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Is it safe yet? (November 20th, 2022)


Pleione

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With the rapid decline in player base as reported here is Roid hunting now generally safe or are PVPers still overwhelming them?  Interested in both weekend activity and during the week when player count is apparently down a lot.

 

About to start this aspect of the game and just curious what to expect.  Of course, my ship has a radar and shield, for whatever good that does me.

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You will never be completely safe.

But with a few basic recommendations, you can get by:
 

- For your first outing use a small ship and tell yourself that you will die with it. It will force you to use some things that you can lose and since the mourning of this ship is already done, it will affect you less if it really happens.
 

- Always to reduce the price of a possible loss, asteroids are in space, only go there with a complete spaceship (no hybrid/atmo ship). You can also use pieces that have already lost 1 life.
 

- Do not be too greedy, limit your mining time.
 

- Do the astroids 1 by 1. Looter => Go home
Do not chain asteroids one after another.
 

- Try not to take any road on the way back
 

- Don't go to the biggest roid (exotic/rare)
 

- You can discover a roid, but don't mine it, come back later in the week.
 

- You can already go to an asteroid discovered several days ago.
 

- Arm yourself and go there with friends

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6 hours ago, Habitant said:

That counts only steam players . Its not the entire DU population.

Even then I was expecting more people but it is what it is .

 

Not to be rude, but "*duh*".  Alas, NQ turned off their API that provided any usage stats many years ago.  So one has to use the stats one has.

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lol - made my first run with my mining partner today.  We targeted an uncommon, rumored, roid about 90 su out - it was in safe space. 

 

With 77 minutes until having its location broadcast, we arrived and discovered 26(!) other ships already there.

 

Heading 450SU into PVP space to see if we can find an unmolested T1 Roid.   

 

Yeah, its Monday, but was hoping there would be something left.

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4 hours ago, Zeddrick said:

Yes, roids are 100% safe.  I go to them every day and have yet to see a PvPer.  You don't even need to bring a radar!

 

As stated by a PVPer.  Just lost a 3M blueprint ship that took me over a week to build.  My org mate and I spent the better part of the day getting to a common Roid 500 SU out.  We were underground, with shields up, when an XS combat ship just landed next to us and blew it away, then flew it out - with 4 veins of copper and 1 of petalite.

 

PVE'er:  At least a week, maybe two of effort (as is 80 work hours)

PVP'er:  an hour or two

 

This is balanced how?  Shields were up but of course shields are worthless.  Ship had a space radar but of course, 10000 years in the future, we don't have any ship to player communication to warn that someone else was coming.  Not that it likely would have helped.

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6 minutes ago, Pleione said:

Ship had a space radar but of course, 10000 years in the future, we don't have any ship to player communication to warn that someone else was coming.

 

You need to pay for multiple accounts and have one in the ship to alert you when something is in radar range.

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The extra person would not have been any good. 

By the time people get out of the moon you're dead.

If the ship takes off without the mining crew to try, and I stress try to get away, the incoming ship is on you and you're still dead.

 

I don't mind PVP, what I Mind is that PVP is so overwhelmingly unfair and in this case makes no sense that it goes against the story line of the game.

 

I guess Going to the school yard and ganking the blind kid is what is promoted here, i/e abuse others its ok and take great pride in your abuse of others.

 

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8 hours ago, Pleione said:

 

As stated by a PVPer.  Just lost a 3M blueprint ship that took me over a week to build.  My org mate and I spent the better part of the day getting to a common Roid 500 SU out.  We were underground, with shields up, when an XS combat ship just landed next to us and blew it away, then flew it out - with 4 veins of copper and 1 of petalite.

 

PVE'er:  At least a week, maybe two of effort (as is 80 work hours)

PVP'er:  an hour or two

 

This is balanced how?  Shields were up but of course shields are worthless.  Ship had a space radar but of course, 10000 years in the future, we don't have any ship to player communication to warn that someone else was coming.  Not that it likely would have helped.

Sorry but it looks like you didn't really follow my recommendations that I wrote earlier in the thread.

Maybe something wasn't clear and specific enough.
 

You seem to have died in one of the most ridiculous ways possible. Your opponent only needed afk on this roid and pull out an XS core and a gun to kill you.
 

=> Was the asteroid you are going to already discovered?
If yes, since when ?
If it was you who discovered it, you shouldn't mine on it right away but come back later.
 

- Did your ship have a powerful enough shield (at least a Shield Generator S) and a little shield voxel to be able to tank voxel ? (1,000m3 of steel does not cost that much)
 

- Did you have a weapon to kill this XS vessel? an XS ship is not a big threat at all. A pair of S cannon even without talent would have got the better of him.
 

- Do you use a resurrection node to quickly return to your ship in case of an attack ?
 

- Try to mine close to your ship to hear attack sounds.

 

- 3M seems to be a bit too big a budget. What was your ship? Was it really a full space ship ?

- A 500 SU asteroid is not a "safe" or far away asteroid.
He may have been 500su from you on Alioth. But only 20Su from Teoma or Jago. So a very close asteroid for a PvP to come watch it.

 

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8 hours ago, Pleione said:

 

As stated by a PVPer.  Just lost a 3M blueprint ship that took me over a week to build.  My org mate and I spent the better part of the day getting to a common Roid 500 SU out.  We were underground, with shields up, when an XS combat ship just landed next to us and blew it away, then flew it out - with 4 veins of copper and 1 of petalite.

 

PVE'er:  At least a week, maybe two of effort (as is 80 work hours)

PVP'er:  an hour or two

 

This is balanced how?  Shields were up but of course shields are worthless.  Ship had a space radar but of course, 10000 years in the future, we don't have any ship to player communication to warn that someone else was coming.  Not that it likely would have helped.

 

I was, of course, being a bit sarcastic there.

 

Actually you can have a PB on your ship linked to the radar and run that before you get off the ship.  That can notify you when it sees anything on radar.  It still might not save you of course because you'll be slow with ore.

 

There are lots of mitigations you can do though to make yourself safer though and you can even take PvPers with you if you want to be really safe.

 

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On 11/21/2022 at 6:34 PM, Habitant said:

That counts only steam players . Its not the entire DU population.

Even then I was expecting more people but it is what it is .

 

Sounds like an NQ bot, but we know NQ never reads the forums, so this is likely a legit player... SMH

As with everything... ever... It's the trend that is far more important than the absolute figures.

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26 minutes ago, Daphne Jones said:

I heard Legion got wiped out on an asteroid they were mining a couple of days ago, so I'd say it's not safe.

The fight you are referring to appears to be the fleet fight that took place on a station with a shield planted by Lodestar.
 

The server died before the fight really entered an interesting phase. The losses are more than limited compared to the number of ships involved.
 

It's not just a mining ope gone wrong. But a fleets who to try to destroy / defend a station.

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5 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

Sorry but it looks like you didn't really follow my recommendations that I wrote earlier in the thread.

Maybe something wasn't clear and specific enough.
 

You seem to have died in one of the most ridiculous ways possible. Your opponent only needed afk on this roid and pull out an XS core and a gun to kill you.
 

=> Was the asteroid you are going to already discovered?
If yes, since when ?
If it was you who discovered it, you shouldn't mine on it right away but come back later.
 

- Did your ship have a powerful enough shield (at least a Shield Generator S) and a little shield voxel to be able to tank voxel ? (1,000m3 of steel does not cost that much)
 

- Did you have a weapon to kill this XS vessel? an XS ship is not a big threat at all. A pair of S cannon even without talent would have got the better of him.
 

- Do you use a resurrection node to quickly return to your ship in case of an attack ?
 

- Try to mine close to your ship to hear attack sounds.

 

- 3M seems to be a bit too big a budget. What was your ship? Was it really a full space ship ?

- A 500 SU asteroid is not a "safe" or far away asteroid.
He may have been 500su from you on Alioth. But only 20Su from Teoma or Jago. So a very close asteroid for a PvP to come watch it.

 

 

No, it was not discovered.  When we landed we had something like 80 minutes before broadcast, but spent more time than that getting the 5 veins of ore.

 

Yes, it had an S generator that was enabled.

 

No, we are Roid hunters and did not have an extra person to leave behind to man guns (which would have made us PVPers) or to alert us the ship was under attack.

 

No indication our ship was under attack until our linked container disappeared.    Yes, it had a resurrection node but without knowing it was being attacked, no indication to use it.

 

Veins of T2+ ore were not close to the ship.

 

3M for https://du-creators.org/makers/LiftOff/ship/Cyclops DSAS  Author has since lowered the BP price to 2M.

 

Good point, we spotted Jago about 40km away.   Will have to start examining locations prior to flying to them if we ever attempt this again.  Right now Org is pretty much in a "F**K that..." mood, closing down one entire game loop.

 

Appreciate the feedback, but please don't assume we are complete idiots despite our actions.

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2 hours ago, Daphne Jones said:

I heard Legion got wiped out on an asteroid they were mining a couple of days ago, so I'd say it's not safe.

 

And that is the type of fact based feedback I wanted to hear.  Thanks!

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This game is absolutely r----d in that it doesn't even send a message that your ship is under attack but instead sends a generic... "Your primary container is now your nano pack" or some other equally fkkn stupid message.

NQ's likely retort: We've only had six years to get our shiit together, we need MOAR THYME.

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1 hour ago, Jinxed said:

NQ's likely retort: We've only had six years to get our shiit together, we need MOAR THYME.

Oh, be fair: they haven't had asteroid mining online for six years yet. What they need is more rosemary, and garlic, to go with the roast lamb...

 

;)

 

A lot of the "lamb to the slaughter" status of miners in PvP-space is down to the simplistic scanning model. Lurking on the surface of an asteroid orter make your ship largely impossible to detect, from very far away at all, and completely impossible to detect from "some" directions. Sure, we can posit a sensor model where physical obstructions make no difference to detection chances, but where's the fun in that? Seems like NQ didn't really think about "fun".

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1 hour ago, Pleione said:

Not helpful.

But being helpful is being ignored... Knight-sevy was very helpful and you ignored most of what was said, especially the essential parts!

 

You want to play the game your way and only your way, that is not how games work, unless you make them yourself. The game has mechanics you seem to be ignoring, even after having them pointed out to you. Spending 80+min on a pvp asteroid, not leaving anyone behind to check the ship... This is what happens.

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1 hour ago, Cergorach said:

But being helpful is being ignored... Knight-sevy was very helpful and you ignored most of what was said, especially the essential parts!

 

You want to play the game your way and only your way, that is not how games work, unless you make them yourself. The game has mechanics you seem to be ignoring, even after having them pointed out to you. Spending 80+min on a pvp asteroid, not leaving anyone behind to check the ship... This is what happens.

And this (PvP imbalance) will continue to drive off anyone that is a solo player or doesn't want to join a big group.  No new players coming to the rescue.  And participation falls until the economy can no longer be sustained. 

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16 hours ago, Pleione said:

Appreciate the feedback, but please don't assume we are complete idiots despite our actions.


 

Don't get me wrong, if I wanted to help you it was so that you realize that asteroids are profitable (really they are).

The goal is to be able to kill you from time to time on it. Not all the time so you can keep wanting to come back: risk and reward.

You would have had a good amount of ore and every once in a while I could have come and killed you.


 

16 hours ago, Pleione said:

 

No, it was not discovered.  When we landed we had something like 80 minutes before broadcast, but spent more time than that getting the 5 veins of ore.

 

Yes, it had an S generator that was enabled.

 

No, we are Roid hunters and did not have an extra person to leave behind to man guns (which would have made us PVPers) or to alert us the ship was under attack.

 

No indication our ship was under attack until our linked container disappeared.    Yes, it had a resurrection node but without knowing it was being attacked, no indication to use it.

 

Veins of T2+ ore were not close to the ship.

 

3M for https://du-creators.org/makers/LiftOff/ship/Cyclops DSAS  Author has since lowered the BP price to 2M.

 

Good point, we spotted Jago about 40km away.   Will have to start examining locations prior to flying to them if we ever attempt this again.  Right now Org is pretty much in a "F**K that..." mood, closing down one entire game loop.

 


Let's resume:
 

- If you discover an asteroid yourself DO NOT MINE IT
Come back later to mine it or go to one that has already been discovered for a few days.
 

- Don't stay that long, especially for your first outing
 

- Thanks for the ship reference. It is a good ship to discover the asteroid but certainly not to mine on it (in the PvP zone). The DSAT is something you can leave at your base.
It costs a good part of the price of the ship, it's heavy and bulky.
 

- On the DSAT you have the indication to which planet is "related" the asteroid. The maximum spawn distance should be within 150 Su.

Good luck for the next try

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