UPDATE 1.2 ARRIVES ON DECEMBER 13TH - TACTICAL MAP, REVAMPED ASTEROIDS AND MORE

[milkmkhjgjg]

2 hours ago, Dakanmer said:

You've got some serious delusions about non-PVP players that you think "check the problem from all angles" doesn't also apply to you. There are SOME who do as you say, making throw-away ships to slip in, mine a node and leave for massive profit; my friends have toyed with the idea, even, because of how you people force us to think about it just to get resources we need to build the stuff you think we've all got in spades. There are far more of us who CANNOT AFFORD TO DO PVP, and CANNOT GET ENOUGH PEOPLE TOGETHER TO DO IT. This isn't a full-time job, where everyone in an org is expected to always be online at the same time because they all live in the same time zone range. Scheduling time to go mining even inside the safe zone is rough for many orgs. If we're lucky, the people I hang with have only a few on at any given time because of work and time zones, and I know we're not the only ones.

 

For us, our mining ships aren't built the way they are "because we're lazy and don't want to defend ourselves," but because we CAN'T defend ourselves; we don't have the people, and without one of our guys running tons of missions with alts to get money fast (which shouldn't even be a thing, but neither should many other things that are), we wouldn't have the money AND ore resources to build even basic defenses...and if we did, PVPers would just do what PVPers do and work slightly harder for easy money.

 

See, for YOU, there's a reward to PVP. For EVERYONE ELSE, there is only risk, with no reward. You are out there (be honest with yourself, and us) hunting down ships that you then loot and fix, and try to sell back to the original owners. My feelings about that kind of behavior aside, you get all of the reward for almost zero risk. And yes, you people DO focus on ships that can't defend themselves. I don't know how many times I've been told that you guys tend to ignore ships that have guns. It's not about PVP, but easy loot. YOU may believe that it isn't, but it always was, with people wanting actual PVP fights with the actual threat of losing being the minority.

 

And that brings us to PVP for everyone else. There is no reward, only risk, which is why you don't see orgs dedicated to pirate hunting, doing escort missions, etc. There is no reward worth the massive amount of time wasted on the majority of the trip, or the resources spent on the ships to do it. We're not searching people to kill and loot to make up for the costs. We're not swimming in resources as you originally claimed, either. Many of your ships are just as throw-away as ours, just as minimally geared as ours, which is also why you lot tend to avoid fighting solo ships that run armed (maybe YOU don't, but a trend is a trend, so don't deny that "put a gun on your ship, even if there's no ammo" is legit advice to avoid PVP). For many of us, that's all we can really afford to lose if we want the game to be at all enjoyable. Because we do other things than PVP, and those other things cost.

 

And then there's the flight time. You've flown PVP space. You know how long trips can be between planets. You may not know that many of us miner-types don't go to asteroids to mine them for a few minutes before leaving to avoid you, but prefer to spend time eating the asteroids so we can use the ore to build better ships (you're geared towards PVP, so you focus on getting that. We're not, because we've got so many other things to do than just PVP). Do you SERIOUSLY think that REAL PEOPLE with REAL LIVES want to spend several hours watching their radar while twiddling their thumbs when they could be doing something more interesting? (For mining runs in PVP space, there's always got to be someone on the ship ready to flee because of what you're complaining about losing. Do you really think there are infinite numbers of us with nothing better to do?) "Just warp, then" isn't an option anymore because of the schematics time/costs...and because we don't have access to nearly the quantity of the necessary resources you seem to believe we've all got.

 

And how much do you think that kind of escort service is worth, that non-PVP players can easily afford it? Just how much do you think we ACTUALLY make from just existing? Again, without mission runners, the economy would be much weaker simply because the costs for making schematics, paying territory taxes, buying ore/parts, etc etc etc, is so high, and only the super-orgs would have any resources to speak of. Nearly ALL of the risk and cost is on the side of the non-PVPers. It's not because we're lazy or coddled. It's because there is ZERO REWARD for PVP for most of us; only risk. For you, it's almost all reward with very little risk, unless you have a rival org or are a loner...but as a loner in PVP, you still have far less risk than non-PVPers, and far more reward, and even with rivals, you still get your jollies by ganking us and funding your own efforts...meanwhile, those of us who aren't the minority you describe have to use throw-away ships just so we don't lose a month of progress.

 

You complain an awful lot about how PVPers are being wronged, meanwhile showing you have no understanding of what non-PVPers deal with. This game is a huge open world/solar system, where spending 2-8 hours of mindless travel isn't unheard-of, where not everyone is part of a super-org that can afford good ships that they can have spare personnel to defend at all times, where resources have to be split between multiple outlets (if you're a big org, you have many demands for spending that aren't PVP), and where the threat of losing a ship to PVP can be equivalent to a week or even a month of game time lost for people who can't play as a full-time job.

 

There's obviously a lot of work that needs to be put into the game to make its PVP better, but you seem to be laboring under the delusion that this is unique to DU. It isn't. This is a genre-wide problem, because you PVPers MAKE IT ONE. It's a problem in literally every MMO with piracy that I've ever played or heard of. When there is no real reward for fighting pirates (how do you think an economy like that would function? Have you ever actually thought about it beyond "well, people would pay taxes..."? Have you thought about WHO would do it beyond "well, PVPers would do it for money..."? I doubt you have), but plenty from being one, people stop wanting to bother with PVP...except for those whose entire purpose for playing is piracy. And again, be honest and admit that that's the vast majority of all PVP encounters. Not legit PVP, but as someone else said, PVE with extra steps. And then PVP becomes what it is in DU, just as in other games: a pirate's paradise, with almost no opposition besides other pirates, and when other opposition does show up, an enemy to rally the rest of the pirates to wipe out and discourage others from trying.

 

Rather than whining about how unfair it is for gankers who can't have easy marks with easy strategies for ganking, complain about the PVP system being massively unbalanced so that easy ganking is even a thing (yes, you probably believe that it's strategy-intensive, which is why you insult the rest of us as being dumb and not using our heads to avoid you), that there is no incentive for non-gankers to bother with PVP, that the system itself is garbage for various reasons (like line of sight not being necessary to shoot stuff), etc etc etc. Complain about the system that makes PVP so unbalanced in YOUR favor (the safe zones give us all a place to not deal with the craptastic system which, without the safe zones, would STILL favor you, because we're not pirates who drool over more piracy), not the people who don't have any interest in being target practice and breakable piggybanks for gankers.

I don't know if you realized , but you are actually agreeing with him on many of your points . There is no reward to pvp , because you can just get all the resources in the safe zone with zero risk . There is very little to gain from pirating , and it take ages to find someone to pvp , because the players are all in the safe zone . 

why pvp with other pvper's (for eg to defend a asteroid ) when you can get the same resource with zero risk in the safe zone. Why use your best ship , when the reward for the risk of losing your ship is so small , in comparison to the safe zone. The people who pvp don't pvp because there is something to gain , they pvp for fun , because they are bored of the game. To summarize you don't have to take risk to gain rewards in DU.

 Casual players wouldn't have a lot of resources , but most of the player base isn't casual , and even though it is just 2 month and a few days they are already stacked . The point still holds , because in a few months even casual players will be stacked with resources , because no evens take place that can destroy those resources , and by those events I mean pvp . I want people to understand that the safe zone is like a bank where everything of value is stored , and that bank is indestructible , and your money and assets never depreciate or degrade , because by design it can only stack . 

[Omukuumi]

9 hours ago, Dakanmer said:

See, for YOU, there's a reward to PVP. For EVERYONE ELSE, there is only risk, with no reward.

I laughed and I stop reading this delusional post.

 

Btw you think we don’t have life and co, stay behind the red line of the game please, I didn’t judge your IRL, just your gameplay. (Even more when you know exactly nothing about the person behind the avatar, his job, kids and co)

[Wyndle]

7 hours ago, milkmkhjgjg said:

I don't know if you realized , but you are actually agreeing with him on many of your points . There is no reward to pvp , because you can just get all the resources in the safe zone with zero risk . There is very little to gain from pirating , and it take ages to find someone to pvp , because the players are all in the safe zone . 

.

7 hours ago, milkmkhjgjg said:

The people who pvp don't pvp because there is something to gain , they pvp for fun , because they are bored of the game. To summarize you don't have to take risk to gain rewards in DU.

I don't know if you realized, but you are actually proving the point you claim is incorrect.   The individual behind the screen who seeks out PvP in this game does so purely for a dopamine hit that an unwilling participant doesn't get.  We're all junkies and NQ is standing at the gate between the sandbox and the rest of the playground selling guns and smack (talk).  Every few weeks they cut the chain on a swing to watch kids cry.

[CptLoRes]

If people are staying in the safesones it is because they are not interested in PVP. And trying to force them to participate in PvP (or any other type of game play their are not interested in) will only make them leave the game. And they have, in droves..

 

Imagine for example how many PvP'ers would leave this game, if they where forced to build land structures and maintain a certain amount of tiles before they could PvP.

 

So the only way to make more people want to PvP is for NQ to make PvP a more fun and interesting experience.

But it cannot be at the expense of people who do not want to PvP, and it cannot be forced by removing safezones.

 

[Lord_Trip]

NQ is being controlled by Legion a player organization inside the game the third Dev team is part of. That's why they're trying to force everybody to PVP because that Legion wants to PVP. And the pathetic devs given to their demands all the time. This game is truly dead may it rest in peace or should I say pieces

[Kezzle]

2 hours ago, Lord_Trip said:

NQ is being controlled by Legion a player organization inside the game the third Dev team is part of. That's why they're trying to force everybody to PVP because that Legion wants to PVP. And the pathetic devs given to their demands all the time. This game is truly dead may it rest in peace or should I say pieces

I thought they (NQ) were trying to get people to PvP because the game was always conceived as a game with PvP, where PvP was necessary to the life of the game because it was a material sink, and because it provided options to gain resources not directly available to people who don't participate directly in PewPew.

 

Maybe you're right about Legion pulling strings, but if you are, it seems to me they're pulling strings to try and get what they were originally sold.

[Lord_Trip]

4 minutes ago, Kezzle said:

I thought they (NQ) were trying to get people to PvP because the game was always conceived as a game with PvP, where PvP was necessary to the life of the game because it was a material sink, and because it provided options to gain resources not directly available to people who don't participate directly in PewPew.

 

Maybe you're right about Legion pulling strings, but if you are, it seems to me they're pulling strings to try and get what they were originally sold.

No originally it wasn't marketed as a PVP game. It was marketed as a community Builder with PVP aspects. It wasn't until these loser Griefers caught the ear of NQ and started pressuring them to make a solely PVP game. The game used to be a lot of fun but ever since they took all the aspects that made the game great out and replace them with nothing but PVP the game is dead due to their hand. It was the Community Builders that was sold a bad bill of goods not the pvps NQ is one of the most dishonest lying sax a crap I have ever come across. They do sneaky and underhanded stuff and then have the audacity to call foul feel sorry for me where the poor devs when the community doesn't like what they're doing. If you enjoy the PVP I wish you the best I do not it's the worst feature of the game and it will never get any better. I'm sorry I sound so bitter but I played the game for a very long time and I've seen the good times and now the only thing that's left of the bad ones. The best thing that can happen to this game is NQ goes out of business and sells the rights to a developer that knows what they're doing with game development and Community Building

[Omukuumi]

On 12/11/2022 at 2:24 PM, CptLoRes said:

Imagine for example how many PvP'ers would leave this game, if they where forced to build land structures and maintain a certain amount of tiles before they could PvP.

 

That's what makes all the difference between your pitch and mine, yes we have to do everything you do, maybe even more in addition to PVP, so when I talk about Safezone gameplay, I know my stuff.

You talk about things you don't know, imagining the wrong things and thinking that PVP players can live off their catch and do nothing else. It's just sad in a debate not to know when a subject is beyond us.

PVP don't need to be the only gameplay possible, just the end game. Like in all other games. If you want T4/T5 you will have to take some risk. Acutally, MU can provide those ore, new planets will grant more and more of them. How can you see the future of this game with unlimited ressources and so poor sink system?

Or do you want another wipe? Common...

 

On 12/11/2022 at 2:29 PM, Lord_Trip said:

NQ is being controlled by Legion a player organization inside the game the third Dev team is part of. That's why they're trying to force everybody to PVP because that Legion wants to PVP. And the pathetic devs given to their demands all the time. This game is truly dead may it rest in peace or should I say pieces

If only Entropy listenned a single post, I will agree with your doubt, but man, just read each patchnote x'D

[CptLoRes]

1 hour ago, Cobqlt said:

How can you see the future of this game with unlimited ressources and so poor sink system?

I never argued for unlimited anything. Just that the game needs be fun and rewarding for players and not feel like a second job, because you know.. it is a game and that is what games are supposed to be.

[milkmkhjgjg]

23 hours ago, Lord_Trip said:

No originally it wasn't marketed as a PVP game. It was marketed as a community Builder with PVP aspects. It wasn't until these loser Griefers caught the ear of NQ and started pressuring them to make a solely PVP game. The game used to be a lot of fun but ever since they took all the aspects that made the game great out and replace them with nothing but PVP the game is dead due to their hand. It was the Community Builders that was sold a bad bill of goods not the pvps NQ is one of the most dishonest lying sax a crap I have ever come across. They do sneaky and underhanded stuff and then have the audacity to call foul feel sorry for me where the poor devs when the community doesn't like what they're doing. If you enjoy the PVP I wish you the best I do not it's the worst feature of the game and it will never get any better. I'm sorry I sound so bitter but I played the game for a very long time and I've seen the good times and now the only thing that's left of the bad ones. The best thing that can happen to this game is NQ goes out of business and sells the rights to a developer that knows what they're doing with game development and Community Building

There were equal amounts of updates for pvp and pve (i am assuming you mean civilization building), but most of them were "improvement" of the current tool and systems . You think that pvper's don't want NPC , and survival elements , everyone would loves these features, except for carebears , because it adds danger to the game . But NQ seems to not be capable of adding the simplest of mechanisms to the game , so you have to taper your expectations , so i suggest simple things like greatly reducing the number of asteroids in the safe zones , since it is player against player , no NPCs are needed . The pets that they added is just cosmetic , and there is no profit to be made , why didn't they turn them into mobs , it is not because they don't want to, it is because they can't . 

Just like planetary mining , pvp was arguably nerfed , avatar boarding ships was removed , instead of adding avatar vs avatar combat , they just add impenetrable barriers , that indefinitely stays on . I expect NQ to do that , because they don't have the numbers(devs) to pull off AvA combat or anything that would significantly change the way pvp and pve is played. When a company aiming for realism can't add simple mechanisms like fall damage to their game , that should let you know what they are actually capable of achieving. 

 

[FryingDoom]

On 12/9/2022 at 6:31 AM, Zeddrick said:

It wasn't a third person game, original Elite was first person like E:D is.

You are right. It had been so long I was thinking of the starting screen.

[Wyndle]

Quote

• We are aware of an issue that occasionally results in a desynchronization causing ships to appear in places they are not supposed to be in, or suddenly disappear from their current location. Causing players to sometimes have their ship appear to have moved away from them. Additional tooling to investigate the issue has been added to this version in order to assist us in identifying the issue. In the event that it should occur to you, please submit a support ticket with the exact time and date of the event, including the name and owner of the construct and a client log file of the session where the incident occurred.

@NQ - This would be an excellent case to add a right click menu to "Report Desynch" on the Constructs in the Map.  You will get better and more consistent data, closer to real time.

 

Edit:  Your current ticket system is far from user friendly which impedes your above stated purpose. 

[Knight-Sevy]

NQ, where is my warfare ?



NQ, where is my giant battleship ?



NQ, where is my battles for the control of the Territory ?

[Aaron Cain]

so i need to fly 450 SU before i can start to scavenge.   maybe just scrap that or make it more general and also around core planets. If that already is the case, something is basically wrong as none spawn there.

[fiddlybits]

I didn't check Alioth, but a small number of Wrecks were spawned around Madis and Thades. They were scavenged very quickly though.

[Lord_Trip]

On 12/11/2022 at 8:55 AM, Kezzle said:

I thought they (NQ) were trying to get people to PvP because the game was always conceived as a game with PvP, where PvP was necessary to the life of the game because it was a material sink, and because it provided options to gain resources not directly available to people who don't participate directly in PewPew.

 

Maybe you're right about Legion pulling strings, but if you are, it seems to me they're pulling strings to try and get what they were originally sold.

No originally it wasn't marketed as a PVP game. It was marketed as a community Builder with PVP aspects. It wasn't until these loser Griefers caught the ear of NQ and started pressuring them to make a solely PVP game. The game used to be a lot of fun but ever since they took all the aspects that made the game great out and replace them with nothing but PVP the game is dead due to their hand. It was the Community Builders that was sold a bad bill of goods not the pvps NQ is one of the most dishonest lying sax a crap I have ever come across. They do sneaky and underhanded stuff and then have the audacity to call foul feel sorry for me where the poor devs when the community doesn't like what they're doing. If you enjoy the PVP I wish you the best I do not it's the worst feature of the game and it will never get any better. I'm sorry I sound so bitter but I played the game for a very long time and I've seen the good times and now the only thing that's left of the bad ones. The best thing that can happen to this game is NQ goes out of business and sells the rights to a developer that knows what they're doing with game development and Community Building  

Edited December 18, 2022 by Lord_Trip

[Lord_Trip]

NQ couldn't manage themselves out of wet paper bag.

 

[Wyndle]

I've had ships get trapped inside buildings.  The most recent I hovered until I could see all the glass elements load in but I still clipped through a voxel floor/roof as soon as I landed.

[Novean-61657]

I regularly fall through my glass panel floors because they aren't yet loaded in. But what is really annoying that sometimes my ships fall through my voxel landingpad that IS loaded in....