion) dies, the volcano (game) also dies.

The fact that another planet was added with the same distribution problems expressed is why we believe we aren't being heard. Just as you believe I would have wrote something different if I understood what you said, we as the players believe Ore Distribution would have changed if NQ was listening to us.

@Msoul - I also want to say I think while well intended, your attempt to fill in NQ's gap is getting the fire directed onto you, when really we are frustrated with NQs dev decisions, something you are powerless to do anything about.
 

 

2 hours ago, Snapsis said:

Lets just keep it simple shall we?

Since before release NQ has been told in multiple forum threads and constantly on Discord why this system is flawed.
We all know it is flawed. Even those of us that know how to work the system to our advantage advocate for a change.
 

Stop acting like it just needs more constructive feedback.

 

If the game designers want some help they need to engage.

Yes, let it be possible for anyone to find T2 within 20-30 hours of gameplay, and T3 within 40+ hours.

The way it works now very few people that scan first have the chance at up to T4 with very little time invested.

Then it's over. They have the tiles until they decide to sell said tiles or they abandon the game.

 

Here are two ideas:

A very simple way to change the system for the better would be to just increase the number of hotspots and make them smaller.

 

Another idea would be to have the process of finding ore take days on a single tile and be random in the size and type of pool that is found.

 

Digging for mega nodes was bad, we get it it. But if people can still have a chance to find a "mother load", even if it needs to be mined out slowly, that is way better than scanning tiles for hours on end and not finding anything but T1.

 

Reference:

https://dictionary.apa.org/gaslight

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agent provocateur (more polite than 'patsy')

Prior evidence of insider knowledge resulting in blatant imbalances.

 

I came to the table in good faith and offered input, suggestions, and value for the game and community.  Telling us how to jump through hoops with enough flame but not too much when we're not heaping praise upon you is a MAJOR RED FLAG. Every step along the way since launch that has been "mishandled" has been called out yet we get short notice for a single planet being released?  NQ has shaved the doubts balanced on Occam's Razer so thin that we're left with two equally horrible possible explanations; malfeasance or catastrophic incompetence.  Each patch has just enough "good enough" to temporarily pull attention away from consistent, repeated abuse of your community.  

 

There seems to be tons of smoke billowing around every patch.  It couldn't possibly be someone's pants ablaze?  Nah, nothing to see here...

 

:(

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2 hours ago, Snapsis said:

Yes, let it be possible for anyone to find T2 within 20-30 hours of gameplay, and T3 within 40+ hours.

The way it works now very few people that scan first have the chance at up to T4 with very little time invested.

Then it's over. They have the tiles until they decide to sell said tiles or they abandon the game.

 

Here are two ideas:

A very simple way to change the system for the better would be to just increase the number of hotspots and make them smaller.

 

Another idea would be to have the process of finding ore take days on a single tile and be random in the size and type of pool that is found.

 

Digging for mega nodes was bad, we get it it. But if people can still have a chance to find a "mother load", even if it needs to be mined out slowly, that is way better than scanning tiles for hours on end and not finding anything but T1.

 

Those are interesting ideas and I can see how they help to provide more opportunities for players to get rich but there are also problems with such an approach. The first is that it makes the process of scanning for rare tiles far more tedious and time consuming (ie: something that is already heavily criticized). Perhaps that is not too concerning if your intent is to balance things such that everyone is capable of acquiring said tiles, but therein lies the bigger more fundamental problem. Regardless of how long it takes or how much effort is required, if everyone is capable of simultaneously owning rare tiles then eventually they will. This effectively eliminates the whole concept of resource scarcity which in of itself is meant to be the primary motivation behind pvp. It also disincentives market trading due to reduced interdependence between players/groups for resources. To put it simply, the idea works well from a single player perspective (ie: individualized progression) but it sacrifices a fair chunk of the mmo aspect. I am not necessarily saying its a terrible idea but its definitely not ideal either.

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6 hours ago, RugesV said:

The two  big claims on that moon, one is gold and the other is silver.  And as far as I can tell that is the only gold tile in game.  now there are probably many T1 and T2 tiles to be discovered still, but as you pointed out, those ore are not as valuable and not worth the cost of getting this ore back to safe space.

Have you scanned them? I wanted to check some of the tile patches on Talemai itself, but for the life of me, I couldn't because the client kept insisting that the core moved (it didn't). Or are you repeating what you heard.

 

If true, then that feels extremely unbalanced by piling it all on a single moon, all connected... Of course some one is going to hit a jackpot there...

 

Another problem I have is that some people knew about the new planet and could plan for it. I just saw it in the stream and bought stuff, but even before the stream the TU market got bought out. So there were people who knew before the stream...

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1 hour ago, Cergorach said:

Another problem I have is that some people knew about the new planet and could plan for it. I just saw it in the stream and bought stuff, but even before the stream the TU market got bought out. So there were people who knew before the stream...

I'm fairly sure the release of Talemai was publicised in some manner before the stream... I'm not caring enough to dig through timestamps of announcements, and it certainly wasn't consistently messaged, but I don't think the stream was the first time Talemai was announced as imminent.

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1 hour ago, Kezzle said:

I'm fairly sure the release of Talemai was publicised in some manner before the stream... I'm not caring enough to dig through timestamps of announcements, and it certainly wasn't consistently messaged, but I don't think the stream was the first time Talemai was announced as imminent.

As much time as I spend here on these forums I would have noticed that being publicized.  The first mention I saw was during the stream.  We got a big heads up that the patch was coming and lots of complaints followed, including people directly addressing planet release phases not getting mention.  Discord is fine for real time conversation but no mention in the announcements there either.  The discussion channel is the only place I can think of that I have not monitored actively.  I found out about the T1 space fuel in that channel during the forum maintenance but would not have known (before patch announcements) had I not been there live, i.e. not a channel for announcements. Far too many coincidences in light of prior impropriety to assume in NQ's favor here.

 

Edit:  

 

 

So yeah, it was technically announced but immediately removed without comment, context, or clarification.  

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1 hour ago, Wyndle said:

So yeah, it was technically announced but immediately removed without comment, context, or clarification.  

Ah, that's probably what I remember. I also remember joining in (in my own head :) ) the wondering about why it wasn't mentioned in the later splashes about 1.2. I assumed it was just standard NQ noob-level comms.

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Looking around more, @Shredder was the only one to mention having seen a planet listed on the patch announcement and later the same day came the 'when will we hear about planets' complaints I recalled seeing.  The context for removing a portion of an official announcement that we now know for fact was a part of the patch is of the utmost importance here.  Just seeing Shredder's post with no direct response could create the impression that the planet was held back or not actually in the post.

 

Two plus weeks of prep time versus two days is an uncontestable head start with a myriad of additional ways to ensure coming out on top.  Even a solo player with two weeks of insider prep time could buy up and build MUs and TUs while mission running to cover TU placement costs and blanket the planet in fast claimed tiles.

 

@NQ-Wanderer @NQ-Nyota @NQ-Deckard  -  This incident has pushed the boundary past plausible deniability.  I can see the occasional slip or blunder leading to poor results but every patch having essentially the same effect of benefiting a few?  It is either malfeasance or ineptitude on a level that ensures the eventual collapse of the game and the fact the servers haven't already croaked takes credence away from the latter.

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19 hours ago, Cergorach said:

*sigh*

Talemai Moon 3 is claimed for 6.92% claimed (133 tiles out of 1922)... Hyperbole much?

I warped back to Alioth... *sigh*

Ok. I’m not good at numbers. That was how I remembered it. I am there scanning since last night. Edit -I posted a response without reading and the thread has changed course drastically. Just…wow

Edited by Hecticus
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I have a suggestion that isn't the total solution because of alt but it's a good start.

 

Recommended changes.

1. When a tile goes inactive make the person pay back taxes to reactive. This would stop people from paying every three weeks to keep claim.

 

2. Taxes should increase with the amount of tiles owned. Example 7 tiles free and after each additional tile claimed taxes raise 10% on all tiles, including your first 7.

 

Maybe this isn't the end all solution but something has to be done around hoarding. I see many tiles on jago all owned by the same person or org that are inactive and sitting on T3 and T4 ore.

 

 

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