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Why should I keep playing, NQ?


CobaltNZ
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I've played DU for a couple of years now and I'm struggling to find a reason to keep playing. I can't comprehend why NQ is so insistent on forcing PVP: This game doesn't have PVP, and it never has. PVP suggests both players have a chance. If I decide to  fly my hauler through "PVP" space and I get found by a pirate, I am not surviving it. I have absolutely zero chance of getting away. That's not PVP, that's slaughter.

With the market bots being removed from everywhere but Teoma and Jago, the best offer for coal on Market 6 is 10.1 q/L. So, if I want to get anything close to a reasonable price for my ore, I need to risk losing everything by flying through slaughter space.

Industry and ore are the two reasons I'm still playing. Back before NQ decided to nerf mining to death, I was hard core miner. All of these have now been removed to, as far as I can see, create "PVP". The lag is no better, AT ALL, than it was in beta. NQ told us that they were removing mining nodes because, in part, of the lag the mining tunnels caused. Well that obviously wasn't true because nothing has changed.

I contacted support 2.5 weeks ago and have heard nothing in that time. How can support be so much faster and so much better in beta than it is on release?


And don't even get me started on calibrating mining machines. I've had to create two alts and pay for their subscription just to maintain my mining machines. I have a decent coal flower and in a week it mined just under 500kL. Remember when you could mine that in a few hours? Cause I do.

Artificial speed limits when travelling through space and yet another downtime for maintenance in my prime time gaming time made me fail my first ever mission yesterday. I got to 24km away from the drop off point when it failed. Cost me 9 million quanta in quest reward and collateral that I would have used to pay for territories. Now I'm stuck. If I don't spend 8-12 hours at a time logged on, flying through slaughter space, I can't pay for my territories, and if I can't do that then I can't mine and if I can't do that then I have no money. And of I have no money then I can't pay for my territories. Territory tax - what a fantastic idea that was.

I'm seriously struggling to find a reason to keep playing, and at every turn, NQ does it's best to take away everything that attracted me to this game in the first place.

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Edited by CobaltNZ
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Yeah, I agree. I'm in the same place. Long ago NQ nerfed the ability to mine manually on planet, so the game became pretty boring. You don't really have anything to do while literally WAITING on skills to train other than building valueless little constructs waiting to make enough money to get off-planet to higher tier resources.

Then they nerf calibration exploit so DU is now really just an Idle Clicker.

The ideology behind the economy has driven it into the ground. Base, unrefined resources have more value to sell than high-tier industrial element, and even the base resources are so cheap they are hardly worth idle-mining.

Alioth is a prison with nothing interesting or challenging to do. I'm part of one of the larger orgs and it's still a prison.

I have been a supporter since Kickstarter, but NQ really has done just about everything they can to reduce the value and fun of the game. It seems like such poor decision-making with such great potential. I still have more than a year's worth of DAC just from supporter rewards, and it's not even worth playing for free anymore.

Maybe I'll jump back on in a year or two if it hasn't continued to ride the rocket down into a ghost-town shell of obscurity.

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To answer the title of your post... short answer, you shouldn't. We all need to learn how to let things go, this game needs to shut down. It had it's chance, we gave our money, our feedback, our creativity, our effort, most of all thousands of hours of our time. 

I feel people who subscribed for additional years of play time right before launch, when they used fear of missing out tactics before price hike to get us to put money in should be refunded whatever is left, and servers shut down. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in denial of the harsh reality this game will not improve

Edited by Rokkur
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3 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

It's an MMO, I play with other players and magically I have NONE of the problems you mention

 

Just because it is an MMO, doesn't mean that everyone should magically HAVE to play with others. 

 

The game was always designed around the fact that a solo or small group will never be able to compete to larger groups or orgs (which is fine). However, in recent times, the facilitation and mechanics revolving around solo play meant that playing this way has become almost impossible to make any headway at all. A solo player should always be able to make progress albeit at a slower pace than larger more organised groups.

 

That is the problem. 

 

It's a personal choice to be a lone wolf even in an MMO game. Forcing the solo lone wolves into game mechanics such as PVP or into large orgs to be swallowed into their machine is a one way ticket to players leaving.

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What someone else said, you shouldn't, unless you want to.

 

I've been struggling with that myself. I have four accounts, my main's subscription is lapsing on Monday and I'm considering not extending. The other three have longer (already paid for) subscriptions due to beta subscription issues on my main...

 

The last couple of weeks, constructing more stuff I just wasn't motivated for it. I was trying to keep my ~40 mining tiles up and running and have let that slip the last couple of weeks as well a few times... DU is a grindy time pit, that I'm redoing the same thing I already did the last couple of years in beta (a few times), rebuilding industry and infrastructure. It is boring and quickly losses my interest. And EVE Online (and other projects) have been gaining my interest...

 

What I've considered the last few weeks:

- Giving up completely on DU, it's a timesink that's not very fun a lot of the time and not very fulfilling. It's uncertain future also does not help.

- Just not extending my characters after the current subscription expires and just dip in once in a while when I feel the 'itch'. But that isn't a good idea because my unsubscriped characters will eventually go POOF(tm) and I would have to start from scratch again...

- Extend the subscription for a month and see if we have a good Blackfriday/Cybermonday/Holiday sale in the meantime. Where extending the accounts doesn't feel like throwing a lot of money in a pit, just a little money in a pit...

 

Ingame:

- Deconstruct the 40 mining tiles and put it all in storage.

- But what if they fix the mining pricing just or a few weeks after I put it all in storage?

- Rebuild the factory line again for more efficiency and expand what I build, but it's such a chore...

- Build a couple of ships and do something different in DU

 

Meanwhile it's not as if I have nothing else to do...

- EVE Online seems interesting again...

- I bought a ton of games during the sales that are actual fun to play...

- I have a very fun 3D printer kit (Voron 2.4 350) that takes 30-40 hours to build and would be actually interesting to build vs. redoing the DU factory again...

- Some other fun and interesting tech projects...

 

So yeah, it's actually difficult to let go of DU and in my case that might or might not happen shortly...

 

As for your specific issues:

a.) NEVER run pvp space missions during the weekend! Depending on your timezone, I already stopped running missions Friday afternoon (during beta) as some people pirates in other timezones already started playing. With the current player population, pirate population and only two pvp space planets I'm not even sure how safe pvp space is during the rest of the week, maybe I'll find out...

b.) Currently you can sell your ore at M6 for 13+q/L, all your 450k coal. Also, the weekend might not be the best time to sell as many people want to do the same.

c.) Why are you using 3 accounts to mine just a coal flower? My 4 accounts can optimally (and that might be something different from what you think it is) 'service' 225 auto miners (at max skills), with 3 per tile, that is 75 tiles. Trust me, that's a lot of work!

d.) Always check downtime announcements in the discord if you are doing time sensitive stuff, especially if you're cutting it close. They often do announce late, so you might be buggered either way... 😉

e.) If you're short on cash, do the 180k Alioth mission with you three accounts at the same time (540k per run). You can do that pretty cheaply in an expanded Apex (UEF ship), someone is/was also selling an lvl5 BPC version for it which helps immensely. Add a couple of containers to the hub to get the 30k storage you need for 3 accounts. You can fly the 'cheap' way through atmo, takes about 45 minutes to and from. Or you can do it way faster through low orbit, but that does consume T2 space fuel...

f.) You can mine the 'old' way, but only in asteroids. Might not be your thing, but I wanted to do that eventually as well.

Edited by Cergorach
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8 hours ago, Cergorach said:

- EVE Online seems interesting again...

 

 

I got the free week of Omega the other day. Aside from the HAC changes and the new UI, not much has changed; but I'm still glad I didn't give all of my stuff away because I might have to go back after all. Even though I've paid for a year on 3 characters, it's a constant struggle. I'm not sure I want to keep wasting time on a game where I can barely keep my operations afloat - never mind actually progress - without a agreeing to massive time commitment and/or joining one of the largest orgs.

 

I just don't understand the logic behind the direction NQ seems to be taking this game. I keep hearing that they want to slow progress to the end game; but this is a sandbox MMO. The only end game is what players make of it. All these changes have done is empower large, organized groups at the expense of everyone else. It was already going to be nearly impossible to challenge the larger orgs, but now it's going to be all but impossible. They're sitting on so many resources that no one else has any chance of accessing that they'll never be dislodged from their place at the top of the pile. The game isn't even 2 months old and there's already almost no room for growth for a new player. It's infuriating, it didn't have to be this way and it's all due to poor decisions on the part of NQ. There are so many relatively easy changes NQ could make to improve quality of life, but they only seem interested in going the opposite direction. CCP took decades to lose touch with what players wanted; and they're starting to come around on that. NQ took months and they're only getting worse.

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20 minutes ago, Devilish said:

they want to slow progress to the end game;

Well, if you ask me, the fact that there is an "end game" is one of their original design flaws. Taking the concept of Tiers from MMOs like WoW was a numbnuts mistake to begin with.

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23 hours ago, CobaltNZ said:

I've played DU for a couple of years now and I'm struggling to find a reason to keep playing. I can't comprehend why NQ is so insistent on forcing PVP: This game doesn't have PVP, and it never has. PVP suggests both players have a chance. If I decide to  fly my hauler through "PVP" space and I get found by a pirate, I am not surviving it. I have absolutely zero chance of getting away. That's not PVP, that's slaughter.

With the market bots being removed from everywhere but Teoma and Jago, the best offer for coal on Market 6 is 10.1 q/L. So, if I want to get anything close to a reasonable price for my ore, I need to risk losing everything by flying through slaughter space.

Industry and ore are the two reasons I'm still playing. Back before NQ decided to nerf mining to death, I was hard core miner. All of these have now been removed to, as far as I can see, create "PVP". The lag is no better, AT ALL, than it was in beta. NQ told us that they were removing mining nodes because, in part, of the lag the mining tunnels caused. Well that obviously wasn't true because nothing has changed.

I contacted support 2.5 weeks ago and have heard nothing in that time. How can support be so much faster and so much better in beta than it is on release?


And don't even get me started on calibrating mining machines. I've had to create two alts and pay for their subscription just to maintain my mining machines. I have a decent coal flower and in a week it mined just under 500kL. Remember when you could mine that in a few hours? Cause I do.

Artificial speed limits when travelling through space and yet another downtime for maintenance in my prime time gaming time made me fail my first ever mission yesterday. I got to 24km away from the drop off point when it failed. Cost me 9 million quanta in quest reward and collateral that I would have used to pay for territories. Now I'm stuck. If I don't spend 8-12 hours at a time logged on, flying through slaughter space, I can't pay for my territories, and if I can't do that then I can't mine and if I can't do that then I have no money. And of I have no money then I can't pay for my territories. Territory tax - what a fantastic idea that was.

I'm seriously struggling to find a reason to keep playing, and at every turn, NQ does it's best to take away everything that attracted me to this game in the first place.

image.png

As a player with years of experience having these issues, what do you think the new player experience would be?  Would someone new to DU today even consider a resub?

 

AFAIK, the only people having any fun in this game at the moment are the ones who just want to blow up other people's hard work.  I fell in love with the old mining system and the building.  There was a glimmer of hope for asteroids but the current implementation started as a really bad joke and has only soured from there.  I have spent more time looking at the MU mini-game since launch than most of my ships existed before being rebuilt in Beta yet I have spent less time in build mode since launch than I spent looking at the logon screen during Beta.  I can see the remnants of the original vision at the heart of what DU is today but it is now devoid of all passion and fun, IMO.

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On 11/19/2022 at 3:40 PM, Cergorach said:

 

 

Meanwhile it's not as if I have nothing else to do...

- EVE Online seems interesting again...

- I bought a ton of games during the sales that are actual fun to play...

- I have a very fun 3D printer kit (Voron 2.4 350) that takes 30-40 hours to build and would be actually interesting to build vs. redoing the DU factory again...

- Some other fun and interesting tech projects...

I'm looking at the Starship Evo. The game is supported by one person, all the more interesting to see that DU has not gone far ahead of him. Unfortunately there is no normal network game yet. But as a constructor, he is already better)))

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Cant find a reason to play except you have free dac and the chance you get a refund from NQ is zero, even though the european law dictates that also electronic purchases are under law when malpractice or undeliverables are there.

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I extended my main's subscription by a month via a Markee Dragon code so I'm not stuck with a recurring subscription. I was starting to get out of my DU rut, doing some calibrations, some cargo hauling, looking at my prices at M6 again and adjusting some (down), planning my next factory redesign (in PowerPoint), making plans. That was yesterday....

 

With the most recent 'announcement' I'm back at feeling negative about DU again. I don't hate that T1 bots are now gone, I hate how NQ is so gawddarned wishywashy!

 

At this point it just isn't that smart continuing playing working DU, I don't see DU existing for much longer (looking at concurrent players on Steam and the tile growth on Haven week by week). And even if there are some investors willing to continue dumping money in DU, I still have very little confidence in NQ that in another two years we wouldn't see another wipe... My issue is that I'm still not willing to completely let go of DU, is that having an addiction? Any other people having the same issue? That you know you should let go, give up and play something that is actually fun...

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16 minutes ago, Cergorach said:

I extended my main's subscription by a month via a Markee Dragon code so I'm not stuck with a recurring subscription. I was starting to get out of my DU rut, doing some calibrations, some cargo hauling, looking at my prices at M6 again and adjusting some (down), planning my next factory redesign (in PowerPoint), making plans. That was yesterday....

 

With the most recent 'announcement' I'm back at feeling negative about DU again. I don't hate that T1 bots are now gone, I hate how NQ is so gawddarned wishywashy!

 

At this point it just isn't that smart continuing playing working DU, I don't see DU existing for much longer (looking at concurrent players on Steam and the tile growth on Haven week by week). And even if there are some investors willing to continue dumping money in DU, I still have very little confidence in NQ that in another two years we wouldn't see another wipe... My issue is that I'm still not willing to completely let go of DU, is that having an addiction? Any other people having the same issue? That you know you should let go, give up and play something that is actually fun...

 

@Cergorach Not sure how long I have left on these forums given my current negativity... But just in case, I want to take this opportunity to say that I'm really sorry I vented on you the other day... It seems I'm letting my frustration at the game get the better of me! I'm clearly still a bit immature, even at my age.

 

I feel 100% what you're talking about here (see my other post about future wipes being inevitable given current trends). I have a sort of love-hate relationship with this game.

What they initially promised, basically ruined Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen for me. They waved the potential for in-game creative freedom like a pair of coconut-oiled tiddies in front of me and I caved in. I even bought a Mark Dragon ONE YEAR subscription... LOL.


But after all the false promises, I began to turn my back on DU and went back to NMS multiple times and with the added distraction of my third visit to the recently upgraded Night City, I find myself less inclined to play this game than ever.

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17 minutes ago, Jinxed said:

"Knight" Sevi... it's even magically in the name... 

Don't get sucked into the nickname.

For many years I have been passionate about heroic fantasy (and I also do medieval re-enactment irl). So this "title" sounds better on this kind of game than here. But i'm lazy to change name for my virtual activities.

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3 minutes ago, Knight-Sevy said:

Don't get sucked into the nickname.

For many years I have been passionate about heroic fantasy (and I also do medieval re-enactment irl). So this "title" sounds better on this kind of game than here. But i'm lazy to change name for my virtual activities.

 

3f63731700b7a8cb0e4c0d9979c861f5.gif

 

DU has reduced me to sending memes.

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30 minutes ago, Jinxed said:

 

@Cergorach Not sure how long I have left on these forums given my current negativity... But just in case, I want to take this opportunity to say that I'm really sorry I vented on you the other day... It seems I'm letting my frustration at the game get the better of me! I'm clearly still a bit immature, even at my age.

 

I feel 100% what you're talking about here (see my other post about future wipes being inevitable given current trends). I have a sort of love-hate relationship with this game.

What they initially promised, basically ruined Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen for me. They waved the potential for in-game creative freedom like a pair of coconut-oiled tiddies in front of me and I caved in. I even bought a Mark Dragon ONE YEAR subscription... LOL.


But after all the false promises, I began to turn my back on DU and went back to NMS multiple times and with the added distraction of my third visit to the recently upgraded Night City, I find myself less inclined to play this game than ever.

I have been holding my tongue far more than NQ deserves but I will continue to be cautious in what I post here since their rules are not forgiving.  I can't even begin to explain my situation without loudly stomping all over certain vague rules that are swiftly enforced and earn a forum ban in the process, but I digress.

 

 

Quote

In my opinion, if we just happened to have a few dozen volunteers of constructive people who all love some of the same aspects of DU monkeying around with a shared project from a certain updated engine we'd probably have a better product playable in less time than it takes for NQ to 'fess up to outright falsehoods that are clearly visible to some.  I suspect several current and many former players have a dream vision for what DU was supposed to be for each of them.  If we compiled the list in a venue that isn't under NQ and focused on features that overlapped we'd have an achievable central design with a long and clearly visible road map to expand.  I believe the mantra most often quoted to those being pushed out of other social networks was "go build your own."  We'd have to reach out to some of the more talented coders that have left DU at various points in the past. 

 

If I am not on these forums after this post then I probably broke a rule that I wasn't aware of.  My prior back-to-back strikes were... well, I can't say, but it was the final straw that drove me off after 0.23.  I guess some lessons are really slow to sink in and I shouldn't have given NQ my money again. 

 

As much as I loudly protest about people who just want to blow up other people's hard work I have seen some those same players act like great stewards to a caring and cooperative community.  The PvP in and of itself isn't the problem, nor are the players who choose to participate in it.  It's the false advertising of being a sandbox with PvP being optional that is irking me.  It's the lack of AND INTENTIONALLY FALSE communication about plans that have game changing value that push me away from being able to re-ignite my own passion within the game.  Speaking as someone who has been trapped in an abusive relationship, I have no tolerance for the same behavior from someone I have paid to produce a product for me and others to share.

 

build-your-own-dreams-or-someone-else-wi

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