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It is clear to see they are trying to further kill off the game (heres why and the choices they have to improve or further kill the game) PVP/PVE game play


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On 11/24/2022 at 8:21 PM, CptLoRes said:

You obviously can't design a game around extreme outliners (a small minority of players with seemingly unlimited time to play and many alts), since that means the game will become mostly unplayable for the majority of players. And yet it seems like this is exactly what NQ is doing..

 

 

It was actually main "behind scenes" thing with whole "why 0.23".

 

24/7 players, outliners, lets call them that, at some moment hijacked whole internal/semi-internal discussion scene, doubling down on JC "no one needs to do everything", pressing JC and team with idea to actually go hard to reinforce it. I can call names actually, but don't want to go in jail again for "disinformation".

 

Anyway,  fixation idea of such players was in case 0.23 or something like that, that they FOR SURE will end up on top (because endless playtime, access to update leaks, sometimes exploits too) and will do disign, lua, industry and trading, "aristocratic" jobs so to say, while all casual plebs will be their mining slaves, buyers of their "hi-end" stuff. How nice!

 

But it backfired hard with majority of casuals just saying bye-bye, both to NQ and their planned "master race".

 

 

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1 hour ago, le_souriceau said:

 

It was actually main "behind scenes" thing with whole "why 0.23".

 

24/7 players, outliners, lets call them that, at some moment hijacked whole internal/semi-internal discussion scene, doubling down on JC "no one needs to do everything", pressing JC and team with idea to actually go hard to reinforce it. I can call names actually, but don't want to go in jail again for "disinformation".

 

Anyway,  fixation idea of such players was in case 0.23 or something like that, that they FOR SURE will end up on top (because endless playtime, access to update leaks, sometimes exploits too) and will do disign, lua, industry and trading, "aristocratic" jobs so to say, while all casual plebs will be their mining slaves, buyers of their "hi-end" stuff. How nice!

 

But it backfired hard with majority of casuals just saying bye-bye, both to NQ and their planned "master race".

 

 

That is a very serious allegation.  Even if I had not seen some of the discussion myself I would have come to a similar conclusion based on how things have prior and continue to play out.  To be frank, I don't care what the insiders have as long as it doesn't imbalance gamepla.... :unsure:  (Yes, I get that is the very definition of insider info)

 

I love the building system in DU.  I like the physics in flight.  I (barely) tolerate some of the required "optional" gameplay systems.  I am indifferent to PvP.  I dislike much/most of the UI.  I strongly dislike the game being tuned to the top tier of players.  I loathe the lack of things to hook new players.  But above all, I hate the rampant and seemingly encouraged cheating. 

 

If there is an ounce of truth to the allegations of insider info then NQ is on thin ice in legal terms and once the government(s) get involved the party may be over for everyone.

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Its not allegation, its fact (for me, ofc, you can believe me or not). Per example I personally knew about 0.23 main "changes" (not 100%, let's say critical parts of them) in gameplay consequences way around a 5-6 days before, around 1-2 day before day X it was open talk in some groups (again, I seen them by my own eyes) about how to use it, what to buy, what to sell, store etc. And they, like me, were relative "latecomers" to inside, people who got it fresh prob had month to prepare or at least couple of weeks. 

 

Same with pre-wipe ammount of exploits. I knew extent, so why I was talking about wipe from first weeks of Beta, there was no other way to deal with sheer size of bad assets.

 

I tried to expose it, but people mostly not believed me. And who was right?

 

Anyway, its more like history now. 

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I got this great idea....  Lets do things to this game that will improve P2P interactions......  Pets and emotes....  Like we sit around and chit chat.  .....  I see people blazing by at lightning speed.  By the time I do an emote they will probably already be in a ship and gone. 

But new players can't even get paid or buy useful land to them now.    This game already end game and dying.  And I paid for a year!  T3 ore price has now killed what's left of the market for those that don't own t3 land.  A decent ship going ot run you 100mil and you can't even get a 100 mil in 4-5 months because there is no one buying stuff.  

 

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On 11/29/2022 at 12:30 PM, DerbyDude said:

I got this great idea....  Lets do things to this game that will improve P2P interactions......  Pets and emotes....  Like we sit around and chit chat.  .....  I see people blazing by at lightning speed.  By the time I do an emote they will probably already be in a ship and gone. 

But new players can't even get paid or buy useful land to them now.    This game already end game and dying.  And I paid for a year!  T3 ore price has now killed what's left of the market for those that don't own t3 land.  A decent ship going ot run you 100mil and you can't even get a 100 mil in 4-5 months because there is no one buying stuff.  

 

This is probably the single best argument for keeping market bots in the game. No one's buying T1 ores, and people severely undercut the sell orders for everything else, to even their own detriment. I'm convinced the people who undercut so much have no idea what their time is actually worth.

 

That being said, I agree. eventually it'll take months to save up to buy a ship, or all the parts you can't make to build a ship, and even longer if you want to make all the parts. This game is a major grindfest with no real reward, and it makes me sad.

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On 11/29/2022 at 8:38 AM, le_souriceau said:

Its not allegation, its fact (for me, ofc, you can believe me or not). Per example I personally knew about 0.23 main "changes" (not 100%, let's say critical parts of them) in gameplay consequences way around a 5-6 days before, around 1-2 day before day X it was open talk in some groups (again, I seen them by my own eyes) about how to use it, what to buy, what to sell, store etc. And they, like me, were relative "latecomers" to inside, people who got it fresh prob had month to prepare or at least couple of weeks. 

 

Same with pre-wipe ammount of exploits. I knew extent, so why I was talking about wipe from first weeks of Beta, there was no other way to deal with sheer size of bad assets.

 

I tried to expose it, but people mostly not believed me. And who was right?

 

Anyway, its more like history now. 

I remember that whole dumpster fire. I remember the near endless discussion on the .23 insider scandal, and how JC/NQ and those same players you're talking about defended the changes as "necessary." Literally, in a few short hours of maintenance, everything I'd built was useless. I was devastated and it made me mad. I tried to recover, but there was no use. I spent everything I had schematics just to try to get back to where I was before. I just didn't have the millions to run the few machines I had, so I gave up and cancelled.

 

It really seems like NQ hasn't learned to listen to all of player feedback, not just a select few, or maybe not at all? It really is telling how they make all of these changes garbage changes that don't help the majority of players, but rather hinders them. That doesn't retain players. At all.

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On 11/29/2022 at 3:38 PM, le_souriceau said:

Its not allegation, its fact (for me, ofc, you can believe me or not). Per example I personally knew about 0.23 main "changes" (not 100%, let's say critical parts of them) in gameplay consequences way around a 5-6 days before, around 1-2 day before day X it was open talk in some groups (again, I seen them by my own eyes) about how to use it, what to buy, what to sell, store etc. And they, like me, were relative "latecomers" to inside, people who got it fresh prob had month to prepare or at least couple of weeks. 

 

Same with pre-wipe ammount of exploits. I knew extent, so why I was talking about wipe from first weeks of Beta, there was no other way to deal with sheer size of bad assets.

 

I tried to expose it, but people mostly not believed me. And who was right?

 

Anyway, its more like history now. 

 

Yep its indeed fact, got the same information in discord screens after the 0.23 from several peoples. Mainly because i was trying to get CATS of the ground and had alot if discussions with loads of people and that all changed after 0.23 due to what was written in the quoted text.

Also the next thing happening was an error on schematic prices that was seen by "some" and was used to make billions what was not acted upon even external sell sites were shared to block players but nothing happened.

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23 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:

 

Also the next thing happening was an error on schematic prices that was seen by "some" and was used to make billions what was not acted upon even external sell sites were shared to block players but nothing happened.

 

Im sure at this point (of schematics prices exploit) NQ already knew they will be 100% wiping, so they just outwaited whole thing, tanking damage, because it was unrational to waste energy to deal with this stuff, considering it all go to fire anyway.

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13 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:

 

Im sure at this point (of schematics prices exploit) NQ already knew they will be 100% wiping, so they just outwaited whole thing, tanking damage, because it was unrational to waste energy to deal with this stuff, considering it all go to fire anyway.

If that is true, it would mean that the whole "we have not decided yet" wipe discussion was just theatrics and that NQ has zero respect for players..

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2 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

When it comes to NQ I think Hanlon's razor is a better explanation for most things that happens.

"never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

 

In way you right. It was not about malice, but self preservation. They needed game to stay somewhat populated until they were ready to go on wipe and launch. If they were like, hey, guys, we will wipe in 6 m, its 100%. Who will be playing? 

 

Was it honest? Ofc not.

 

Was it making sense from NQ position. Yes. 

 

Gamedev is buisness. And buisness is not usually good or bad, its just cynical.

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On 11/29/2022 at 12:30 PM, DerbyDude said:
But new players can't even get paid or buy useful land to them now.    This game already end game and dying.  And I paid for a year!  T3 ore price has now killed what's left of the market for those that don't own t3 land.  A decent ship going ot run you 100mil and you can't even get a 100 mil in 4-5 months because there is no one buying stuff.  

 

1) T3 prices are in the sh*tter.

2) Depends on your definition of decent I suppose, but a decent ship can be had for more like 10 mil, and you can build your own decent ship for 5 or less.

3) you can easily get 100mil in 4-5 months running missions with a 2.5 mil (build cost of my personal ship) ship. Agreed you won’t make that selling things, unless you find the right thing to sell..

 
I’m not saying everything here is peachy, cause it isn’t. Hyperbolic statements just muddy the waters though.

 

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5 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

When it comes to NQ I think Hanlon's razor is a better explanation for most things that happens.

"never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Regardless of which is more accurate, we all lose.  Including DU.

 

At what point is it reasonable to walk away from a growing pile of mistakes?

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It seems the original topic here as proposed by Snow, was about which style of gameplay is preferred, one of abundant resources and heavy sinks or scarce resources and light sinks. This is actually a very interesting question so perhaps we could get back to it and stop with all the off-topic speculating and non-constructive comments.

 

Personally I prefer something in between because if you venture too far to one side your essentially in creative mode (which gets boring very quickly) and too far to the other side your grinding resources 24/7. The question then becomes where is that healthy midpoint? How much grind is acceptable and how do we quantify it? I suppose one way would be to base it off the time required for a solo player to acquire a decent ship. In which case how about scaling it like so:

  • Tier 1 = 1-2 hours
  • Tier 2 = 1-2 days
  • Tier 3 = 1-2 weeks
  • Tier 4 = 1-2 months
  • Tier 5 = 6-8 months

Is that being to generous or is that too grind heavy? How would you structure it?

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9 minutes ago, Msoul said:

the time required for a solo player to acquire a decent ship. In which case how about scaling it like so:

  • Tier 1 = 1-2 hours
  • Tier 2 = 1-2 days
  • Tier 3 = 1-2 weeks
  • Tier 4 = 1-2 months
  • Tier 5 = 6-8 months

Is that being to generous or is that too grind heavy? How would you structure it?

If we could only.  I'm still flying the same XS core with about half of the parts in it original to day 1.  The ship has only improved due to on-place talent boosts.  I was investing all of my effort into avoiding spending and helping build a functional factory.  Then the nerf hammer started hitting and I've been crushed repeatedly.

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35 minutes ago, Msoul said:

It seems the original topic here as proposed by Snow, was about which style of gameplay is preferred, one of abundant resources and heavy sinks or scarce resources and light sinks. This is actually a very interesting question so perhaps we could get back to it and stop with all the off-topic speculating and non-constructive comments.

 

Currently DU is neither. Ore is abundant (still, in spite of the toning down of calibration mining), but money is not. Unfortunately, money sinks are deep and voracious (and don't eat ore), even though the faucet has been turned down to a dribble, from its initial firehose state. NQ don't seem to comprehend this; they don't comprehend that people don't necssarily have the time to consistently run missions.

 

It's not some high level discussion about style of game; NQ don't understand what they have well enough (or if they do, they're laughing up their sleeves at us all as they ratchet up the social compliance experiment) to actually make changes that keep the game fun. There's abundant evidence of this over the last couple of years.

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7 minutes ago, Kezzle said:

Currently DU is neither. Ore is abundant (still, in spite of the toning down of calibration mining), but money is not. Unfortunately, money sinks are deep and voracious (and don't eat ore), even though the faucet has been turned down to a dribble, from its initial firehose state. NQ don't seem to comprehend this; they don't comprehend that people don't necssarily have the time to consistently run missions.

 

It's not some high level discussion about style of game; NQ don't understand what they have well enough (or if they do, they're laughing up their sleeves at us all as they ratchet up the social compliance experiment) to actually make changes that keep the game fun. There's abundant evidence of this over the last couple of years.

I have to disagree about ore abundance.  It may be more accurate to describe it as: those who make stuff tend to strive to be self-sufficient which means adjusting the faucet doesn't have the results one would think to be desirable and leaving the solo and small org out in the cold.  I agree wholeheartedly that the sinks are absurd.  I would go one step further to specify that the sinks are one of the components doing the most damage to the steam users since us old-timers know enough about the game to be capable of adapting.  For a first time player there isn't enough "game" available to them to entice them to pay a second month.  

 

I would have said that NQ doesn't understand what they have in this project until the CEO tried to describe their metaverse product.  From my perspective that just leaves a series of conflicting interests and blind adherence to the wrong focii in the original concept described (kick-starter) despite having so much greater potential.  Or you could be correct in calling this a social compliance experiment.  I have no direct evidence for it but far too many coincidences to dismiss it either.

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49 minutes ago, Wyndle said:
1 hour ago, Kezzle said:

 

I have to disagree about ore abundance. 

The market says it's abundant. There's more slopping about than people can/want to use, so the prices are rock bottom. Money (for schematics, mostly) is the bottleneck.

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There lots of ore on the market sure, there are lots of players who don’t do anything with ore but sell it. -They got the memo that it’s worth more than they can make on parts with it.. even with the ore prices where they are -here’s the rub; we’re trying to run a factory. We are getting enough T1, sure, but can’t say the same about T2 at all, and all our money is spent on taxes and schematics. We CAN’T buy that ore that’s in the market. So we slog along and produce what we can (factory is all but stopped atm) and run missions to pay the rent. How is this better than competing against whales in the market? Hell we weren’t even at that point, we’re still filling internal orders.

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2 hours ago, Kezzle said:

The market says it's abundant. There's more slopping about than people can/want to use, so the prices are rock bottom. Money (for schematics, mostly) is the bottleneck.

The market is imbalanced due to a number of factors.  Too much T1 and not enough of just about everything else.  Clapping all but one of the faucets shut backfired catastrophically.  The economy isn't dead but segments of it are starting to bloat and smell bad.  

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 In the original design, ore output scales down as you go up in tiers, presumably to give appropriate rarity to the ores by tier. The T2 throttling on live  is obviously an intentional bottleneck, they can’t even call it fine tuning it’s such a comparatively crude fix.

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On 12/2/2022 at 5:10 PM, Wyndle said:

Regardless of which is more accurate, we all lose.  Including DU.

 

At what point is it reasonable to walk away from a growing pile of mistakes?

As I said I would, I stopped playing after the wipe.

But I still try to keep up on what happens in the game just to see how much worse they can manage to make it.

 

Call in an morbid fascination if you will..

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