Jump to content

NQ is Killing "Casual Gameplay"


Rokkur

Recommended Posts

NQ claims they are trying to fix the economy by removing bots from market, cause T1 ore is injecting too much quanta into the economy. Yet at the same time they leave alt mission running in which allows a handful of players to make billions of quanta a month. So it is essentially like they are putting a band-aid (T1 Ore Income) on a papercut, while ignoring severed limbs worth of bleeding (Alt Mission Running).

I believe ore prices will settle at around 5h/l. Which means a casual player has the following.
100k daily bonus + 150k from their Haven tile: This means a casual player can get around 7.5 million quanta a month. (10 million quanta a month currently).

Meanwhile alt mission runners can get 133 times the amount of a Haven Tile Miner.
(EVERY MONTH this player falls 11 YEARS behind an alt mission runner in income earned.)

This is where some players say... well hold on, there are other things to do!

Asteroid mining: If you mine around 100kl of T1 ore this is now impacted and it will be worth only 500,000h for around 2-3 hours of game time. approximately 30 minutes to fly there, 30 minutes back, and then time to mine, along with some time to wait for a fresh asteroid to spawn for discovery.

2-3 hours of asteroid mining can easily be a person entire evening of gameplay. So if they dedicate every night after work plus babysitting your MUs.

The monthly earnings of an asteroid miner also collecting Haven MU + daily login is only around 22 million quanta.
 

Meanwhile alt mission runners can get 44 times the amount of an Asteroid Miner.
(EVERY MONTH this player falls 3.7 YEARS behind an alt mission runner in income earned.)

Additional Arguments:
 

1. If you are going to an asteroid to mine T1 you are doing it wrong. (no guarantee T2 is there, or that T2 ore asteroid spawns in safe zone during player's gametime.)
2. Then shut up and go to PVP asteroids ( these are both further out, and a good likely hood you will lose your ship if you stay on the asteroid too long)
3. Then shut up and join an org! (Which typically exploit players for the benefit of org leadership, requiring the player give x% of their earnings to the org.)
4. Then shut up and alt mission run like the rest of us you loser! (which further breaks the economy, and puts casual players further behind.)
4. The shut up and quit the game! (which is what many players are doing in mass.)

You can't tell me this game isn't PAY TO WIN! 
You can't tell me NQ is trying to fix the economy whilst ignoring alt mission runners, and nerfing the base stable income of the majority of the player base.
 

  
I AM HIGHLIGHTING THIS...
 

58 minutes ago, Hecticus said:

Well you’re not wrong but. I’m not ready to quit. We are surviving but it’s mostly in donations from mission runners in the org(we don’t demand anything from our members). Shut that off and we’ll have to start shutting down miners, then the factory follows.

we are actually hoping to pull through this and be able to sell parts, ships, maybe even ore to the market on the other side. It’s not going to happens as long as NQ is standing over the economy with a frying pan in its hand.


This is heart breaking... 

Surviving... cause the system is now setup so a handful dictate who gets what handouts...
the scraps, the leftovers. we are hoping it gets better as long as the whales feed us.

I want the Developers to see this message. @NQ-Deckard @NQ-Sesch @NQ-Nyota

 

Edited by Rokkur
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I kept my post brief as possible otherwise no one would read it... and it is impossible to list every point and play style.

Industry/Factor player profit margins are squeezed.
Builders only earn if players are earning.
Most the decent T2+ tiles were consolidated into possession of alt mission runners and orgs in the beginning.
The concept of trickledown economics is also a myth, as we see how well billionaires and wealthy share their wealth and value/pay employees in RL.

I was also super conservative in my calculations I imagine things are actually way way worse than what I posted, but what I posted should be bad enough.

Think why would anyone with billions of quanta buy your ore, when they have their own MUs and can pay taxes for literal REAL LIFE YEARS! to produce their very own T1. No trickle down economy, Players will either leave or be exploited by the handful that have everything.

 

 

Edited by Rokkur
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There has been a lot of talk that mission running rewards are disproportionate when compared to other activities. I am not sure where the balance point should be for this but if tweaking were necessary, what methodology would you recommend? So far I have seen the following suggestions:

  1. Alter the risks associated with mission running in pvp space. (ie: change speed, radar visibility, shield strength, etc for constructs with packages)
  2. Change the overall quanta reward for missions either by a flat amount or through some kind of diminishing returns.
  3. Place limits on the number of missions that can be completed in a given timeframe and/or the number of packages that can be placed on a single construct.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Aaron Cain said:

kill npc missions


This! Don't make it complicated! KILL NPC MISSIONS!

The economy is supposed to be player driven. So if there are hauling missions they need to be PLAYER made!
Players with legitimate hauling needs shouldn't have to compete with a NQ built money printer to have their things hauled.

NPC missions are an AFK activity anyways, no one is really engaged with Dual Universe while their character is stuck in a ship for x hours hauling.

Hint: NQ won't do this cause then a lot of alts will be unsubscribed, un-DAC'ed, and they will lose revenue. Which another problem. What is good for NQ via revenue is conflicting with what is fun for the player because of the way NQ has designed the game. NQ relies on whale players, cause they have driven away the majority of their player base unwilling to sub for 10, 20, 40+ accounts.
 

Edited by Rokkur
Link to comment
Share on other sites

at the moment i spend a million a day for light schematics, and now you may think thats alot of lights but it is not. Once you are really trying to build stuff you will notice how broken the system is, so i should go on npc missions to get millions on afk time to get my schematics that take over 4 hrs per schematic to get and then the craft itself is relative easy. so about a day timesink to produce between 2 and 5 lights.......slightly exaggerated?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That seems a bit extreme. The npc mission system is rather popular and also serves as one of the game's quanta faucets. To completely scrap such a feature is unrealistic in my opinion. I think you would need to make a very convincing argument before NQ would even consider making such a drastic change and you would also need to have the support of the vast majority of players. It would be much more realistic to instead advocate for adjustments to bring said feature more in line with your expectations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Msoul please look ingame at light production, the Long L or square L and please give your opinion on how balanced that is with respect to an t2 L admos engine craft. Also with respect to player need vs building need.

 

Neutral opinion would be appreciated so your the perfect person :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Msoul said:

...before NQ would even consider making such a drastic change and you would also need to have the support of the vast majority of players

 

drastic changes is what NQ can do !

.. they're good at it

 

and from where do they get that "support" from players ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Aaron Cain said:

@Msoul please look ingame at light production, the Long L or square L and please give your opinion on how balanced that is with respect to an t2 L admos engine craft. Also with respect to player need vs building need.

I would be more than happy to take a look and report back about it. It is a bit off-topic here thou so I will make another thread later today and ping you so you can follow up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Jinxed said:

Just make it one mission package per ship limit and make it so you can’t dock a ship with a mission package, just like you can’t warp one. 
 

am I missing something?

Sounds good to me (if I'm understanding correctly how the "whales" are gaming the system, i.e they're sending umpteen packages belonging to multiple logged-off-on-the-freighter Alt accounts, so that they can collect the fee for completing umpteen hauling missions in the time it takes to fly one mission).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Rokkur said:

You can't tell me this game isn't PAY TO WIN! 
You can't tell me NQ is trying to fix the economy whilst ignoring alt mission runners, and nerfing the base stable income of the majority of the player base.

I can tell you anything I wish.  Convincing you that what I'm saying is correct is another matter.

 

This game ran out of fun a while back and is critically low on hope at this point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Wyndle said:

I can tell you anything I wish.  Convincing you that what I'm saying is correct is another matter.

 

This game ran out of fun a while back and is critically low on hope at this point.


Well you are right, people can say anything. they can say that all DU players are oranges... not reality, but they will still say it, and then distract from the original problem by deflecting the argument onto a discussion of what defines an orange... honestly this behavior is why I think as a species humans are pretty screwed right now.

Edited by Rokkur
Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Hecticus said:

Shutting off the LAST faucet isn’t going to make the game better. The ore faucet was wide open for almost all of beta and the game was much healthier then. If they really want this game to thrive, they should let the players play, instead of making it a struggle.


Well if you are going to shut off faucets to the majority of players to the game, what makes the handful of alt mission runners so special they should be immune to sharing the pain, despite the fact they are already billions of qaunta ahead of everyone else, so very little luck they will feel a lot of impact.

Don't worry, don't shut off the faucet, just go ahead and shut off the server. Cause that is what they are doing each time they impact new players, and other players, but leave abuse in play for a handful of NQ's whales.

Sure glad we wiped to come full circle, and quiet honestly... we would again even if we fixed the alt mission thing I am sure... somehow. so just shut the servers then the economy will be balanced between faucet and sinks, because everything will be zero.

Edited by Rokkur
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well you’re not wrong but. I’m not ready to quit. We are surviving but it’s mostly in donations from mission runners in the org(we don’t demand anything from our members). Shut that off and we’ll have to start shutting down miners, then the factory follows.

we are actually hoping to pull through this and be able to sell parts, ships, maybe even ore to the market on the other side. It’s not going to happens as long as NQ is standing over the economy with a frying pan in its hand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its a really sad day If NPC missions are the Only thing that keeps DU running.

 

Just think about what you are all saying.

 

NPC Missions are all there is that keeps DU running......Madness in an MMO

 

Its not A MassiveMissionrunningafkwithaltsOnline.

 

Can we rename it into DUh and have Homer Simpson as pet.

 

Seriously, someone needs to wake up if it is true that NPC missions keep DU running.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just wish they would relies everything they have done from .23 on has ruined the game  and the fun they should just roll it all back and admit they messed the game up and bring back players and keep some new ones game was much moor fun in alpha  now All we do is micromanage and make things harder on new players  if I just bought this and was struggling so hard just  two make a simple ship two go mine or pvp I would quite fast two  I wonder how many bought this on steam played 2 days and asked for their money back  I’m only playing because I have DAC and keep hoping I hear some good news of a update that brings fun instead of nerfing it moor I should know better though if beta shows anything was no good new features came just took things away  or restricted moor 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Hecticus said:

Well you’re not wrong but. I’m not ready to quit. We are surviving but it’s mostly in donations from mission runners in the org(we don’t demand anything from our members). Shut that off and we’ll have to start shutting down miners, then the factory follows.

we are actually hoping to pull through this and be able to sell parts, ships, maybe even ore to the market on the other side. It’s not going to happens as long as NQ is standing over the economy with a frying pan in its hand.


This is heart breaking... 

Surviving... cause the system is now setup so a handful dictate who gets what handouts...
the scraps, the leftovers. we are hoping it gets better as long as the whales feed us.

I want the Developers to see this message. @NQ-Deckard @NQ-Sesch @NQ-Nyota

 

Edited by Rokkur
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Kezzle said:

Hey, mission running isn't the only remaining faucet! We gets our daily handout, too!

 

I'll get my coat.


Read my original post, I did the math to include the daily handout.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Hecticus said:

It’s not going to happens as long as NQ is standing over the economy with a frying pan in its hand.

The economy is a vital component but it isn't the only component of the game that matters.  From my perspective, NQ is stuck in their own mini-game of knobs and levers without realizing the machine is spitting out metal fragments and sparks. It is the players that matter; the economy is just a tool to ease non-pvp interactions between said players.  If the brand-new day one player cannot play the game without being required to participate in a specific "optional" system then the design is a failure.  You can't call it a sandbox if there is only one viable means to participate.

 

If the situation were only the ore bots going away, with the community having been included in the plan, we could have weathered that without more than a few complaints.  If the situation were only adjusting the way MU provided ore, again with open communication about why it needs to be adjusted, we would adapt quickly with only a few complaints.  But in a dual wielded combo backstab?  And how can we see the misinformation provided by NQ as anything other in this case?  Even the sunk cost fallacy can only hold players in place for so long.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...